SURVEY: Has your hard drive failed? Are you dissatisfied with Apple?

[ectheatreaubs]

Hey all, I am brand new at this thing, and am a relatively new mac user (I got my powerbook last August).

Just last weekend my hard drive failed. It said that there was a fatal error on the drive and to back up as much data as I could. I had a friend of mine try to save it via a firewire connection (which is all I could open the computer up to since it was getting stuck on the gray opening screen). Much to my dismay he couldn't save it and it died. I sent it back, but it is really performing slowing and doesn't seem to be "back to the original state." Apple fixed my computer (replaced the hard drive) but I lost everything. Then they proceed to blame me and tell me that they fulfilled their responsibility - end of story. Well, as a college student who has just been screwed out of a lot of money (and they're still asking for more), I feel that other actions need to be taken.

So anyway, the REAL reason for the post is that not only have I been very dissatisfied and disappointed with Apple and their customer service, I have a feeling that this is not just a problem and sentiment unique to me. So I wanted to take a survey to see how many people this has happened to. I plan to file a complaint to the Attorney General which will cause there to be a formal investigation into wrong-doing.

I would appreciate any and all responses with your stories - what happened, what system you're using, their response, and your concerns (you can include your name if you want). I am trying to educate myself enough to make an impact.

As a college student, I may not have the amount of money it takes to be heard, but I still have a voice and I will do what it takes to find some sort of recompense for this inconvenience, this manipulation, this wrong-doing. Please help! You can email me at [email protected] or respond to this post. Thanks!

 

[lil]

I'm real sorry here, but there comes a time when you have to take responsibility for backing up.

Hard drives fail, it's one of those really nasty things. Unfortunately Apple like any manufacturer cannot predict the life of a hard disk. I don't know why it may be slower... That is a pain for sure.

What would have happened if you bought a PC laptop and the hard disk had failed on that in the same time frame?

I know you spent a fair whack of money and for that you do expect something really **** good, but a few dollars/pounds more, you could have even got blank CD-Rs/DVD-Rs to back up your data.

Sorry to be harsh but I have never understood the reasons not to back up, I guess I have been using computers too long -- I have only ever had one hard disk die on me, that was some years ago now, on a ThinkPad.

Vicky

 

[iNAP]

questions are asked in this poll but there are no yes or no answers What am I missing?

 

[rberry88]

questions are asked in this poll but there are no yes or no answers What am I missing?

My question exactly, is this a survey or a poll? A survey doesn't work well in poll format, IMHO.

 

[rman]

The way I see it you don't have a leg to stand on, because you shot your self in the leg. Back ups are a way of life with computers. That is the first rule of computing, you are no better than your back up. According your own statements. Apple will replace the hard drive due to your extended waranttee. So there is no problem there. No one can guarantee your data. That is why a back ups are so important. You have learned a valuable lesson the hard way.

 

[CJ064]

i have had mine for about a year and the only problem i had was a key sticking. It somehow fixed itself and hasn't been a problem since.

 

[jn4jenny]

The way I see it you don't have a leg to stand on, because you shot your self in the leg. Back ups are a way of life with computers. That is the first rule of computing, you are no better than your back up. According your own statements. Apple will replace the hard drive due to your extended waranttee. So there is no problem there. No one can guarantee your data. That is why a back ups are so important. You have learned a valuable lesson the hard way.

I totally agree. My PB hard drive failed several weeks ago, but I had backed up all of the truly important data on flash drives. Having the PB gone for repair was a real inconvenience, but if people don't back up their data regularly, that's not Apple's fault.

You state that you are out "lots of money" on this venture. Let me guess--you didn't buy AppleCare? It's hard to feel sorry for computer users, PC or Mac, who had the option of purchasing a flat-rate warranty and didn't do so and then are angry that they had to pay extraordinary repair rates. *I* didn't buy AppleCare, but that was my personal decision and I take responsibility for the stupidity of it; I am definitely not going to cry to the attorney general about how I didn't buy AppleCare and therefore had to pay a lot of money to get my PB fixed. That was my bad.

If you genuinely believe that your PB is running slower than it used to, it's not like Apple is your only option. Send it to MacResQ or TechRestore for diagnostics and see if they can tell you what the nature of the problem is. At least then you'll have some ammo to go back to Apple and say "Look people, this is what's wrong with my machine, and you need to fix it." That should be covered by your parts and labor warranty from your last Apple repair.

And while you're at it, hop on the backup train pronto. Get an external hard drive, or at least burn your important stuff to CD's, DVD's, or flash drives. And download AppleJack, which can usually warn you about problems on your disk well before hard drive failure. Thanks to AppleJack, I knew that my hard drive was going rotten a whole week before it actually failed.

 

[caribiner23]

This isn't a poll-- at best, it's a list of grievances from a first-time poster. At worst, it's a troll from a first-time poster.

I didn't respond to the poll at all, despite some problems with my ibook which Apple took care of. Their responsibility is limited and I certainly can't argue any points based on my lack of backups or warranty.

 

[austing]

first my LCD failed and i had to pay 1000 dollars to fix it then my HD failed, luckily apple care covered that and just yesterday my cd/dvd drive just failed and is saying cannot read dvd drive pulg it in if it is external. hopefully my apple care will cover this and it will be a shore time to fix.

 

[ectheatreaubs]

Well I guess I'm in the wrong

Well, I wish I had the money just to drop on backing up 70+ GB of my stuff. [$150-300 on an external hard drive (http://www.flash-memory-store.com/external-usb-hard-drives.html) $210 for CD-RW's (http://totalmedia.com/catalog/catalog_home.asp?CatID=1630&SortCol=4&CID=&OID=-1) $50 per USB thumb drive (512MB)]

All I'm saying is that for the amount I paid for the computer, I should be able to count on the product lasting longer than a year. Whether you want to see this or not, it's all a bunch of legal bull**** that will always protect the company, not the consumer. They care about you until you've spent the money...after that, they find ways to screw you out of more money.

I HAVE the extended AppleCare warranty and they have replaced the hard drive. However, the replacement "may be manufactured from new, refurbished, or serviceable used parts. The replacement product and parts will be functionally equivalent to the replaced products or parts...Apple reserves the right to change at any time the method by which Apple may provide repair or replacement service to you, and your Covered Equipment's eligibility to receive a particular method of service "(http://www.apple.com/legal/applecare/app.html) So, in other words they could have repaired my machine with a used drive that, at the time, seemed to be working equivilant to the replaced part. They also have no commitment to me to use the best part available even if they say they will since they can change it at any time.

Did you ever think that they have to offer the warranty because they know that the products are going to fail? And along with that, isn't it most often that they fail just after the warranty is expired? Look through some of the other posts and see how many had this happen out of warranty. The only thing that Apple (or any other company out there) has to do is make sure that the majority of their products last longer than the standard warranty period. If they can do that, they will lose much less money and continue to make profits.

You know, a couple of weeks ago, I was like most of you that have responded to this post. I probably would have even said the same things in response. Why not, since my PowerBook was running beautifully and I was so pleased with it? But until you have had this happen to you, it's impossible to understand. Guess I've learned my lesson about backing up my entire computer's existence for the future.

 

[technologist]

Well, I wish I had the money just to drop on backing up 70+ GB of my stuff. [$150-300 on an external hard drive (http://www.flash-memory-store.com/external-usb-hard-drives.html) $210 for CD-RW's (http://totalmedia.com/catalog/catalog_home.asp?CatID=1630&SortCol=4&CID=&OID=-1) $50 per USB thumb drive (512MB)]

All I'm saying is that for the amount I paid for the computer, I should be able to count on the product lasting longer than a year. Whether you want to see this or not, it's all a bunch of legal bull**** that will always protect the company, not the consumer. They care about you until you've spent the money...after that, they find ways to screw you out of more money.

I HAVE the extended AppleCare warranty and they have replaced the hard drive. However, the replacement "may be manufactured from new, refurbished, or serviceable used parts. The replacement product and parts will be functionally equivalent to the replaced products or parts...Apple reserves the right to change at any time the method by which Apple may provide repair or replacement service to you, and your Covered Equipment's eligibility to receive a particular method of service "(http://www.apple.com/legal/applecare/app.html) So, in other words they could have repaired my machine with a used drive that, at the time, seemed to be working equivilant to the replaced part. They also have no commitment to me to use the best part available even if they say they will since they can change it at any time.

Did you ever think that they have to offer the warranty because they know that the products are going to fail? And along with that, isn't it most often that they fail just after the warranty is expired? Look through some of the other posts and see how many had this happen out of warranty. The only thing that Apple (or any other company out there) has to do is make sure that the majority of their products last longer than the standard warranty period. If they can do that, they will lose much less money and continue to make profits.

You know, a couple of weeks ago, I was like most of you that have responded to this post. I probably would have even said the same things in response. Why not, since my PowerBook was running beautifully and I was so pleased with it? But until you have had this happen to you, it's impossible to understand. Guess I've learned my lesson about backing up my entire computer's existence for the future.

I'm sorry for your difficulties, but things like this are not unique to Apple or Dell or anyone else. I invite you to call 1-800-WWW-DELL or 1-800-369-1409 (Gateway sales) or 1-800-752-0900 (HP sales) and ask about their warranty policies.

I do believe that the quality and lifespan of computers has decreased over the last 10 or 15 years. I understand that at least some of this is due to the fact that the components used in computers, as well as the processes used to manufacture those components, are ten times as complex as they were. Meaning there are ten times as many things that could go wrong.

In exchange, electronics are much more powerful and inexpensive than they were a decade ago, or even five years ago. You could easily buy two midrange computers today (in 2005 dollars) for what one would have cost in 1995 (in 1995 dollars!)

 

[caribiner23]

First of all, of course a company's warranty is going to protect the company first. It's a hard fact of commerce: companies do this so that they can compete while offering the minimum of coverage once the product leaves their control. This is why in the last 10-20 years, manufacturer's warranties have dropped from 1-2 years to as low as 60 days. (I bought a brand-new Sony product a month ago that has a 30 day manufacturer's warranty!)

Apple sells AppleCare in the same way that auto manufacturers (at least here in the US) sell "extended warranties." It's not really a "warranty"-- it's an insurance policy. Your theory that they sell AppleCare "because they know they'll fail" is false: no company would offer a service program on something they know will fail-- that's a money losing proposition. Extended warranties like AppleCare are in place because the company has the products' service history right at their fingertips, and they're banking on the fact that it won't fail, thus ensuring profit for the company. They don't sell AppleCare just to be considered nice guys.

As for the replacement parts: I challenge you to find a single company which will guarantee that they will replace defective parts with brand-new, out of the box parts. IBM/Lenovo says they will use "new or refurbished parts." Dell says the same thing. So does HP/Compaq. It's a standard industry practice. Even on auto insurance policies here in the US, most state that in the event of an accident, "compatible" and possibly refurbished parts will be used to repair your car-- if you want original manufacturer parts, you will have to pay the difference.

As for products' failing right after the warranty ends, that's Murphy's Law.

I understand your frustration completely, but at the same time you have to be realistic about the world we live in. Companies are not in the business of keeping every customer happy-- they're in the business of making money and keeping enough customers happy to build a reputation and stay in business. I am certain you could find a set of customers-- whether its Apple, IBM, HP, Compaq, Dell-- and find groups of people who have had similar problems to yours.

And while I realize that having the media available to back up your data is expensive, it's something every single computer owner should take into consideration at the time they buy their computer-- especially if their primary computer is a mobile one (what if you dropped it on the ground and it was run over?).

Good luck.

 

[schweb]

Electronics can be defective and sometimes break before the end of warranty. To expect otherwise is foolish.

The fact you didn't back up your data is your own fault. Cost or not, it's not Apple's issue. It's your own responsibility to take precautions, if you choose not to, then only are to blame.

Apple fixed your drive. They fulfilled their end of the bargain. I'm lost as to why you'd post this rant other than the fact that you don't want to take responsibility for your mistake of not backing up your data.

 

[i-VTEC]

Sorry about what happened ectheatreaubs.

A fried told me after finding out about my problems with Best Buy/Goodyear...that I WILL NOT WIN, these people will do whatever it takes to protect themselves...!!! He's right, after months of arguing with Managers, accepted the lost. I'm just not going to deal with them anymore.

How do Hard Drives fail? I had my Dell 8100 for almost 7 years and happy to say I had no problems. Are Mac's different...got me worried about my Mac Mini

 

[schweb]

How do Hard Drives fail? I had my Dell 8100 for almost 7 years and happy to say I had no problems. Are Mac's different...got me worried about my Mac Mini

It has nothing to do with whether it's a Mac or not. Only a few companies make hard drives for every computer maker. I had a Dell also and the hard drive and case fan went bad after only 2 months.

Electronic components are finicky things. I'm sure everyone has had some electronic gizmo break or not function correctly before the warranty is up. That's the point of a warranty. To fix or replace material defects in the manufacturing process.

 

[lil]

Fact: Apple using refurbished service parts is by no means unique to Apple, even the so-called Rolls Royce of warranty depots - IBM EZ-Serve for their desktops and ThinkPads (well Lenovo's now) have the same policy.

48GB Drive failed in a friend's T23 last year, in warranty, replacement drive was a 60gb drive as the 48s were no longer made and it was a refurbished part.

has it failed, no.

So Apple is not the only one doing this, most computer manufacturers in fact all I know of use this policy.

Vicky

 

[lil]

Also by nature of what a forum is for, you will hear more voices of things not working or discontent than those that don't have any problems.

This is not an Apple issue per se, take a look at http://forum.thinkpads.com - same situation, great laptops but lots of issues being raised (I expect, it's a long time since I looked on there)

It doesn't mean because the forum has a high concentration of "I have a problem..." equates to a bad product, it's a nature of a forum, to request help where there are problems.

E.g.: you won't hear the many hundreds of members on here write in to say "Today I turned on my Mac and it worked."

Vicky :flower:

 

[ed724]

Do what I and I'm sure allot of other folks do on this forum. FIX YOUR OWN PC. If you don't know how to, LEARN. You're a college student, right? So you must know how to learn. If you did a little research,(I understand college students do that in college) you could have saved youself the $349 on the extra warranty price and used it to buy the part you needed for less money and fix it yourself. Barring that, a little research before you bought it would have informed you that:

1. Laptops are expensive to fix (Maybe that's why you chose to buy the Ext Warr.)
2. Laptops are prone to break due to the fact that they're "portable"
3. Warranties are provided to make sure the customer gets a "reasonable" amount of usage from the product they're buying.

By the way, had you bought your own replacement HD, It would have up to a 5yr warranty and you could be absolutely sure it would be NEW.

I can't remember how much rant and raves I had to listen to when I was working as tech support for "Computer City" years ago. Fortunately I made my way to the back as a bench tech and didn't have to deal with all the sillyness anymore.
Recently my DVD/R drive in my PB failed and the computer was only 10mo old. Rather than go through the hassles with getting it fixed by Apple, I bought my own replacement NEW DVD/+-R 8X,DL (better than original) and installed it myself.
Cost - $129.00. Not that expensive by todays standards.

70gb of data? Good lord, what is it you're working on? If you're including all the apps
and the OS you have installed then you're way off. You only need to back data that you create that's essential to you. If you think about it carefully, you probably only needed to backup maybe 10gb. If you have 70gb worth of itunes on your PB then you're probably not spending enough time studying.

ed724

 

[sursuciofla]

I never buy extended warranties because the money I save over time from non-failing equipment will be worth more than what the total amount of extended warranty service I would get in my lifetime. If it lasts a year I am happy and if it fails right after then that is my problem. Chances are that if you make it out of the first year with no problems the likelihood of a failure not due to just old age is pretty slim. HDDs fail and there is no escaping that. Back up your stuff and deal with it. You have to just spend the money or risk losing your time and effort. Buy some cheap DVD-Rs and just suck it up. We are David and the companies are Goliath and that is the way it is always going to be unless you are a high Exec of a big company. Electronics fail, nothing is perfect and I have rarely seen myself get shafted by a warranty. They do have to protect themselves just like you have to take the measures you feel you have to take to protect yourself. Like I said I protect myself by not buying warranties and I also have the option of not buying a product AT ALL. If you want to 100% protect yourself then don't go to bed with them, that is your choice.

 

[dtravis7]

Apple uses the same brand/Brands of Hard Drives as the other computer people do. EVERY brand of Hard Drive fails. Seagate at this point in time seems more reliable overall than some other brands but even they sometimes fail. I just bought a brand new Seagate that right of the box failed it's S.M.A.R.T. Testing. I took it back for an exchange. I could go well Seagate is no good because of this one drive, but that is not true at all. HARD DRIVES FAIL. Some sooner than others. That is a Fact and NOT APPLES fault in ANY WAY. It was already pointed out by another poster that Apple uses the same brand of drives in it's Powerbooks that IBM uses in their Thinkpads.