Can you revert to an earlier OS after upgrading to a later one?

[Tuppy]

I have a nephew who is taking community college courses and uses a 2015 MacBook Pro to do his school papers on.

He called and told me that he's been using OS 10.15 Catalina on his laptop for a long time, and was very comfortable with it, but just on a whim he upgraded to OS 12 Monterey a few days ago, and now he doesn't like it. He asked me if it's possible to ditch Monterey and revert back to Catalina. I told him I don't know, but I'd try to find out.

So, is there a way he can go back to Catalina, or is he now stuck in Monterey?

Tom

 

[pm-r]

So, is there a way he can go back to Catalina, or is he now stuck in Monterey?

Try some of these:

mac go back to Catalina - Google Search

www.google.com

Or more specifically:

mac go back to Catalina from Monterey - Google Search

www.google.com

Everything should work fairly well as long as apple is still signing the Catalina installation.



- Patrick
=======

 

[Rod]

The sad truth is yes, it can be done but it's difficult.
It involves erasing the computer completely because Apple will not allow retrograde installation of earlier operating systems over newer ones.

Having done that the old operating system can be reinstalled but not by the same computer because, its been erased.

You must have two things: A bootable macOS installer created from a fresh copy of the macOS Catalina Installer from the App Store, and a complete backup of your personal data to restore from, once the computer has an operating system again.

It is a medium complicated process which takes time and is not without inherent risks. I would suggest that your nephew put in a similar amount of effort to master macOS Monterey rather than risking damage and/or data loss.

When it comes to writing essays/papers really little has changed.

 

[Rod]

Actually the link I posted here is not all that good really, it assumes that macOS Catalina is current which of course it isn't. You will not find it by the normal means in the App Store any more. A bit of a search may turn up a direct link for it, just a further complication in the process.

 

[IWT]

@Tuppy

You have received some excellent advice from Rod.

My contribution is to tell you (well, your son) that the consensus opinion is that Monterey is superior to Catalina in most respects. It is robust. It is the current OS and carries with it a lot of security updates as well as a significant additional functions.

It is future-proof for a good while, being current. The next OS, Ventura, comes out in a few weeks, but your son would manage fine with Monterey for another year or two at least; whereas Catalina would be left behind with less security and fewer functions.

All that is required is patience and a willingness to learn and keep up to date.

Ian

 

[chevyboy60013]

If I was your son, I would put in the slightly more effort into getting used to Monterey. It’s current which is important for security, and what I have heard, it will be supported for at least a couple years yet.

 

[toMACsh]

I have a nephew who is taking community college courses and uses a 2015 MacBook Pro to do his school papers on.

He called and told me that he's been using OS 10.15 Catalina on his laptop for a long time, and was very comfortable with it, but just on a whim he upgraded to OS 12 Monterey a few days ago, and now he doesn't like it. He asked me if it's possible to ditch Monterey and revert back to Catalina. I told him I don't know, but I'd try to find out.

So, is there a way he can go back to Catalina, or is he now stuck in Monterey?

Tom

Why doesn’t he like it? Maybe there is an easy solution to his issue.

 

[Tuppy]

Why doesn’t he like it? Maybe there is an easy solution to his issue.

Well, he just said that things don't operate the same in Monterey, and some of the shortcuts he learned in Catalina don't work in it. I didn't ask him for specifics, but he did mention that for one thing he tried to create some aliases to papers that he'd written, but when he right-clicked on them and chose Make Alias nothing happened. He said that he's run into some similar frustrations.

Since you guys have made me aware (thanks very much!) of the all the trouble we'd face in dropping back from Monterey to Catalina, I'm going to suggest to my nephew that he just buckle down and learn what's different in Monterey and how to cope with it. Looking on Amazon just now, it appears that David Pogue didn't do one of his Missing Manuals for Monterey, but there are other help books there that I could get him.

Otherwise, there might be one possible way for him to drop back to Catalina that I'm considering. I spotted on Ebay, here, someone selling 1TB SSD hard drives for MacBooks that come pre-loaded with OS 10.13 High Sierra. My nephew's 2015 MacBook only has a small hard drive in it, so this 1TB SSD would be a useful upgrade for him.

If I took all his schoolwork, plus whatever else he wants to save, off his MacBook's hard drive onto an external one temporarily, and then replaced his MacBook's old drive with the new SSD one, he would be back to High Sierra, from which it is then only two OS jumps up to Catalina. And I could restore his stuff onto the new internal drive from the external backup HD. This would not only get him Catalina back but he'd have a nice big new SSD upgrade as well.

The only problem with this scheme is that if the Apple App Store really is no longer offering the Catalina download, then he'd be stuck in High Sierra. I've never had anything to do with the App Store, but I went to Apple's website and tried to find out if Catalina is available, without success. I tried to use their Help Chat feature to ask about it, but although a message came up that said "Your Case ID is 104820065823 and you will be automatically directed to a Chat window," no such chat window ever appeared. So I gave up on that.

So before I buy the new HD for my nephew's MacBook I'll try by other means to find out if Catalina is still available anywhere, if not the App Store. If anyone knows for sure, please let me know.

Thanks very much for all the great help and advice I've received here!

 

[Rod]

Last question first, Catalina is still available but not by the usual method. That is, if you search on the App Store you won't find it but here, after a little searching, is a page with a link to the Catalina Installer on the App Store ‎macOS Catalina. The page will ask if you want to "View in Mac App Store", do that and low and behold there it is.
I didn't mean to make it sound like it would be impossible, just an added complication. Obviously it's easier if you know what to search for.

As for the Alias thing, I can only say this is what happens on my MBP using R click > Make alias;



As you can see an alias was created below the original. The same thing happens with Duplicate and as far as I can remember always has.

 

[Tuppy]

Last question first, Catalina is still available but not by the usual method. That is, if you search on the App Store you won't find it but here, after a little searching, is a page with a link to the Catalina Installer on the App Store ‎macOS Catalina. The page will ask if you want to "View in Mac App Store", do that and low and behold there it is.
I didn't mean to make it sound like it would be impossible, just an added complication. Obviously it's easier if you know what to search for.

As for the Alias thing, I can only say this is what happens on my MBP using R click > Make alias;

View attachment 36993

As you can see an alias was created below the original. The same thing happens with Duplicate and as far as I can remember always has.

Yes, when I see my nephew, with his MacBook, I'll have to ask him to demonstrate for me what the problem was with making aliases. I was talking to him on the phone when he told me about it, so I couldn't quite visualize what he was talking about, and still can't

Aha, so there is the Catalina installer! Thanks very much! I tried to download it just now and set it aside for later use, but the Apple webpage wouldn't let me have it, I guess because I'm using a Mac so old that it couldn't be upgraded to Catalina.

When I clicked Download, a message popped up that said, "We could not complete your purchase. This version of Mac OS cannot be installed on this computer." So I guess it won't let you have it on any computer that couldn't install it. It also looks like it's a purchase instead of a free download. That's all right, but I thought Mac OSs were free to Mac owners. I guess I was wrong, or else they've decided to monetize it.

But there it is, anyway. Thanks for finding it for me. I'll go back later and download it using a computer that actually could install it, if I wanted to do so, or else, even better, I'll get it with my nephew's computer after I install the new hard drive in it.

Again, thanks much for the help! It is much appreciated!

Tom

 

[Rod]

I think it just uses that term,"purchase" to mean download. MacOS Catalina is free.

 

[pm-r]

Last question first, Catalina is still available but not by the usual method.

It seems that it, along with several other different versions, it is still available via the link Bob provided previously:

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support

Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system on compatible Mac computers.

support.apple.com

- Patrick
=======

 

[Tuppy]

Thanks again fellows. You're very kind to help me out like this. I've bookmarked that download page on the Apple website.

But I've also really lucked out this morning, and I may not need to download the system from Apple after all. It stems from the fact that I recently bought my daughter a used MacBook from a company selling them on Ebay.

This company makes a business of buying used Apple laptops, refurbishing them, and selling them with warranties. They even have a website for it, but for some reason they prefer to do their selling on Ebay.

Since they had offered to install any operating system on the laptop that we wanted, up to the latest it can handle, I got to thinking: this company must have copies of the OS installers. Maybe they would do a customer a favor and furnish me with one.

So yesterday I sent them an e-mail asking if they could provide me with an installer for Catalina, and here is the response I got this morning:

"Hello. Thank you for your purchase. We do have bootable MacOS Catalina flash drives. We'll have one mailed out to you on Monday along with instructions. Please find the shipping details below."

Talk about good luck! When I get that flash drive, I should be all set to install Catalina on my nephew's new SSD hard drive, after I install it for him. But just in case there's a problem with installation from a flash drive, I'll also keep a bookmark to that Apple download page. One way or another, I should be able to install Catalina.

 

[Slydude]

There shouldn't be a problem booting from a flash drive. Just remember to hold down the Option key immediately after pressing the power button.

 

[Tuppy]

There shouldn't be a problem booting from a flash drive. Just remember to hold down the Option key immediately after pressing the power button.

Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to do that.

 

[Slydude]

I should mention one caveat. If you are using a Bluetooth keyboard some older keyboards aren't recognized quickly enough. If you do not see a screen with an icon for your flash drive try using a wired keyboard instead. Even a Windows keyboard will work. Just use the ALT key instead of option.

 

[Tuppy]

I should mention one caveat. If you are using a Bluetooth keyboard some older keyboards aren't recognized quickly enough. If you do not see a screen with an icon for your flash drive try using a wired keyboard instead. Even a Windows keyboard will work. Just use the ALT key instead of option.

Got it, thanks. I've never had a Bluetooth keyboard, so it won't be a problem, but I'll remember this information if I ever do use one.

 

[Slydude]

I've only had that issue with one or two older Bluetooth keyboards. Newer models, even the cheaper ones I've tried, haven't been an issue.

 

[Rod]

As you already found out Catalina is not compatible with your device, this is a hardware compatibility issue. So it follows that you may not be able to boot into Catalina from a USB drive plugged into your device either, however you don't actually need to. You only need to instal Catalina on a attached/connected SSD.

I should say at this point, please make sure you have a full backup of your device, just in case.

So, before you try booting your device from the flash drive, honestly I'm in uncharted waters here, try just connecting the flash drive to your computer normally, open it and you should see the Instal macOS Catalina package. Connect the SSD then try launching the Catalina installer. It will either launch or fail.
If it launches you may be able to select a different destination other than your Macintosh HD ie the SSD.

Honestly I have never attempted to instal an incompatible macOS to another destination via a bootable installer on a flash drive.

The same process above should work on your nephew's MBP though. Just as you imagined it on your own unless Monterey prevents it. Again I'm in uncharted waters because the normal process would be to launch Disk Utility from the flash drive and erase/format the internal drive prior to installing the older macOS.

However you go about it do make sure your and your nephew's data is all backed up first.

 

[Tuppy]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, we're first going to remove all his data off the hard drive that's in his MacBook and put it aside temporarily on an external hard drive for safekeeping. Then we're going to open up the laptop and swap out the old hard drive for a new 1TB SSD drive that comes with OS High Sierra pre-installed on it. (The Ebay ad for the drive is here). High Sierra is an OS two versions lower than Catalina. That internal drive should arrive in the mail before next Friday. So I can't do anything until it gets here.

Once the new drive is installed in the laptop, though, and it's all buttoned back up, it will launch into High Sierra, and that's when I'll put the flash drive into one of its USB ports and activate the Catalina upgrade. So the flash drive and its Catalina installer should be fully compatible with Nephew's 2015 MacBook.

I had thought that the Catalina installer was a separate app that I could download from the Apple website onto my own desktop computer and then just set aside until we needed it. Once I had it, I would have put it on a flash drive myself. Since the laptop will already be running in High Sierra when we go to upgrade it to Catalina, I didn't think the flash drive had to be bootable, and maybe it really doesn't have to be. I figured I could just drag the app from the flash drive onto the laptop's hard drive and then activate it from there. Maybe I can. All these things remain to be seen.

However, as I found out, the Apple website analyzes any computer that's trying to download an OS installer, and and it won't allow that installer to download onto any computer that can't run it, even though you don't intend to run it on that computer. My 2010 Mac Pro apparently can't run Catalina (I'm stuck in El Capitan, for software compatibility reasons) so Apple wouldn't let me have it. Okay, no sweat, since I'll soon have that bootable flash drive installer, courtesy of another Ebay company that I've bought things from.

Anyway, now I'm waiting for the SSD drive to arrive from the Ebay seller, and also for the bootable flash drive to arrive from the other source, and then I'll install the drive in the nephew's laptop and we'll go from there and see what happens. I'll report the results here, in case anyone's interested.

Tom