Backup HD

[Lifeisabeach]

Some of us have tried several times using the version of Disk Utility provided with Big Sur 11.3.1 and it absolutely defaults to APFS Case Sensitive. And thats with Spinner hard drives not just SSDs.

Oh, I see what you meant now. "Defaults" to APFS, yes, but one can still change it to HFS+ before starting the format. I thought you meant it was APFS or bust. My bad.

EDIT: I just double-checked because I didn't recall "case-sensitive" being the default, and it's not for me. It defaults to simply "APFS". The case-sensitive alternative is available, but it's not the default for me.

 

[harryb2448]

Big Sur will format the drive APFS regardless what tyou choose. It is automatics as chscag said.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Big Sur will format the drive APFS regardless what tyou choose. It is automatics as chscag said.

Not what I'm experiencing. I'm on Big Sur 11.3.1 and this HDD that I just re-formatted sure looks like it's in HFS+ to me. Maybe there was a bug when BS was first released to explain your experience?

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I'm reading over the latest blog entry on Bombich's website, and they talk a bit about some of the problems with cloning in Big Sur and on the M1 platform in particular. It's a great read to see what the current state is; the problems to be resolved; and where things are going. They mention getting unambiguous confirmation that a failure of the internal drive will result in an unbootable system, regardless of whether or not the external drive is bootable.

Beyond Bootable Backups: Adapting recovery strategies for an evolving platform | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

bombich.com

 

[MacInWin]

They mention getting unambiguous confirmation that a failure of the internal drive will result in an unbootable system, regardless of whether or not the external drive is bootable.

And that is primarily why I am reconsidering my backup strategy. I used the clone as a backup to get me going immediately if the internal drive failed. I could keep going, albeit somewhat less quickly, with my backup clone. But with the SoC approach, an internal drive failure is a failure of the entire system. That means a clone backup won't do what I wanted it for. So, when I get a new system, I'll stop cloning. And that decision means I don't upgrade to version 6 of CCC, either.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

And that is primarily why I am reconsidering my backup strategy. I used the clone as a backup to get me going immediately if the internal drive failed. I could keep going, albeit somewhat less quickly, with my backup clone. But with the SoC approach, an internal drive failure is a failure of the entire system. That means a clone backup won't do what I wanted it for. So, when I get a new system, I'll stop cloning. And that decision means I don't upgrade to version 6 of CCC, either.

Yeah, there's definitely a huge downside for those who work off of these for a living. I wonder if it's something Apple simply failed to consider and will re-engineer it with the successors. It may be worth considering booting off a Thunderbolt drive as the main system drive just to help preserve that internal one. Performance "should" be pretty comparable to working off the internal drive with the right drive, like one of the couple that OWC has available.

 

[MacInWin]

I wonder if it's something Apple simply failed to consider and will re-engineer it with the successors.

I don't think that would be what happened. I think it's more fundamental, that the whole concept of System on a Chip (SoC) that makes up the M1 ties memory so tightly to the rest of the chip that memory failure means total failure. And from reading at Eclectic Light Company, Apple is now putting some really critical stuff on the internal storage without which you cannot boot and which apparently cannot be used from an external, even if it is copied there. Here is one article at ELC: Booting an M1 Mac: external disks and local boot policy

So, for two reasons it is unlikely that Apple will re-engineer or "fix" the situation. The bottom line seems to be that a failure in the storage area of the SoC is a catastrophic failure of the entire SoC and no external boot drive will function. "Repair" will be "replace and restore." I suspect that may be why Apple is extending AppleCare+ so that we can at least have some insurance against that catastrophic failure.

 

[chscag]

I suspect that may be why Apple is extending AppleCare+ so that we can at least have some insurance against that catastrophic failure.

All indications are that's exactly the direction that Apple is going. We have yet to see what the price tag will be for Apple Care + after the initial 3 years are up.

I'm beginning to feel like that famous song Tennessee Ernie Ford used to sing about "Owing one's soul to the company store". (The company store being Apple.)

 

[MacInWin]

Not what I'm experiencing. I'm on Big Sur 11.3.1 and this HDD that I just re-formatted sure looks like it's in HFS+ to me. Maybe there was a bug when BS was first released to explain your experience?

...CLIP

I'm with LIAB on this one. Just used Disk Utility to format a spinner external to HFS+ with no issues. It did offer APFS as the default, but changed to HFS+ when i changed it. Get Info confirms it's HFS+.

 

[chscag]

I don't see any problem. Formatting will default to APFS, however, it can be changed to HFS+ just as we stated and LIAB confirmed.

Using a spinner type drive for Time Machine backups shouldn't matter. Both formats will work okay. Using SSDs for Time Machine backups or cloning, APFS is preferred.

 

[MacInWin]

I was responding, in part, to this post, Charlie:

Hi Dave:

My experience with using the Big Sur Disk Utility app is that it will insist on formatting an external hard drive to APFS Case Sensitive regardless of whether it's a spinner or SSD.

At first I thought I did something wrong when I formatted a Seagate 1TB spinner drive that I wanted to use for Time Machine backups and found out that even though I selected HFS+, it still formatted it to APFS Case Sensitive.

I erased it and tried again. Same result.

I concluded that the Big Sur Disk Utility app was doing that by default. It certainly did not do that when I was using Catalina or Mojave.

The Big Sur version of Disk Utility formatted my spinner to HFS+ just fine. Don't know why you had what you reported, but it's working for me.

 

[chscag]

I should have qualified that statement. It defaulted to APFS when reformatting a drive for Time Machine that was already in use for Time Machine and had been previously formatted to APFS. It would not allow me to reformat it to HFS+.

 

[MacInWin]

Ah, Ok, that makes better sense. Thanks for the clarification.