• Welcome to the Off-Topic/Schweb's Lounge

    In addition to the Mac-Forums Community Guidelines, there are a few things you should pay attention to while in The Lounge.

    Lounge Rules
    • If your post belongs in a different forum, please post it there.
    • While this area is for off-topic conversations, that doesn't mean that every conversation will be permitted. The moderators will, at their sole discretion, close or delete any threads which do not serve a beneficial purpose to the community.

    Understand that while The Lounge is here as a place to relax and discuss random topics, that doesn't mean we will allow any topic. Topics which are inflammatory, hurtful, or otherwise clash with our Mac-Forums Community Guidelines will be removed.

Probably the funniest news story I've read in a while.

Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
101
Points
63
Location
arizona desert
Your Mac's Specs
2007 iMac 10.6.8 | 2009 MacBook uni 10.6.8 | 2010 MBA 10.8.5 |
Does the German army stock diapers? :dummy:
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
I can't decide which is worse. The fact they sent a draft notice to a baby or the fact that they even have a draft in Germany....
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
939
Reaction score
84
Points
28
Location
Akron, Ohio
Your Mac's Specs
C2D MacBook Pro
I can't decide which is worse. The fact they sent a draft notice to a baby or the fact that they even have a draft in Germany....

1. Service in the armed forces is required of all males in Germany. In other words, not only do they have a draft, but a majority of their soldiers are conscripted.

2. Why is that bad? Most armies in Europe have the same system.


In any case, I would find the article MORE (cough) funny if such things didn't happen in all bureaucracies...including ours. Still, it is pretty humorous.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
I find the concept of conscription under the European family of socialist systems to be rather silly. Then again, maybe I shouldn't, come to think of it. I would have figured that they would have moved to a more "humane" and "fair" voluntary system, but I'm not sure that would work for them.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
Yes, but it is obvious WHY it is necessary in a county like Israel.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
939
Reaction score
84
Points
28
Location
Akron, Ohio
Your Mac's Specs
C2D MacBook Pro
I find the concept of conscription under the European family of socialist systems to be rather silly. Then again, maybe I shouldn't, come to think of it. I would have figured that they would have moved to a more "humane" and "fair" voluntary system, but I'm not sure that would work for them.

I find it to be a great idea. Every person (male and female) should be required to serve for a set period of time after wither turning 18 or graduating high school...whichever comes first.

Imagine. Wars would be thought of differently when everyone has a high stake in it. It would promote physical fitness. It would create a stronger sense of nationalism. The list goes on...
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
61
Points
48
Location
California, the golden state
Your Mac's Specs
G4 AGP 400 MHz 1.34gb RAM
I find it to be a great idea. Every person (male and female) should be required to serve for a set period of time after wither turning 18 or graduating high school...whichever comes first.

Imagine. Wars would be thought of differently when everyone has a high stake in it. It would promote physical fitness. It would create a stronger sense of nationalism. The list goes on...

I agree with the last part.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
Imagine. Wars would be thought of differently when everyone has a high stake in it. It would promote physical fitness. It would create a stronger sense of nationalism. The list goes on...

At the beginning of WWI and WWII the Germans, French, Italians, Brits, Japanese and the US (to name just a few) had conscription based militaries. How much differently did they think about war? A strong sense of "Nationalism" was a huge contributing factor in both wars. You might want to study some history here...

I don't disagree with that it may be a good idea, but forcing people into doing things they don't want to do often has a huge negative downside.

I would like to see some sort of National service in the US, not necessarily limited to only Military Service, though.

Just for my own edification, may enquire as to your age? You don't list it in your profile.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
939
Reaction score
84
Points
28
Location
Akron, Ohio
Your Mac's Specs
C2D MacBook Pro
At the beginning of WWI and WWII the Germans, French, Italians, Brits, Japanese and the US (to name just a few) had conscription based militaries. How much differently did they think about war? A strong sense of "Nationalism" was a huge contributing factor in both wars. You might want to study some history here...

I don't disagree with that it may be a good idea, but forcing people into doing things they don't want to do often has a huge negative downside.

I would like to see some sort of National service in the US, not necessarily limited to only Military Service, though.

Just for my own edification, may enquire as to your age? You don't list it in your profile.

WWI and WWII were justifiable wars and were seen as such throughout the wars. It certainly would not prevent wars, but questionable wars would not be as common as they are today. At least I would like to think people would take a more active stance on issues...I'm probably being an idealist though.

And you are right about nationalism. It has caused many conflicts...but there were many other factors in WWI and WWII, including land disputes and world depression. Nationalism itself would not be able to start a war in today's world due to the global reaction.

Forcing people to do things they do not want to do WOULD have it's negative effects. A 'national service' would be better than straight military service and would help alleviate some of those negative effects. Plus, it would create a larger pool of people to draw upon when national disasters occur (Katrina).

Bah...I am having trouble thinking right now for some reason. I have been typing this **** reply for about 15 minutes.

Oh...and I am 18.
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
101
Points
63
Location
arizona desert
Your Mac's Specs
2007 iMac 10.6.8 | 2009 MacBook uni 10.6.8 | 2010 MBA 10.8.5 |
I had planned to join the Air Force (I'd hoped for a position in communications) when I was eighteen. This ended up being absolutely forbidden by my dad. I guess it was due to his experience in the Air Force?!
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
WWI and WWII were justifiable wars and were seen as such throughout the wars. It certainly would not prevent wars, but questionable wars would not be as common as they are today. At least I would like to think people would take a more active stance on issues...I'm probably being an idealist though.

So it was justifiable for the Germans to invade France and Russia in both wars? It was justifiable for the Japanese to invade China and slaughter millions? The wars were seen as justifiable in the west for a variety of reasons, but they were seen as justifiable by the people on the other side too. Who says what is justifiable? Would the UN making a massive move in Daifure be justifiable, even though UN flagged soldiers would die and innocent civilians would be hurt because of it? If Nazi Germany had won WWII, would we still see our actions in WWII as justifiable? Would they?

Were the Napoleanic wars justifiable from either sides perspective? How about the Franco-Prussian War? Korea? Vietnam? All of these involved conscription and National Pride to some extent or the other. I obviously disagree with your opinion of conscription, but not completely. I don't think conscription would make any difference in deciding on conflicts, historically it never has and that is unlikely to change. Otherwise I actually agree with you on it's benefits to a country and a society.

I'm not trying to beat up on you here, but one must not view history through Rose colored glasses. If you do, you miss the real lessons.

iKitten, that's too bad. Military service, especially voluntary, can be good for a person and show them things about themselves they may never otherwise learn.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
939
Reaction score
84
Points
28
Location
Akron, Ohio
Your Mac's Specs
C2D MacBook Pro
So it was justifiable for the Germans to invade France and Russia in both wars? It was justifiable for the Japanese to invade China and slaughter millions? The wars were seen as justifiable in the west for a variety of reasons, but they were seen as justifiable by the people on the other side too. Who says what is justifiable? Would the UN making a massive move in Daifure be justifiable, even though UN flagged soldiers would die and innocent civilians would be hurt because of it? If Nazi Germany had won WWII, would we still see our actions in WWII as justifiable? Would they?

Were the Napoleanic wars justifiable from either sides perspective? How about the Franco-Prussian War? Korea? Vietnam? All of these involved conscription and National Pride to some extent or the other.

I'm not trying to beat up on you here, but one must not view history through Rose colored glasses. If you do, you miss the real lessons.

I have given you no reason to believe that I see history through 'rose-colored glasses'. I am curious were exactly you pulled that from. You have no idea the extent of my knowledge in history. I am actually getting a little upset that you find it necessary to use such condescending tones with me when, in fact, you know next to nothing about me.

I am well aware of perspectives during war. I mean exactly what I said...both wars were justifiable and seen as such by -all- parties involved. Such is history and people.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
It was a blanket statement and not necessarily aimed at you, although it could have been construed as such. I simply find your earlier comments to be somewhat interesting in the light of human history.

As I said, I agree that some sort of national service would be good, I just disagree with some of the reasons you gave.

So if both wars were seen as justifiable by -ALL- sides as you say, how can National Pride, as a positive reason for conscription, ever be seen as a good thing and how would people view wars differently than they do now or have in the past? It seems to me if you have a large pool of bodies to use, your more likely to use them.

cheesybanana said:
I'm probably being an idealist though.

I think I missed that when I read your earlier post.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
61
Points
48
Location
California, the golden state
Your Mac's Specs
G4 AGP 400 MHz 1.34gb RAM
I had planned to join the Air Force (I'd hoped for a position in communications) when I was eighteen. This ended up being absolutely forbidden by my dad. I guess it was due to his experience in the Air Force?!

I have a grilfriend who moved here from Kansas (she is back now after eight years of living here). Her father was in the military and the police force, so she knew a lot about how they both operate. She said that once you get in the military, you cannot leave. And, at times, military service is misrepresented to the young people before signing up. Another reason would be to get education. I don't down play patriotism and it is OK to sign up to fight for your country. I think, people who do are brave people.
She was approached by the military and promised "not so true" things. She knew they were empty promises about how quickly you get promoted, etc. So, she decided not to join.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
You're right johntailin. I've seen recruiters feed more lines to young females than to young males by far. As far as never leaving goes, I'm not so sure. I know people who left and you would never know they served unless they bothered to tell you. I believe it a conscious choice to be honest.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
61
Points
48
Location
California, the golden state
Your Mac's Specs
G4 AGP 400 MHz 1.34gb RAM
You're right johntailin. I've seen recruiters feed more lines to young females than to young males by far. As far as never leaving goes, I'm not so sure. I know people who left and you would never know they served unless they bothered to tell you. I believe it a conscious choice to be honest.

I thought you could only get dishonorable discharge if you decide to leave.
What are the other choices?
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
10,345
Reaction score
597
Points
113
Location
Margaritaville
Your Mac's Specs
3.4 Ghz i7 MacBook Pro (2015), iPad Pro (2014), iPhone Xs Max. Apple TV 4K
I think I misunderstood you to be honest. I thought you meant the lifestyle, not the military itself.

You have to finish the term of your contract as enlisted or fulfill your obligation as an officer. Once the terms have been fulfilled you can re-enlist (officer just stay until the quit or retire) or leave honorably. You can not simply choose to leave. You can walk away, but there are legal considerations and this sort of thing can follow you around for a long time. You occasionally hear about some 70 year old guy getting picked up because he skipped out 40 or 50 years ago. It's like paying taxes, it's just easier to do because otherwise they will eventually catch you.

You can get medical or administrative discharges for various reasons as well.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
61
Points
48
Location
California, the golden state
Your Mac's Specs
G4 AGP 400 MHz 1.34gb RAM
I think I misunderstood you to be honest. I thought you meant the lifestyle, not the military itself.

You have to finish the term of your contract as enlisted or fulfill your obligation as an officer. Once the terms have been fulfilled you can re-enlist (officer just stay until the quit or retire) or leave honorably. You can not simply choose to leave. You can walk away, but there are legal considerations and this sort of thing can follow you around for a long time. You occasionally hear about some 70 year old guy getting picked up because he skipped out 40 or 50 years ago. It's like paying taxes, it's just easier to do because otherwise they will eventually catch you.

You can get medical or administrative discharges for various reasons as well.

Thanks. Good info.
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top