Monterey on iMac after recovery reinstall now shows a different volume format?

[RadDave]

Hello all - yesterday in 'System Preferences' I changed my wife's iMac login to 'Name & Users' (she hated the Monterey wallpaper) - she tried to login and was asked both her name and PW - neither of us could remember the name of her computer and could not login - I ended up in 'Recovery' and reinstalled Monterey which was put in the Data Volume (assume because the System volume is locked and signed) - when done rebooted to the same login screen - I called Apple and we got into terminal to reset the PW and her pic w/ the computer's real name popped up - entered that after a reboot and GOT in! Should have called Apple first - my fault for not keeping tract of the iMac's name!

Well, since I did a Monterey reinstall, I checked Disk Utility on both her iMac and my Monterey MBAir and there are now differences and I'm not sure if they need to be 'fixed' on the iMac - the computer is working fine and I just finished duplicate TM & CCC (just the data) backups - BUT not certain what is going to happen w/ the next Monterey release? Comments or suggestions please - thanks. Images below of DU in the Air and the iMac. Dave
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[MacInWin]

she tried to login and was asked both her name and PW - neither of us could remember the name of her computer and could not login

It wanted her login account name, not the computer name, but I think that is what you meant. Just wanted to be sure you knew that.

On the MBA you have one snapshot (backup files) in addition to the System Volume (greyed out) and the Data Volume. On the iMac, you have Data as the name of the "volume drive," but no snapshots showing as the ">" is collapsed and not showing any snapshots. But, in installing to the Data drive, you basically now have the System drive on the Data drive. It's the greyed out Volume showing in the left column and named "Macintosh HD - Data."

What happens next? Hard to tell. Normally it would be installing the system update to what would be the greyed out System Volume, but that isn't there. Will it be clever enough to figure it out that "Macintosh HD - Data" is the real system volume? Hard to tell. Probably, but I personally would not trust it to be able to discern that difference.

What I would do is make a good backup of the Data-Data Volume and go back to Recovery, reinstall the OS to the Container disk1 and then restore from the Data-Data backup to the new Data volume. PITA, but then you end up with Macintosh HD with Macintosh HD as the system volume and Macintosh HD - Data as the data volume, as it is on the MBA.

I have no idea why they said to install to the "Data" volume. That is just bad advice, period.

 

[RadDave]

It wanted her login account name, not the computer name, but I think that is what you meant. Just wanted to be sure you knew that.

On the MBA you have one snapshot (backup files) in addition to the System Volume (greyed out) and the Data Volume. On the iMac, you have Data as the name of the "volume drive," but no snapshots showing as the ">" is collapsed and not showing any snapshots. But, in installing to the Data drive, you basically now have the System drive on the Data drive. It's the greyed out Volume showing in the left column and named "Macintosh HD - Data."

What happens next? Hard to tell. Normally it would be installing the system update to what would be the greyed out System Volume, but that isn't there. Will it be clever enough to figure it out that "Macintosh HD - Data" is the real system volume? Hard to tell. Probably, but I personally would not trust it to be able to discern that difference.

What I would do is make a good backup of the Data-Data Volume and go back to Recovery, reinstall the OS to the Container disk1 and then restore from the Data-Data backup to the new Data volume. PITA, but then you end up with Macintosh HD with Macintosh HD as the system volume and Macintosh HD - Data as the data volume, as it is on the MBA.

I have no idea why they said to install to the "Data" volume. That is just bad advice, period.

Hi Jake - thanks for your prompt response - yes, it was her 'admin' name being asked for so I did not mean to say computer name; we had not used it in years and I could not find the name stored in my PW apps.

At the moment, wife is on a Zoom session and has used the iMac all day w/o an issue - I just ended an iMessages chat w/ Apple and the technician read my phone interaction from yesterday and also my post w/ the two pics which I sent here. With backups he wanted to erase, reinstall OS, then restore on the iMac and implied also on the MBAir? The latter took the original upgrade from Catalina and subsequent updates of Monterey - I assumed that it's volume format is fine, so a little confused. Now w/ the iMac the format is certainly not right - when I did the reinstall yesterday in 'Recovery' it was simply stated that the OS would be put in the data volume - can't remember if I even had an option?

As long as the iMac is working (her personal files are being constantly backed up on Backblaze), I need a 'breather' for a few days and also need to do some more reading on these new Apple disc formats - the Apple technician implied that the machines would probably go on working even as formatted - true? I don't know - I'll likely be back in the near future. Thanks again for all of your help. Dave

 

[MacInWin]

Dave, this is what DU shows for my internal drive:


Physical level, one Container with one merged Volume (called Macintosh HD) and two volumes in that, one system (greyed out but with one snapshot) and one Data. That looks to me a match to what you have on the MBA. But it is different from what I see on the iMac. The difference is that your upper level name is Macintosh HD - Data (the "- Data" is added) and then your data volume is "Macintosh HD - Data - Data." As I said, I don't know what will happen when the system gets the next update. It may be fine, as technically you can name the merged "Macintosh HD" anything you want, but, again, as I said, I would want to sort that out before the next major update or upgrade comes along. But, you can just leave it, since it's working, and see what happens. Worst is that the update/upgrade doesn't apply properly and you have to reinstall/restore then. (Kind of a "pay now or pay later" approach, and you may not have to pay later after all.)

 

[RadDave]

Dave, this is what DU shows for my internal drive:
View attachment 36068

Physical level, one Container with one merged Volume (called Macintosh HD) and two volumes in that, one system (greyed out but with one snapshot) and one Data. That looks to me a match to what you have on the MBA. But it is different from what I see on the iMac. The difference is that your upper level name is Macintosh HD - Data (the "- Data" is added) and then your data volume is "Macintosh HD - Data - Data." As I said, I don't know what will happen when the system gets the next update. It may be fine, as technically you can name the merged "Macintosh HD" anything you want, but, again, as I said, I would want to sort that out before the next major update or upgrade comes along. But, you can just leave it, since it's working, and see what happens. Worst is that the update/upgrade doesn't apply properly and you have to reinstall/restore then. (Kind of a "pay now or pay later" approach, and you may not have to pay later after all.)

Thanks again Jake for your promptness and willingness to help in a confusing situation (to me at least) - so first point is that you feel the MBAir DU format is fine (still not sure why the Apple technician wanted to erase that computer?).

Below I opened all of the pointers on the iMac DU format - from my better understanding now the grayed out 'Macintosh HD - Data' is now my system volume (the 'untouchable'), the 'Macintosh HD -Data snapshot' is of the previous volume used to boot the computer, and the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' is my true 'data volume' which is now presumably copied when I do TM and CCC backups?

Is there anyway to check that the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' files to see that in that volume are indeed the ones on my current TM and CCC backups? Just want to be sure if I need to do a 'clean' install and migrate that data folder. At the moment since all seems to be working, I'll just sit tight and decide what to do when Apple releases the next Monterey update (assume that will come before the next upgrade?). Thanks again for you help - you're such an important part of this forum. Dave
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[MacInWin]

first point is that you feel the MBAir DU format is fine (still not sure why the Apple technician wanted to erase that computer?).

The MBA looks fine. It matches what I have exactly (names slightly different, but structure is identical).

Below I opened all of the pointers on the iMac DU format - from my better understanding now the grayed out 'Macintosh HD - Data' is now my system volume (the 'untouchable'), the 'Macintosh HD -Data snapshot' is of the previous volume used to boot the computer, and the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' is my true 'data volume' which is now presumably copied when I do TM and CCC backups?

Correct. Normally the System volume would be named just "Macintosh HD" without the "Data" and the Data volume would be just "Macintosh HD - Data" without the second "Data" appended. So the issue left is just in the naming. However, the system boots, your data is there, so there isn't anything "wrong" about it other than naming. You can probably leave it that way. As for TM and CCC, I think they will do ok, but you can enter TM or open the CCC drive and look at what is backed up if you feel you need to check.

Is there anyway to check that the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' files to see that in that volume are indeed the ones on my current TM and CCC backups?

Sure. Make a new file with a unique name you can find easily. Something like "Did This Backup" will do nicely. You an use anything to create it, even Finder if you make a new folder on the desktop and call it the unique name. Now trigger a TM backup manually and do the same for CCC. Once the backups are complete, enter TM and see if the unique name is in the same place as you created it. If so, the backup is good. Now you can delete the original new file/folder.

 

[RadDave]

The MBA looks fine. It matches what I have exactly (names slightly different, but structure is identical).


Correct. Normally the System volume would be named just "Macintosh HD" without the "Data" and the Data volume would be just "Macintosh HD - Data" without the second "Data" appended. So the issue left is just in the naming. However, the system boots, your data is there, so there isn't anything "wrong" about it other than naming. You can probably leave it that way. As for TM and CCC, I think they will do ok, but you can enter TM or open the CCC drive and look at what is backed up if you feel you need to check.

Sure. Make a new file with a unique name you can find easily. Something like "Did This Backup" will do nicely. You an use anything to create it, even Finder if you make a new folder on the desktop and call it the unique name. Now trigger a TM backup manually and do the same for CCC. Once the backups are complete, enter TM and see if the unique name is in the same place as you created it. If so, the backup is good. Now you can delete the original new file/folder.

Thanks yet again Jake - glad that you agree on my MBAir - I thought that it looked fine to me.

OK, so Apple's 'Recovery' on a macOS re-install decided to rename my volumes w/ the 'Data' additions - not sure why, a 'bug' in their Monterey OS? Well, I'll do some more searching to see if others have had a similar issue - BUT will leave the iMac alone for now as long as my wife is not complaining - probably will do repeat TM/CCC backups toward the end of the month and will test your last suggestion. Dave

 

[MacInWin]

Dave, I don't think Monterey is at fault here. You said in post #

I ended up in 'Recovery' and reinstalled Monterey which was put in the Data Volume (assume because the System volume is locked and signed)

The only way the system ended up in the old Data volume was because at the installation time that volume was selected instead of at the higher level (Macintosh HD). What the system drive is actually named may not make much difference. You could have renamed the Volume at the time to "Of Course I Still Love You" (credit to Elon Musk) and the data volume would have been created as "Of Course I Still Love You - Data." So you installed the recovery to the old Data and the new Data-Data was created in the process. I think you will be fine in the long run, but the next time you have to do a major installation (upgrade, not update), I would fix it all by doing a full new install/restore on the iMac.

 

[RadDave]

Dave, I don't think Monterey is at fault here. You said in post #

The only way the system ended up in the old Data volume was because at the installation time that volume was selected instead of at the higher level (Macintosh HD). What the system drive is actually named may not make much difference. You could have renamed the Volume at the time to "Of Course I Still Love You" (credit to Elon Musk) and the data volume would have been created as "Of Course I Still Love You - Data." So you installed the recovery to the old Data and the new Data-Data was created in the process. I think you will be fine in the long run, but the next time you have to do a major installation (upgrade, not update), I would fix it all by doing a full new install/restore on the iMac.

Hi Jake - well, I was reading Apple's KB article on 'Reinstalling macOS' from Recovery, partly quoted below - I bolded the sentence there - now I don't remember but apparently did have the choice to re-install in 'Macintosh HD' and not the data volume - my error presumably.

Well, I'll keep your thoughts in mind and likely will then just try an update and see what happens, but when the next upgrade comes along (assume will be 13.x - name?), I'll do a 'fresh' install - thanks again. Dave
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Reinstall macOS​

Reinstalling macOS does not remove data from your Mac. To begin installation, select Reinstall macOS from the utilities window in macOS Recovery, then click Continue and follow the onscreen instructions.

Follow these guidelines during installation:

• If the installer asks to unlock your disk, enter the password you use to log in to your Mac.
• If the installer doesn't see your disk, or it says that it can't install on your computer or volume, you might need to erase your disk first.
• If the installer offers you the choice between installing on Macintosh HD or Macintosh HD - Data, choose Macintosh HD.
• Allow installation to complete without putting your Mac to sleep or closing its lid. Your Mac might restart and show a progress bar several times, and the screen might be empty for minutes at a time.

After installation is complete, your Mac might restart to a setup assistant. If you're selling, trading in, or giving away your Mac, press Command-Q to quit the assistant without completing setup. Then click Shut Down. When the new owner starts up the Mac, they can use their own information to complete setup.

​

 

[RadDave]

Thanks again Jake for your promptness and willingness to help in a confusing situation (to me at least) - so first point is that you feel the MBAir DU format is fine (still not sure why the Apple technician wanted to erase that computer?).

Below I opened all of the pointers on the iMac DU format - from my better understanding now the grayed out 'Macintosh HD - Data' is now my system volume (the 'untouchable'), the 'Macintosh HD -Data snapshot' is of the previous volume used to boot the computer, and the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' is my true 'data volume' which is now presumably copied when I do TM and CCC backups?

Is there anyway to check that the 'Macintosh HD - Data - Data' files to see that in that volume are indeed the ones on my current TM and CCC backups? Just want to be sure if I need to do a 'clean' install and migrate that data folder. At the moment since all seems to be working, I'll just sit tight and decide what to do when Apple releases the next Monterey update (assume that will come before the next upgrade?). Thanks again for you help - you're such an important part of this forum. Dave
.
View attachment 36069

NEW POST after Monterey 12.4 update on May 26!

Today I updated wife's iMac to 12.4 - went fine - in Disk Utility (pic below from today) the format on her SSD is the same as before (pic above on 12.3 - need to expand and view attachment) - SO, looks like the new named format w/ the extra 'Data' will be maintained at least in Monterey - have no idea what may happen when 13.x is released? Dave

P.S. I have such an urge to just try to rename those container volumes but not a good idea or even possible, I assume?

 

[MacInWin]

NEW POST after Monterey 12.4 update on May 26!

Today I updated wife's iMac to 12.4 - went fine - in Disk Utility (pic below from today) the format on her SSD is the same as before (pic above on 12.3 - need to expand and view attachment) - SO, looks like the new named format w/ the extra 'Data' will be maintained at least in Monterey - have no idea what may happen when 13.x is released? Dave

P.S. I have such an urge to just try to rename those container volumes but not a good idea or even possible, I assume?


View attachment 36312

Well, as I said, macOS doesn't care what you call the major Volume, it adds "Data" to the user-accessible Volume, so I think even an upgrade will preserve the name unless you take the opportunity to do a "clean" install and wipe the drive to star over.

I would recommend against renaming the drives at this point. Too many other things can go wrong with that. The OS may handle it, but other applications may not be able to find various components that may be all over the place. I'd just live with it for a while, maybe until the next big upgrade?

 

[Rod]

I agree with Jake here, having done this a few times myself it's my experience that an upgrade will not rename or alter the existing structure of the files.
Just FYI heres a snap of my brand new M1 MBP. Data restored via WiFi from my old MBP using Migration Assistant.

 

[RadDave]

Thanks Jake and Rod for your comments - I was just making a 'tongue in cheek' statement about renaming those volumes - know that it would cause a mess - I'll have to decide this fall assuming Apple releases MacOS 13.x, maybe Carmel? Dave

 

[Rod]

Haha! Well, the only “simple” solution is probably an erase and reinstall. PITA.

 

[RadDave]

Hi Jake and Rod who replied to my plight, which I blame myself - well, a few days ago I left a post at MacForums HERE was basically as Jake suggested months ago - well, I've been upgrading her computer w/o an issue but the file format has not changed - did I want to go through the bother and possibly screw up her apps and data?

Well, the computer was Intel and pushing 5 years so for her Christmas present, I bought the M3 iMac below - did a migration today w/ a TM BU (after about a week of her deleting likely a thousand or more files from various Finder folders) - went fine and was done in a few hours - the drive format is now normal and all of my machines are on Apple silicon.

Will get the old Intel iMac prepped for sale and see what I can get? Thanks for your help. Dave

P.S. bought through Apple but w/ a VA discount (saved about $200).

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[Rod]

Woohoo! MERRY CHRISTMAS, I'm just a little green.