Disastrous Catalina upgrade

[paul-ny]

I read enough to decide to update my system from Mojave to Catalina. All seemed fine, new system downloaded, an alert said the (one-year-old) laptop would turn itself off to start installing. It did, and then it never came back on. After a day spent with escalating experts at AppleCare they decided my computer is impossible to power up, & are sending a box to return it in. Is this something that happens with Catalina installation, or was it just a horrible coincidence for me?

 

[MacInWin]

just a horrible coincidence

 

[chscag]

Don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but if you have a MacBook Pro or Air that is one year old, it contains a T2 security chip. There have been reported incidents where the update to Catalina has bricked the machine. Apple does have a procedure to follow that can unbrick your machine if that's what happened. Be sure to ask the Apple Care tech about that before you send off your machine to Apple for repair.

 

[krs]

Did a quick check on the net, but I didn't see anything directly related to the T2 chip and an upgrade to Catalina causing problems, but I came across this which blew my mind:
Apple Confirms T2 Chip Can Brick Macs After Third-Party Repairs - ExtremeTech

If I understand this correctly, it means that I can no longer, for example, replace a defective keyboard myself on a MacBook if the Mac includes that T2 chip.

That's a bummer - in the past I found that the keyboard and track pad on the MacBook pros are not the most robust - had to replace those twice on different MacBook pros in the past.

 

[MacInWin]

@krs, that's kind of old news. The article is dated in last 2018.

 

[krs]

Sorry - I didn't check the date.
This issue is certainly new to me.

But is my concern still valid? No more doing simple repairs myself like replacing a defective keyboard on a MacBook 2018 or later that's out of warranty.

 

[chscag]

There's several long threads at MacRumors describing how the update to Catalina and the supplemental update to 10.15.4 bricked certain MacBook Pros and MacBook Air machines that contain the T2 security chip. If I can find the thread(s) I'll post a link.

I found one link and there are several others. This one is about the supplemental update and also includes replies regarding how Catalina bricked their machines.

macOS Catalina 10.15.4 Supplemental Update BRICKED my 16 inch MacBook Pro 2019 | MacRumors Forums

 

[krs]

Thanks - there are some others like you said
WARNING macOS Catalina 10.15.4 Supplemental Update BRICKED my 13 inch Macbook 2018! | MacRumors Forums

Strange that it happens with only some Macs with the T2 chip so there must be something else in play as well.

 

[Rod]

Just looking into the future, what about when the device becomes “obsolete” in Apple’s definition and they refuse to repair it. Will the T2 chip prevent repairs by third parties?


Sent from my iPhone using Mac-Forums

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Just looking into the future, what about when the device becomes “obsolete” in Apple’s definition and they refuse to repair it. Will the T2 chip prevent repairs by third parties?

The T2 chip *already* prevents repairs by third parties. I believe that there is at least one lawsuit going on over this. Third party repair companies are claiming that Apple is purposely forcing them out of business.

Apple's T2 Chip Makes Third-Party Mac Repairs Impossible
Apple's T2 Chip Makes Third-Party Mac Repairs Impossible | PCMag

Comment: $3k Macs reduced to $12 scrap’ shows need for a new T2 chip approach
New T2 chip approach would prevent $3k Macs being scrapped- 9to5Mac

 

[krs]

I wonder if this repair issue has come up in Europe.

The EU typically doesn't screw around when it comes to issues like that.

 

[chscag]

Haven't heard if there are any lawsuits pending in Europe. But the links that Randy posted show that Apple once again has gone overboard with preventing other than Apple techs performing repairs. We have already seen that with iPhones and now it appears the same is happening with those Macs that have the T2 security chip.

Reading through some of those threads over at MacRumors regarding users who lost access to their machines because of the T2 is disturbing. I can't imagine spending over $3K on a 16" MacBook Pro and then it bricks because of an update to Catalina. Especially now with all Apple stores closed it is very inconvenient for an owner to have to ship the unit to Apple to be repaired.

 

[krs]

.....Apple once again has gone overboard with preventing other than Apple techs performing repairs.

I'm surprised that this is not already illegal.

When I buy a Mac, I own it - it's not that I leased it or just obtained the "Right-To-Use"
I should be able to repair or modify it to my hearts content.

 

[MacInWin]

Just curious, but would Apple Configurator 2 ( Welcome - Apple Support) allow a shop to do a replacement, then reset the T2 chip? If it would, the problem is solved.

So you don't have to go through the entire manual, it's this process I am referring to: Revive or restore Mac firmware in Apple Configurator 2 - Apple Support

 

[Randy B. Singer]

I wonder if this repair issue has come up in Europe.

The EU typically doesn't screw around when it comes to issues like that.

I hope that it does come up. The "right to repair" issue has been a big one in the U.S., and it hasn't been conclusively settled yet. It used to be that the U.S. state supreme courts were on top of these things, but we are now living in a different era and now we often have to look to Europe to reign in overreaching companies.

 

[rainbowcat]

Having read all this, I am not updating to Catalina until Apple stores are fully up and running!

 

[paul-ny]

Ha! I do have a T2 computer so it looks like that is what happened, and I WISH I had seen this reply before I sent the laptop off to Apple for repair! I was without it for a week, and they replaced the battery and case along with the logic board. I don't know if there would have been a way they could have unbricked me remotely; nothing they tried showed any sign of turning on the computer; it seemed dead. One Applecare tech said "configurator" might help but I'd need another Mac running Mojave or later, which i had to go out and borrow, and when I got back with it, a different (and I think higher ranking) tech said there was no point. After the week's absence, I got back a working (in Catalina) but empty computer. Then Migration Assistant failed to restore anything from backup, evidently because of the difference in systems; and also my backup was with Carbon Copy Cloner, so AppleCare wouldn't help because it wasn't Time Machine. I had to restore everything by dragging, and I had to reinstall all non-Apple apps. And THEN when I tried a first backup onto my external backup disk, CCC failed. Their tech (Mike Bombich himself) said probably the backup disk is too fragmented &/or full to manage the change of data structure format that Catalina uses, & my only option is to erase the disk and try fresh). Boy am I sorry I clicked Upgrade to Catalina!!!!!

 

[chscag]

We are indeed sorry to hear about all the trouble you've been through.

The upgrade to Catalina is not without some caution. Folks with 32 bit apps and those with certain model Macs (T2 security chip) were not warned in advance that there may be problems. If you read through those threads we outlined above you could see that you're not alone.

I am wondering why Apple did not just give you a new machine rather than completely rebuild yours?

If we can be of any assistance with getting your new rebuilt machine up and running, let us know.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

I am wondering why Apple did not just give you a new machine rather than completely rebuild yours?

Well, he said that Apple "replaced the battery and case along with the logic board" and give him an "empty" hard drive. It sounds like they replaced everything. I wouldn't be surprised if what they sent him back was simply a refurbished Mac. That would be consistent with how Apple does repairs these days. They don't waste expensive labor time fixing things that they can just swap out. Hardware is much cheaper than labor.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

...Boy am I sorry I clicked Upgrade to Catalina!!!!!

More and more I've been rethinking my guidance that folks should upgrade their OS's as much as possible.

It used to be that I'd recommend that folks upgrade to get the latest and most effective security, if nothing else. But more and more I've come to see that certain users aren't up to dealing with an upgrade, especially those who don't keep a full, up-to-date backup.

Also, more and more folks see a decrease in performance if they don't upgrade via a clean install (rather than the easier install-n-place.) (Users who do a clean install to upgrade often see an increase in performance.)

Extremely few users experience anything like what Paul experienced, but there are other pitfalls, such as apps that won't run under the new OS (especially expensive ones like anything from Adobe or Microsoft). And then there are nasty bugs that don't get squashed until an OS has has several updates.

So I'm starting to think that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Just stay put with the OS that you've got. You can upgrade to a new OS when it comes with a new computer.