2011 iMac Problem

[chscag]

Great job of trouble shooting Nick. Keep us posted and snap a picture of that beast when you get all back together.

 

[pigoo3]

Thanks guys!

Looking at the old SATA cable...nothing external to give any clues as to it being bad (of course bad cables can be that way many times). Like Dennis mentioned...maybe the actual cable is fine...but one of the cable connectors was worn, loose, or faulty somehow. I did notice with the new SATA cable...the cable connector to hard drive was much more snug.

As with many computer problems...once the problem is found...it all seems so easy! I literally spent all Friday afternoon, all Saturday, and all Sunday morning working on this. With the disassembly knowledge I have now for 2011 iMac's (and knowing it was the SATA cable)...I could have had this fixed in about 20 minutes.

But again (mentioned above)...this computer had at least one other major complicating issue that I will explain later.

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

Great job of trouble shooting Nick. Keep us posted and snap a picture of that beast when you get all back together.

Well...it's not exactly a beast...or at least not as "beastly" as your 27" iMac! My "Mid-2011" 27" iMac has the 2.7ghz quad-core i5 cpu (6770 gpu, 512meg vram). A little bit slower than your 3.2 ghz 27" iMac (it's a 2012 model right?)!

- Nick

 

[dtravis7]

Well...it's not exactly a beast...or at least not as "beastly" as your 27" iMac! My "Mid-2011" 27" iMac has the 2.7ghz quad-core i5 cpu (6770 gpu, 512meg vram). A little bit slower than your 3.2 ghz 27" iMac (it's a 2012 model right?)!

- Nick

But much nicer than my late 2007 20" iMac! I will take 2! Grin

 

[pigoo3]

There were two other complicating factor's with this computer. One I will discuss here...and one later as part of the iMac's purchase process.

The other hardware complicating factor is/was...this computer has been opened up so many times (by me and others) that the LVDS display cable got damaged. If you want to remove the display panel when working on the iMac...this cable needs to be removed. It is a relatively delicate cable to remove, it is hard to see properly when inserting it back into it's socket on the logic board, and if you have big hands or large fingers...even harder still.

The bottom line is...with the problems I worked on with this computer...I literally disconnected/reconnected this cable at least 20 times...but was probably inside the computer about 40-50 times trying different things. At one point I figured out a way to replace/swap hard drives without needing to remove this display cable.

What I will say is...at some point the cable got damaged (difficult to insert)...and I'm going to say I was probably to blame. Unfortunately I didn't learn this until almost the end of my 3 days of working on the computer (after I installed the new SATA cable).

If we recall...with the 2011 iMac's...there's the problem of getting high fans when a non-Apple HD is installed. Well what I also learned is...if this LVDS cable is damaged...you also get high fans.

- With the non-Apple HD you get a high optical drive fan & a high hard drive fan.
- With the damaged display cable...you get a high cpu fan.

So with these three problems:

- non-Apple HD
- bad SATA cable
- damaged display cable

..logically figuring what was wrong was very very difficult & confusing.

A short note. I did (at a later point) get what I was told was this iMac's original hard drive (from the previous owner)...but I was told it was bad. So even though I had the original HD...when I installed it:

- I still got high fans (probably due to the damaged display cable) which was very confusing.
- And the original hard drive wouldn't boot (probably because of the bad SATA cable)...NOT because the original Apple HD was bad (which by the way was diagnosed by BEST BUY technicians (more on this later).

So of course once I finally installed the new SATA cable (eliminating one of the problem areas)...now any HD (Apple or non-Apple) would boot the computer. By the way...before I installed the new SATA cable...I knew that this iMac's original HD was ok...since I was able to boot some of my other computers with it externally.

I should also mention that I suspected that the display cable was bad fairly early on...since sometimes when I was booting the computer while troubleshooting the HD problem...when I booted the computer...I would get no video. If I wiggled, tapped, or tugged on the display cable...the video would return.

So now with the new SATA cable...the computer was booting fine...but I still was getting high fans (probably due to the damaged video cable...but I didn't know this at this point for sure)...and I was still getting periodic no video.

So due to the high fans...I was still suspecting that what I was told by the previous owners was the original Apple HD...really wasn't an Apple HD at all...but a "plain" non-Apple 1 terabyte Western Digital drive.

So at this point I thought that I would try one of the high fan software solutions for non-Apple HD's in a 2011 iMac:

- HDD Fan Control. Which costs $35 dollars, only has a 1 hour demo mode, and only controls the HD fan & the optical drive fan (not the cpu fan).

iMac Fan Noise Fix | iMac HDD Fan Control

- SSD Fan Control. Which is a free app (I think does the same thing as HDD Fan Control). But again only controls the HD and optical drive fans (not the cpu fan). Even though it's free...I'm sure donations are appreciated.

ssdfanctrl

The reason why I knew that the the cpu fan was the issue...when I installed SDD Fan Control...it reduced the speed of the HD and Optical drive fans...but I still had a high fan noise (which I later found was the cpu fan after installing SMC Fan Control). Which displays all three fan speeds.

The problem with SMC Fan Control is...it cannot reduce the fan speeds...it can only increase them. So if the computer is calling for higher fans speeds...SMC cannot help with this.

ANYWAY! Earlier in this 3-day process I did examine the display cable (when I started getting no video)...but I didn't see anything super obvious. Some of the cable connector pins on the one side looked more shiny...but that was it. Well two days later I looked at the cable connector again (still some shiny pins on the one side)...but again I wasn't 100% sure if it was anything important.

One must realize that there are about 15 pins on this less than 1" wide connector...and each individual pin is probably less than 1mm wide and about 5mm long (very very thin and very very hard to see). I put on a pretty strong pair of reading glasses...and still couldn't examine things as well as I wanted to.

So finally I thought...hey...I have an old microscope in the basement...maybe that would help. Well it did! At 10x magnification...I could clearly see that the one pin (on the far right of the display cable connector) was bent & laying across two adjacent pins...probably causing some sort of short-circuit or erroneous signal to the computer (causing the high cpu fan & periodic no video).

So using the tip of a sewing needle (very very delicately)...tried to straighten the bent pin. These pins are so thin & delicate...that if the pin is bent more than 2-3 times back & forth...will break due to metal fatigue. Let's just say I didn't get it right the first time! I didn't break the pin...but under the microscope I could see a small crack at the base of the pin.

Finally...I installed the display panel & display cable...and BAMM...the computer booted up normally (no high fans, good video). So both the new SATA cable...and the repaired display cable solved all issues.

FYI...the LVDS video cable can be replaced if it should "crap-out" (it is socketed on both ends). Cost is about $30-$45 bucks depending on who you buy it from.

End of the repair chapter of the story (next chapter is the purchase of the iMac).

- Nick

p.s. YIKES...just looked...that was a VERY long post. Sorry.

 

[chscag]

Long post or not, it was good reading Nick. Keep sending us updates, very informative.

Just for info sake Nick, the 2013 iMacs only have one fan and I believe the same is true for the 2012 models. I found that out when I first ran my new late 2013 27" iMac and noticed that two of the fan readings in my iStat Menus app were missing. I then noticed that the fan was labeled "Main" and only one reading was visible. So apparently with the newer thinner chassis, Apple has provided only one fan to cool both the CPU and HDD. Kind of makes sense since there's no optical drive to cool.

 

[dtravis7]

Yes for sure keep any updates coming! Very interesting and informative!

 

[pigoo3]

Thanks guys. Maybe another "story installment" tonight.

Charlie. Thanks for the fan info. I always like it when things are simplified. Fewer complexities = fewer parts to go wrong/replace. I remember the last model Powermac G4's (Mirror Drive Doors)...and the Powermac G5's...had tons of fans. So much complexity.

- Nick

 

[Poolman]

I am completely lost inside a computer with anything above swapping ram but enjoyed this thread. I know somewhere down the road I'll open up the Imac like I've done with my G4 and sure I'll be referencing this thread,,,,,,,, 30 or 40 times lol.
Thanks for the writeup Nick

 

[pigoo3]

,,,,,,,, 30 or 40 times lol.
Thanks for the writeup Nick

It's the scientist in me. Try something…put it back together. Try another thing…put it back together. Etc. Etc. BELIEVE ME…I wasn't enjoying it! But I did learn a lot.

Glad you found it interesting.

- Nick

 

[Poolman]

Years ago every time a vcr would fail I would replace it then take the old one apart. I don't think I ever got one back together and working but that never stopped me from trying. I've done a few things on the old G4 with success but if it didn't work no big loss as the selling price for these is pretty low, so far so good. Like you I just have a curiosity not so much as to how it works but more as can I take it apart and make it better. Gotta say I've had some pretty impressive cars doing that.

 

[pigoo3]

Gotta say I've had some pretty impressive cars doing that.

I work on cars too. So much easier than computers…just "heavier lifting"!

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

Quick note/word of warning. After seeing how long this post became...I would STRONGLY suggest getting a beverage (not if you're on a laptop) and/or a sandwich...because you may be a while!

Ok...so here's what should probably be the final chapter for this computer story.

Firstly...it's a computer (2011 27" iMac) I found on Craig's List way back on January 5th (about 3 weeks ago). Everything was supposed to be fine with it. It did have two cosmetic issues...a ding near the superdrive slot, and a couple issues with the iMac's removable glass panel (a crack in the glass at one corner & a flake/chip of glass missing on one of the edges). Nothing larger than a U.S. 10 cent coin...and not in the display area (just in the black bezel area of the glass).

So I was like...not a big deal...as long as the computer worked 100% and the selling price was adjusted for the cosmetic issues. Computer even came with the original box (which I usually find is a good sign)...since the boxes for these larger computers (iMac's & Mac Pro's)...are very large & take up a lot of space (compared to MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air's).

The seller also mentioned being open to trades/partial trades...so after a few e-mails the seller said they were interested in some woodworking power equipment I had (and was willing to part with) and a MIG welder. Seller wanted to see some photos...so I went to the trouble to getting these things "unburied"...cleaned up...and some photos taken. After seeing the photos...the seller said that they were VERY interested in one or both of them. Well...long story short...seller changed their mind...and just wanted to do a cash deal (so irritating)!

Of course I'm trying to do this deal as quickly as possible...since the asking price was very good (why I was interested in the first place)...before other folks start getting involved. I eventually agree on a cash price...and I then find out the next day that the seller took the computer to Best Buy to have the hard drive wiped (seller said that they had some sort of Best Buy warranty...which they didn't I found out later).

I said to the seller that I could have met them at their place...and helped them wipe the drive & install the OS...and be done in 30-60 minutes. But was told they already took it to Best Buy...and it would be done by Wednesday (which would be day #4 of this transaction). Of course give a well-priced computer on Craig's List 4 days...and everyone & their brother will have e-mailed the seller about it...and I pretty much (at this point) figured this deal was done. Someone will probably offer a higher more $$$ than the asking price...and I wasn't about to get into a bidding war!

So I contacted the seller on Wednesday (day #4)...and I'm told that the computer isn't done yet. The seller said that they would contact me when they got the computer back from Best Buy...and that they would give me first shot at it...since I was the first person to contact them about it. I said GREAT (but I wasn't holding my breath)...since in my experience buying & selling on Craig's List...folks can be pretty "flakey"...and not always do what they say (especially if someone offers them more money for an item).

Anyway...so my search goes on for an iMac computer. If folks recall...I started another thread a couple weeks back...mentioning that I purchased a "Late 2009" 21" iMac. The purchase of this 2009 21" iMac was on Friday Jan. 10th (which would have been day #6 of the 2011 27" iMac story).

At this point I sort of had given up on the 2011 27" iMac...since it was now almost 5 days since that seller took the 27" iMac to Best Buy. And figured it shouldn't even take inept Best Buy 5 days to erase the HD & reinstall the OS...so the computer was probably sold to someone else. Also...this 2009 21" iMac I purhcased would fit my needs just fine...and was only $270 bucks!

Anyway...the seller of the 2011 27" iMac (unbelievably) contacts me on January 18th (12 days AFTER they took it to Best Buy...and day #13 of this transaction)...to say that if I was still interested in it, that I could come by the next day to get it. So the next day (after a bunch of e-mails)...and day #14...I meet the seller at a McDonald's to purchase the computer. I should mention that during all our previous e-mails...I was lead to believe that we would be meeting at the seller's home (actually mentioned in the messages)...so I was sort of confused why we were all of a sudden meeting at McDonald's. Of course McDonald's is a safer place to meet...and a great place to meet if purchasing a laptop. But hauling a LARGE 27" iMac into a McDonald's (that needs to be plugged in)...does draw a bit of attention from the other customers!lol

So we get to the McDonald's to meet with the seller (my wife was with me...I bribed her to come along by agreeing to go to COSTCO afterwards). I meet the seller...and we go inside (this is day #15 of this deal). We boot up the computer (Happy Mac sound)...and I seeing the flashing folder with the "?" mark on it. So now I'm thinking...this computer either has a bad HD...or the OS is missing from the HD. Since I wasn't expecting any issues...I didn't bring a bootable external HD, OS disk, or bootable USB drive. I'm also thinking that this computer just came from Best Buy...so why are there issues with it??

I ask the seller if they at least tested the computer after getting it back from Best Buy & before meeting with me...they said no (again very confusing). Just makes sense to do this (very easy...very fast).

So I'm thinking what do I do?:

- Forget about the whole thing and go home (remember I already recently purchased the other 2009 21" iMac). And the seller has actually been a BIG pain in the butt anyway!
- Stick with it...since this 2011 27" iMac is selling for a good price.

So I decide to "stick with it" (already with the seller)...and see what I can do.

- Try rebooting the computer a couple times (no luck).
- Try holding down the "Option" button while booting. I know there's only one drive to boot from...but what the heck.
- Try holding down the "D" button (which forces the computer to boot from the internal HD).

Nothing works. Then I try to rebooting from the recovery partition...and we get the spinning "Earth Globe" and the internet recovery progress bar...and I think...ok great...something! Unfortunately this doesn't work...since you have to log into the McDonald's WiFi network. And since the McDonald's "splash page" requires you to click on a "agree to terms" button...logging into the McDonald's WiFi doesn't work via the Mac Internet Recovery ability.

So one last time reboot attempt before calling it quits...and what happens...MAGICALLY the computer boots from the internal HD! I "play" with the computer:

- Check the specs
- Check the "About This Mac"...and the "System Report" page.
- Log into the McDonald's WiFi, launch Safari, and surf some internet pages to assure that the WiFi is fine.

I then (as one last check)...reboot the computer 3 times...I then Shut Down the computer...unplug it from the power for 5 minutes...plug it back in...and start up the computer. All looks fine. At this point I have no reason to believe that there's anything wrong with the computer...so I pay the seller...and we head our separate ways.

A couple hours later we get home...I fire up the computer...and what happens...(happy Mac boot sound)...but I'm getting the flashing folder with the question-mark...bummer! Obviously I have a lot more "tools" at home to investigate the problem. After a lot of testing...I find that I can (sporadically) get the computer to boot from the internal HD...and that it will boot fine from an external HD or bootable USB stick.

So I figure...the seller said that they had the Best Buy warranty...so why not let Best Buy figure it out. I contact the seller...and they agree to meet with me at Best Buy the next day (I figure that this is a great sign...that the seller is willing to work with me after the sale). Most Craig's List sellers wouldn't even return an e-mail (after the sale)...especially if they knew something was wrong with the computer.

So I meet with the seller at Best Buy the next day (day #16). I find out 3 things:

1. The seller does not have the Geek Squad warranty (which covers hardware)...they only have some sort of Best Buy "service" warranty...that only covers software issues...and "customer confusion" issues (aka questions).
2. The seller actually had a new 1tb HD installed by Best Buy (when they initially brought the computer to Best Buy for the HD erase & OS reinstall). Best Buy apparently said that their diagnostics indicated a bad HD.
3. Best Buy are a bunch of jerks (not so much the people at this point...just the Best Buy policies). I actually have never had to deal with Best Buy personally previously...just know what I've heard from other folks.

So the computer is left with Best Buy to be checked out again. They installed the new HD...it didn't work...and supposibly they test all computers for proper operation BEFORE it leaves the store...so they need to make the intial repair work. Again this is Monday (day #16).

One other point of confusion/hassle I should mention. Since this computer was repaired by Best Buy (under the previous owners name/account)...even though I am now the iMac's owner...Best Buy won't make me the primary contact person when the repairs are completed. They say they need to contact the previous owner when the repairs are completed...then I have to "trust" that the previous owner will contact me. Who knows...the previous owner once contacted...could go to Best Buy...pickup the computer..and never tell me anything. Then they have the computer & my money! Of course I'm not very happy with this!!!

So 2 days later (Wednesday...day #18)...I get a message from the sellers (thank god) that they heard from Best Buy...and I'm supposed to call Best Buy. I call Best Buy...and find out that they installed a 2nd HD...and the computer still has problems. I ask a bunch of questions (since I kinda do know a fair amount of how things work).

- Best Buy: "To have two brand new HD's installed & both be bad is sort of a statistical long shot". I agree with them.
- Nick: "What do you think the problem is?"
- Best Buy: "A bad logic board."
- Me: I'm thinking 'WHAT'???
- Nick: "Did you guys confirm this via a software diagnostics test?"
- Best Buy: "No"
- Nick: I then say..."The computer boots and operates fine from a bootable external HD or USB drive."
- Best Buy: "Yes...but the USB ports are a different part of the logic board than where the internal HD transfers info from."

I don't disagree with Best Buy at this point...but I'm not really convinced that all of a sudden the iMac has a bad logic board after all of the testing I've done...AND since Best Buy did not use any diagnostic software to confirm the bad logic board. AND remembering that AFTER Best Buy installed the first new HD...the computer wasn't supposed to leave the store non-working (unless they told me/us this)...which they didn't. So it was supposed to be 100% working after the 1st new HD was installed.

So after the 2nd new HD install...now it has a bad logic board???...hmmm...I'm not convinced. Anyway...I go pick up the computer Wednesday night (day #18). I get it home...boot it up...and get the flashing folder. I then boot it from my bootable OS install USB...launch Disk Utility...and what do I find??...the darn 2nd new HD was not formated...it was not partitioned...and no OS was installed on it...WHAT THE HECK!!! Again...INEPT Best Buy!!!

So I format, partition, and install the OS on the 2nd new HD (hoping this will fix things). I boot the computer after the OS install...but no luck...still the flashing folder!

Next day (Day #19...Thursday Jan. 23rd)...I contact the seller and ask them if they still had the iMac's original Apple hard drive (Best Buy's policy is to always return the owners old HD). They said yes...and that I was welcome to it. I figured since the Apple HD is supposed to have the proper firmware installed on it...this may halp with the troubleshooting. So I meet with the seller that evening...and get the original Apple HD.

Next day (Day #20...Friday Jan. 24th) I start the "serious" troubleshooting at home (details in the post above). After I finish Friday evening...I contacted the seller to say..."The iMac has SERIOUS problems...what can we do?" What I'm REALLY saying is...I've spent enough time on this computer...I want my money back.

Realize that myself and the seller have swapped about 10+ messages since I bought the computer at McDonald's 6 days earlier...that we met after the sale at Best Buy...and the seller has always been friendly & responded pretty quickly to all messages.

Well...the seller never responded to my last message. So I pretty much figured that I am now the owner of the iMac...like it or not! Of course as you guys read in my troubleshooting post above...the MAIN PROBLEM was the SATA cable. Not the HD as Best Buy initially indicated..and not the LOGIC BOARD...as Best Buy indicated after installing the 2nd HD!!! Again...INEPT BEST BUY!!!

So conclusions:

1. BEST BUY SUCKS!!!
2. This was the longest & most drawn out Craig's List computer purchase I've ever made!!! Most purchases are usually a 1-2 day affair.
3. I learned a lot from all of the iMac troubleshooting.
4. There was a "Happy Ending". I figured out the computers main issue (bad SATA cable)...and I spent zero additional $$$ to do it (just a lot of my weekend time). Luckily it's the Winter...or the grass would have gone uncut that weekend!

Final details on the transaction (I never mentioned the asking price/price I paid for it).

- Mid-2011 27" iMac, 2.5ghz i5 quad-core cpu, 4gig ram, 1tb HD
- Original Box
- Bluetooth keyboard & bluetooth Magic Mouse
- Magic Trackpad
- Aluminum Apple remote
- Original 1tb Apple HD that I eventually got from the seller.
- Two brand new 1tb hard drives from Best Buy.

These are the two HD's Best Buy tried to install...and it's Best Buys policy to return all old HD's to the customer. Best Buy sells these 1tb HD's for $75 each (which is a pretty high price)...and I got two of them! This is also where I got the new SATA cable from (in the box with the new HD's).

Final price I paid...$600. A very good price for a mid-2011 27" iMac...with a couple dings to the iMac case...and a couple issues with the display glass.

If I had a "crystal ball" that could tell me the future...would I do it all over again? Probably not. But then that is life...sometimes it's a struggle...and you learn a lot from it. It was also a VERY unusual Craig's List computer transaction (definitiely an anomaly)...so I won't shy away from more CL computer transactions in the future. It all ended well.

Thanks for reading. Quite a "tome" of a post!!!

- Nick

p.s. I'm not proof-reading this post (like I usually do). So if there are any spelling or grammatical errors...I "ain't" correcting them!!!

 

[dtravis7]

WOW! Great story Nick. Thanks for writing all that. Very interesting and confirms my overall knowledge of Best Buy!

So glad it all worked out in the end. With 3 1TB drives that makes the deal even better at the price you paid!

Again thanks for taking the time to post it all.

 

[chscag]

Hey Nick... enjoyed your novel. You might have missed your calling.... ;P

After reading what you went through, I'm not sure I would have had the patience to deal with it the way you did. I can remember my days of electronic repair with the military, private sector, and US Government civilian work, and the many hours spent trouble shooting and repairing "dogs". Maybe that's why I have all this gray hair (what's left of it). LOL!

Anyway, your novel had a happy ending and everyone loves a happy ending! ;D

 

[pigoo3]

WOW! Great story Nick. Thanks for writing all that. Very interesting and confirms my overall knowledge of Best Buy!

Thanks Dennis.

I really have no "axe to grind" with Best Buy. I was being totally objective & basing my comments on my Best Buy experience.

Something I didn't mention in my long posts above. I did say that I probably need to blame myself for the bent pins on the display cable. What I didn't say was...the socket on the logic board I think had some bent areas on it BEFORE I opened the computer up...and it may have been these bent areas on the socket (which made the insertion of the display cable more difficult). So it could have been the slightly bent socket that caused the bent display cable pins.

Was this Best Buy's fault...I'm not sure. But Best Buy was inside this computer at least two times before me. And I did notice the bent socket fairly early on in my troubleshooting...and tried to correct it as best as possible.

I also didn't mention that there are 8 screws that hold the display panel in place. When I opened up the computer the first time...only 6 screws were there (two missing). I shook the computer to make sure they weren't inside somewhere. Always a BAD idea to have loose screws "floating" around inside of a computer!!!

Also...of the six display panel screws...5 of holes they go into were stripped. In these iMac's there seems to be a plastic chassis (instead of metal)...so the screws go into plastic (which is easier to strip)...so technicians need to be very careful not to use too much torque on the screws. Also...of the two HD hold-down bracket screws...one of them was stripped (the hole).

So again...Best Buy was in this computer at least 2x before me. So either Best Buy lost two of the display screws (or forgot to reinstall them)...and stripped all of the screw holes I mentioned...or someone else did.

So possibily more strikes against Best Buy!

Thanks again for reading,

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

Hey Nick... enjoyed your novel. You might have missed your calling.... ;P

They say "it's never too late"!

After reading what you went through, I'm not sure I would have had the patience to deal with it the way you did.

When I got the e-mail from the seller after almost 2 weeks after I first contacted him (and after I already purchased the 2009 21" iMac)...I really was on the fence about moving forward with the deal. But $600 for a 27" 2011 iMac is an awesome price...and hard to walk away from.

Much of my troubles were after the sale (all of the troubleshooting)...and at that point...I was pretty much committed (seller probably wouldn't have returned my money).

Anyway, your novel had a happy ending and everyone loves a happy ending! ;D

Yes... a Happy Ending is a great place to be!

And there's a bit of "screw-you" satisfaction towards the seller...since I do believe that at some point in this transaction (or the reason why the computer was for sale in the first place)...the seller knew something was wrong with the computer! And because the seller never returned my last message to them.

But all is now good!

- Nick