Apple ARM And What It Means

[Randy B. Singer]

Good article:

Apple ARM And What It Means

Apple, ARM, and What It Means | iFixit News

Why is Apple leaving Intel? How does laptop battery size play into it? And why is this a good thing for Raspberry Pi? Russell Graves explains it all.

www.ifixit.com

 

[ferrarr]

Great read, thanks Randy.

 

[pm-r]

Good article:

Quite interesting. I wish I knew more about how it all works.

I liked his comment which should become a classic:

Except… there’s Apple. Who, on occasion, is totally insane in interesting ways.

- Patrick
=======

 

[DevonG]

Good article and I think the article explains a lot.

Has Apple confirmed whether they will be using some form of x86 emulation?

 

[chscag]

No, but we expect that we will see some sort of virtualization later on. Microsoft has done some work with an ARM surface machine but it hasn't gone anywhere. If MS can ever port Windows to ARM successfully, that will be a game changer.

 

[MacInWin]

If MS can ever port Windows to ARM successfully, that will be a game changer.

I'm not sure they have any incentive to do that, and maybe a good incentive NOT to do that. Yes, Windows on ARM would allow them to have a full power Windows Surface with ARM silicon, which would be pretty sweet for them and the users who want one, but then that same same Windows could run on a Mac ARM MBA, or maybe even an iPad or iPhone. What's in it for them to give such capability to Apple? So they keep the ARM Windows crippled, not robust enough for an ARM laptop like the MBA. No reason to create competition. While Apple may or may not offer emulation of the x86, I think VMWare or Parallels may take on that challenge. Not soon and not efficiently, but enough to sort-of work. Over time maybe the emulators will catch up. Or maybe Intel will slide so far behind Apple Silicon that MS has to take some action to get Windows on ARM because other vendors will want it so they can ditch Intel. It's not so much the raw computing power of the chip, but the power usage that could increase battery life with Apple's Silicon. All Apple Silicon needs to do is match Intel's computing capacity and reduce the power demands and they have a winner.

 

[DevonG]

Yes, Windows on ARM would allow them to have a full power Windows Surface with ARM silicon, which would be pretty sweet for them

It does already exist

Surface Pro X - The totally mobile Pro - Microsoft Surface

Get Surface Pro X, the 2-in-1 laptop with always-on LTE or WiFi, Microsoft SQ® 1 & Microsoft SQ® 2 processors, 13” touchscreen, & all-day battery life.

www.microsoft.com

While Apple may or may not offer emulation of the x86, I think VMWare or Parallels may take on that challenge.

Fully agree. I think in order for them to pull it off they will make a deal with the devil (Intel) and get access to a licensed technology to emulate the CPU's within the virtualization. Though I am off the opinion this would be better then what Micorsoft is now trying to do which is emulate application the ARM desktop.

 

[MacInWin]

It does already exist

Surface Pro X - The totally mobile Pro - Microsoft Surface

Get Surface Pro X, the 2-in-1 laptop with always-on LTE or WiFi, Microsoft SQ® 1 & Microsoft SQ® 2 processors, 13” touchscreen, & all-day battery life.

www.microsoft.com

Yes, but my understanding from reading abut the Surface version is that it is NOT a full implementation of Windows. I don't have a Surface, just know what I read. If it's a full implementation of Win10, then maybe it can be installed on Apple Silicon?

 

[chscag]

As stated, MS is not going to go all out to develop Windows to run on ARM. Especially since the business world, governments, education, legal, etc, etc, are all running Windows on various Intel machines, there isn't going to be much incentive to change that.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

As stated, MS is not going to go all out to develop Windows to run on ARM. Especially since the business world, governments, education, legal, etc, etc, are all running Windows on various Intel machines, there isn't going to be much incentive to change that.

Windows doesn't come from Intel, it comes from Microsoft. Microsoft has little incentive to eschew alternate hardware platforms. The fact that there is a Microsoft Surface based on ARM already shows that they aren't interested in propping up Intel at all costs.

There is plenty of incentive for Microsoft to produce a version of Windows for ARM/Apple Silicon. The first is the same reason that Apple is moving away from Intel...Intel seems to be hitting their head on improving their processors. ARM-based processors may be the future. Microsoft wants their OS to run on whatever hardware platform is going to be popular in the future.

The second is simply money...if Microsoft can sell enough copies of Windows to folks with computers based on Apple Silicon, you can bet that they are going to be selling such a version. Microsoft is a software company, not a hardware company. If there is substantial money to be made selling a version of Windows (especially a version for which most of the development is already done), I think that they are likely to go after it. It's why there is a version of Microsoft Office for the Macintosh.

Only time will tell.

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Windows doesn't come from Intel, it comes from Microsoft. Microsoft has little incentive to eschew alternate hardware platforms. The fact that there is a Microsoft Surface based on ARM already shows that they aren't interested in propping up Intel at all costs.

There is plenty of incentive for Microsoft to produce a version of Windows for ARM/Apple Silicon. The first is the same reason that Apple is moving away from Intel...Intel seems to be hitting their head on improving their processors. ARM-based processors may be the future. Microsoft wants their OS to run on whatever hardware platform is going to be popular in the future.

The second is simply money...if Microsoft can sell enough copies of Windows to folks with computers based on Apple Silicon, you can bet that they are going to be selling such a version. Microsoft is a software company, not a hardware company. If there is substantial money to be made selling a version of Windows (especially a version for which most of the development is already done), I think that they are likely to go after it. It's why there is a version of Microsoft Office for the Macintosh.

Only time will tell.

Charlie didn't say that Intel created Windows, so don't make random assumptions.

Microsoft has already abandoned their ARM version of Windows since it was largely an experiment with their Surface tablets which started out based on the ARM processor and failed miserably. They pivoted to using an Intel processor in them and trying to sell them as laptop replacements instead of tablets anyway.

Microsoft has and will continue to target the x86 (be it Intel or AMD) processors for Windows. The fact that Windows has been able to run on Intel-based Macs for the past few years is a bonus to them and not a driver for any business decision. The vast majority of computers out there are x86 based and run Windows, chasing after the small ARM-based Mac market is foolish on their part.

Additionally, MS has spent SIGNIFICANT amount of money and energy unifying their platforms for Xbox and PCs to allow for unified app development, they aren't going to mess that up now.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Charlie didn't say that Intel created Windows, so don't make random assumptions.

I didn't say that he had. Don't put words in my mouth.

I addressed the implication that Microsoft has some sort of vested interest in sticking with Intel hardware. I don't think that they do, and I think that there have been plenty of indications that Microsoft is willing to follow the money, not Intel.

Microsoft has already abandoned their ARM version of Windows

Do you have a citation for that?

I have a citation for the opposite:

"In a sea change, Apple Inc. and Microsoft Corp. are exiting Intel Corp.’s x86 processor architecture for their personal computers.
... Microsoft is also investing in Arm-based PC chips and PCs for Windows and is planning to remove the software migration barriers by 2021.
"The primary reasons for this transition are lower costs, a reduction in power requirements and a common platform enabling applications to run on smartphones, tablets and PCs."

Exiting x86: Why Apple and Microsoft are embracing the Arm-based PC - SiliconANGLE

Exiting x86: Why Apple and Microsoft are embracing the Arm-based PC - SiliconANGLE

siliconangle.com

Microsoft has and will continue to target the x86...chasing after the small ARM-based Mac market is foolish on their part.

I think that you need to do some reading to get updated on the situation that exists. Intel's processor roadmap may be tapped out. They can't keep up with even some of the Chinese chip manufacturers. Intel might not even be making chips in the future:

Intel Plunges as It Weighs Exit From Manufacturing Chips

Intel Considers the Unthinkable: Not Making Its Own Chips Anymore

Intel Corp. Chief Executive Officer Bob Swan spent almost an hour on Thursday discussing an idea that would once have been unthinkable for the world’s largest semiconductor company: Not manufacturing its own chips. Intel’s shares tumbled as much as 18% Friday morning.Outsourcing is the norm in...

www.bloomberg.com

Additionally, MS has spent SIGNIFICANT amount of money and energy unifying their platforms for Xbox and PCs to allow for unified app development, they aren't going to mess that up now.

Microsoft is going to go where the money is, and what makes sense for the future. Unifying on ARM makes a lot of sense for the future, and might even save Microsoft money. (Read the article that I cited above.)