Bootcamp/XP overwrites OS X on Mac??? help!!!

fifthmanstandin · Mar 14, 2007

Hi, my friend recently recieved a second hand iMac desktop, one of those newer 24 inch models, niether of us are very MAC savy so I though this would be a good place to ask some questions . The os is OS X 10.4.8.

He was decided that he wanted to install the application "Bootcamp". My understanding of this program is that it will split the hardrive space in two and install Windows XP in one half and OS X on the other. While I was not personally there when he went through the application process he has told me that when he was installing the program and went to install XP it was his understanding that at some point in the installation he was supposed to back up the OS X drivers and what not, according to him this never happened and he proceeded through the installation.

Long story short, I only saw the end product, which is just XP on his mac system, if you restart the computer and hold "C" according to the bootcamp screenshots you should be able to select which partition to boot up, either OS X or XP. When you actually do this on his computer you only have the option of XP, there is no other icon to select from. This leads me to believe that he completely wrote over OS X.

The main problem with this is that because all the drivers were not copied into XP from OS X, he cannot read airport, or any other applications that require drivers, it's essentially a desktop screen and that's all.

My question: how do I/he/we fix this, to at least get OS X back, we tried re-formatting the system with an OS X disc version 10.4.1 but like I said he already has 10.4.8 on it, and I'm assuming this causes compatibility problems with a mac (why is that? you can install Windows 2000 over XP if you re-format the hardrive, why can't a mac do that?) So what are the options?

I thank you all for any help you can offer. Thanks,

cwa107 · Mar 14, 2007

Relax, the OS X install is still there, it's just that XP is set to be the default "startup disk".

During the Bootcamp installation process, you create a driver CD to use within Windows to install drivers specific to the Mac hardware. This CD should be inserted and run after XP is installed.

To switch between OS X and Mac OS, hold the Option key down when you turn the computer on. It will then let you choose which OS to run (don't worry, OS X is still there). Once the drivers are installed on XP, you can either set the default OS to Mac OS from the Control Panel or, you can boot up to OS X using the Option key during startup, go into System Preferences and choose your default Startup Disk from there.

fifthmanstandin · Mar 14, 2007

that's the thing though, according to him, he went through the entire process without creating a disc of any sort, and I just got off the phone with him and he confirmed it as well. The thing is that the computer he has and my computer came as a deal from the place he got, and I bought it from him. Both are 24" iMac's and both have 10.4.8 so is there a way I could back up a disc of my drivers onto a cd and give it to him to do, or should I go through with bootcamp on my computer, not be as stupid, and back up the drivers on mine. Any advice?

cwa107 · Mar 14, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
that's the thing though, according to him, he went through the entire process without creating a disc of any sort. Is that possible?

I guess it's possible to cancel the creation of the disc (it's pretty clear that it wants you to create a drivers disc though), but it's not a biggie - you can use the Bootcamp assistant which should now be present in your Applications/Utilities folder to create that disc when you boot into Mac OS.

My guess is that your friend hastily went through the Bootcamp wizard without reading the prompts, my only suggestion would be to be careful when you modify partitions and take your time - although it is an easy process, anytime you significantly modify the disk structure, it's not something to take lightly.

fifthmanstandin · Mar 15, 2007

Thanks for you help,

I tried creating a drivers disc from the bootcamp assistand and he tried it on his, It got halfway and gave a fatal error message and then when you hit ok, it quits the install wizard.
XP will now somehow read his graphics card but none of the other drivers. Any ideas?

Now I don't know much about Macs or how to re-format them, but do I have to a have a boot disc that's the same as the current version of OS X (10.4.8) that he has? Because we tried to re-format the hardrive using his friend's OS X 10.1.2, or whatever, disc that came with his friend's new macbook. We popped it in and held c, tried to get it to reformat it and for some reason it said it wouldn't do reformat and to restart the computer. We tried it 3 times and got nothing. The mac is second hand like I said, so when we got it we had to create a new admin password and all. So is there a possibility that some sort of admin access is limiiting him from installing the drivers?
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cwa107 · Mar 15, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
Thanks for you help,

I tried creating a drivers disc from the bootcamp assistand and he tried it on his, It got halfway and gave a fatal error message and then when you hit ok, it quits the install wizard.
XP will now somehow read his graphics card but none of the other drivers. Any ideas?

What kind of XP CD did you use and where did it come from? You need either a non-branded OEM CD (for system builders, not a Dell/HP/Gateway, etc. version) or a retail version - either one needs to have SP2 integrated into the disc. Also, an XP CD that has been used to install another system that is currently being used will not work.

Now I don't know much about Macs or how to re-format them, but do I have to a have a boot disc that's the same as the current version of OS X (10.4.8) that he has?

I could be wrong, but I believe any boot disc that works with Intel Macs should be OK, since you're formatting the drive and starting anew. Where's the disc that came with the machine?

Because we tried to re-format the hardrive using his friend's OS X 10.1.2, or whatever, disc that came with his friend's new macbook. We popped it in and held c, tried to get it to reformat it and for some reason it said it wouldn't do reformat and to restart the computer. We tried it 3 times and got nothing. The mac is second hand like I said, so when we got it we had to create a new admin password and all. So is there a possibility that some sort of admin access is limiiting him from installing the drivers?
Edit/Delete Message

It fails when you're formatting the hard disk - or does it fail during the OS install? If the former, I'd be willing to bet you have a bad hard drive. If the latter, the disc you're using might have drivers specific to the MacBook. Just a guess.

fifthmanstandin · Mar 15, 2007

He used an XP cd that came as a full version on his girlfriend's computer, and it uses the serial number that came on the case. So assumeably it has been installed into her computer. But even if it has been installed in another system, if it hasn't been registered online (because he can't get the computer to get a signal) what would be the problem, I'm not a programmer and I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I'd just like to know so that I could tell him, because that's the first thing he's going to say.

Someone on another forum told me that OS X boot discs are specific for induvidual models of Macs, so a macbook won't work for an iMac, according to him. you can see it here :http://www.macusers.org/showthread.php?p=18771#post18771

and from what I understand the disc we used was 10.1.2 OS X and that we borrowed from a friend it's from an iMac, I could be misunderstanding, but that's what he's told me.

Here's the reason we don't have any software or anything that came with both of our computers"

about a year ago my friend loaned a good amount of money to an aquaintance of his, about a month ago he saw the guy again who has some ties to a computer place with surplus crap, So the guy pays my friend back in two 24" iMac's, traded as is, no refunds, only the unit and the mouse/keyboards. He agreed and so there are absolutely no ways to get any of the software or anything else.

So there's a possibility that there's some security sitting in the way of us re-formatting, we had to re-do the admin password in order to access pretty much anything (we did this using the boot disc that his friend had, and it worked, but we couldn't re-install OS X)

It fails during the OS X install, you can select from the options on the toolbar atop the screen but once you get to the install part it says that you have to restart the computer because it won't work (the exact message escapes my memory at the moment)
It can't be a bad hardrive because before his dumbass started messing with it it worked fine, all of the re-install attempts came before he installed bootcamp and screwed it all up, and I tried the same process on my working MAC and it told me the same thing, that it wouldn't work and to restart.

and if the drivers on the disc were specific to the disc, the drivers were said to be on the second disc according to the label, would that still cause a problem even with using the first disc?

Thanks for all your help up to here, it's a really frusterating situation so I thank you. The main reason I'm so gung-** about all this is that now because it's not working he very well may pawn this $1900 computer and if I can sweet talk him I may end up with two of them, wouldn't that be sweet?

cwa107 · Mar 16, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
He used an XP cd that came as a full version on his girlfriend's computer, and it uses the serial number that came on the case. So assumeably it has been installed into her computer. But even if it has been installed in another system, if it hasn't been registered online (because he can't get the computer to get a signal) what would be the problem, I'm not a programmer and I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I'd just like to know so that I could tell him, because that's the first thing he's going to say.

When you install Windows XP on any computer, XP generates a code based on the configuration of your computer. That code is then transmitted back to Microsoft and Microsoft sends an "activation key". This "activates" XP on that computer. So, if you then try to take the same disc and install on another computer, if those codes don't agree, XP won't activate. I believe you have a 30-day grace period to get the computer activated before it is disabled. That process doesn't necessarily need to be run over the Internet, it can also happen over the phone, or if the computer was pre-loaded with XP from the manufacturer, the manufacturer has already activated the machine. Either way, it is neither legal nor technically feasible to use an XP CD on more than one computer unless it is a volume license CD (aka Corporate edition). Also, if the computer came from a major manufacturer like Dell/HP/Gateway/Compaq, etc., that product ID is tied to that machine make specifically. You can't use it on another computer.

Someone on another forum told me that OS X boot discs are specific for induvidual models of Macs, so a macbook won't work for an iMac, according to him. you can see it here :http://www.macusers.org/showthread.php?p=18771#post18771

and from what I understand the disc we used was 10.1.2 OS X and that we borrowed from a friend it's from an iMac, I could be misunderstanding, but that's what he's told me.

Sounds like not only is it model specific, it's not an Intel version of Mac OS. The only version thus far that works with Intel models is 10.4.x.

Here's the reason we don't have any software or anything that came with both of our computers"

about a year ago my friend loaned a good amount of money to an aquaintance of his, about a month ago he saw the guy again who has some ties to a computer place with surplus crap, So the guy pays my friend back in two 24" iMac's, traded as is, no refunds, only the unit and the mouse/keyboards. He agreed and so there are absolutely no ways to get any of the software or anything else.

You could try calling Apple and getting a re-issue of the CD. I'm not sure how they get you to authenticate ownership, but you can't buy a retail copy at this point. The only Intel version of OS X is the one that came with your machine.

So there's a possibility that there's some security sitting in the way of us re-formatting, we had to re-do the admin password in order to access pretty much anything (we did this using the boot disc that his friend had, and it worked, but we couldn't re-install OS X)

It fails during the OS X install, you can select from the options on the toolbar atop the screen but once you get to the install part it says that you have to restart the computer because it won't work (the exact message escapes my memory at the moment)

I don't think it's a security setting. You can wipe a hard drive to do a new install without having an administrator password since you're not booting into the currently installed OS, you're starting a new instance of the OS booted from the CD. I think it's more likely that you just don't have the right disc for your machine.

It can't be a bad hardrive because before his dumbass started messing with it it worked fine, all of the re-install attempts came before he installed bootcamp and screwed it all up, and I tried the same process on my working MAC and it told me the same thing, that it wouldn't work and to restart.

and if the drivers on the disc were specific to the disc, the drivers were said to be on the second disc according to the label, would that still cause a problem even with using the first disc?

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure. But I'm starting to think at this point, you just need to get the right disc.

Thanks for all your help up to here, it's a really frusterating situation so I thank you. The main reason I'm so gung-** about all this is that now because it's not working he very well may pawn this $1900 computer and if I can sweet talk him I may end up with two of them, wouldn't that be sweet?

Sounds good to me, but I can't imagine that Apple would charge you more than a few bucks for a replacement/reissue of your existing install disc.

fifthmanstandin · Mar 16, 2007

Ok I see now, however, even if there is a problem with activation and what not, it still should function properly and cause no serious errors in it's function with bootcamp and the Mac itself right?

So the guy on the other forum suggested a firewire target disk mode, connecting the two together with a 6 pin to 6 pin firewire cable and then somehow re-writing his hardrive. I'm unsure about how the specifics go beyond what apple.com said, but the guy's probably going to give me some pointers.
Now that I have both of the computers side by side on my desk it makes it alot easier to deal with.

Another thing, I just checked to verify:
- Holding C at the startup on shows the Windows XP harddrive icon, no mac at all

- Holding shift for the safemode startup does nothing, it goes to windows xp logo and then to the welcome screen and then the desktop

- I burnt a new copy of my os X drivers for his computer just in case there was a problem with the burn that caused it to stop at a certain point, the new cd goes through the installation and gets to the "registering product" phase at the end of the installation and says that the

"software you are installing has not passed Windows logo testing to verify its compatility with Windows XP continueing your installation of this software may impair or destabilize the correct operation of your system either immediately or in the future. Microsoft strongly recommends that you stop this installation now and contact the software vendor for software that has passed Windows Logo testing"

now I'm stopping the install just in case, would you advise I continue, windows has a way of making things seem worse than they are, so I wonder.

cwa107 · Mar 16, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
Ok I see now, however, even if there is a problem with activation and what not, it still should function properly and cause no serious errors in it's function with bootcamp and the Mac itself right?

If the disc is an OEM restore disc, it will contain drivers that are specific to that company's model of PC that will cause the kind of problems you are seeing

So the guy on the other forum suggested a firewire target disk mode, connecting the two together with a 6 pin to 6 pin firewire cable and then somehow re-writing his hardrive. I'm unsure about how the specifics go beyond what apple.com said, but the guy's probably going to give me some pointers.
Now that I have both of the computers side by side on my desk it makes it alot easier to deal with.

This would work if you have one good, working machine. You can then boot up to Mac OS on the good machine and then format the target machine's hard drive using the good machine.

Another thing, I just checked to verify:
- Holding C at the startup on shows the Windows XP harddrive icon, no mac at all

- Holding shift for the safemode startup does nothing, it goes to windows xp logo and then to the welcome screen and then the desktop

Sounds like the Mac partition is completely hosed.

- I burnt a new copy of my os X drivers for his computer just in case there was a problem with the burn that caused it to stop at a certain point, the new cd goes through the installation and gets to the "registering product" phase at the end of the installation and says that the

"software you are installing has not passed Windows logo testing to verify its compatility with Windows XP continueing your installation of this software may impair or destabilize the correct operation of your system either immediately or in the future. Microsoft strongly recommends that you stop this installation now and contact the software vendor for software that has passed Windows Logo testing"

now I'm stopping the install just in case, would you advise I continue, windows has a way of making things seem worse than they are, so I wonder.

Windows XP will do this anytime you try to install a driver (any driver - not just Apple's) that is not "signed" by Microsoft - meaning that the driver has not passed Microsoft's "Windows Hardware Quality Labs" tests. This is totally expected because Bootcamp is still in beta as are the drivers designed to work with it. I'd imagine that once Bootcamp graduates to "production" status, you won't see these messages.

My thoughts on this is that if you are still intent on getting a good, working XP install, go ahead. If you're just going to wipe the disk and start all over again to try to get a good working OS X installation, don't bother since the XP install is just going to get overwritten when you format the drive.

fifthmanstandin · Mar 16, 2007

alright so I've got the double ended firewire cable, I've plugged the two up, what now? how do I re-format the target computer with my OS X?

keep in mind that I do no have a boot disc at all.

cwa107 · Mar 16, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
alright so I've got the double ended firewire cable, I've plugged the two up, what now? how do I re-format the target computer with my OS X?

keep in mind that I do no have a boot disc at all.

I'm not sure as I've never done that before. I believe the guy on the other forum was the one that was going to walk you through that procedure. I'd imagine that you would attach the two, turn on the bad one, hold the option key down so that it doesn't try to boot up (leave it sitting at the select disk screen). Then turn on the other (good machine), boot into OS X, open the Disk Utility and then format the other machine's hard disk.

Obviously you'll need an install disc to put the operating system back on the machine once it's been successfully formatted. Have you called Apple yet?

fifthmanstandin · Mar 16, 2007

Because of the nature how these computers were procured through that guy owing my friend money I feel that it's a little on the safe side to not get apple involved, in any other situation I would but it's the authentication of the customer that I have an issue with.

Yes, with the firewire target disk mode you hook the two together, boot the target computer, hold T at the startup and the firewire icon appears on the target computer. It's the part where I have to re-format the hardrive and what not that I have an issue with

cwa107 · Mar 16, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
Because of the nature how these computers were procured through that guy owing my friend money I feel that it's a little on the safe side to not get apple involved, in any other situation I would but it's the authentication of the customer that I have an issue with.

Yes, with the firewire target disk mode you hook the two together, boot the target computer, hold T at the startup and the firewire icon appears on the target computer. It's the part where I have to re-format the hardrive and what not that I have an issue with

Does one of the machines have a working version of OS X? If so, all you need to do is to boot the working machine with the target machine attached. Then, open the Disk Utility on the working machine, select the target machine's hard drive and click "erase".

fifthmanstandin · Mar 17, 2007

yeah, I spent the past four hours with that guy on AIM getting live help from him, it goes like this:

the disk erases fine, the reformat will not for some god aweful reason work
we tried three different ways

eventually we got the carbon copy cloner program and actually used the target computer as the "external firewire hardrive" and copied my whole system onto his in backup style. the only problem is that it did it as an odd partition and when you start it up the computer says it has no OS and that it needs a boot disc, however if you hold option the "untitled" partition icon shows up and will boot to OS X....the catch is that absolutely none of the applications work whatsoever, they all have superimposed black questionmarks on them like some sign of evil omniscience protruding from the screen, even the system preference program won't work.

So I'm talking to him and some other people about starting it up in target disk mode again and copying the apps folder into the partition.

But ideally I'd get this to be the main volume, because it seems that it boots automatically to whatever unholy empty void that resides on the other side of that partition.

There's also some odd random folders that are on the target computer that are not on mine in the hardrive dis window.

I dunno, any ideas?

dan828 · Mar 17, 2007

fifthmanstandin said:
Because of the nature how these computers were procured through that guy owing my friend money I feel that it's a little on the safe side to not get apple involved, in any other situation I would but it's the authentication of the customer that I have an issue with.

In other words, you suspect or know for a fact that these computers have been stolen. The safe side being you and your friend not wanting to go to jail for receiving stolen property. Considering the cost of the two computers, if you and your friend are in possession of them and you know (or in some jurisdictions just suspect) that they are stolen, it's probably a felony.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm

If this isn't the case, my apologies, but it seemed implicit in your statement.