Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?

usagora said:

Yes, I thought about that typo after I had already posted and was doing something else. Corrected.

Ok, so now I'm confused. You said in your previous post that you had logged into iCloud to stop the annoying messages. So I'm not sure how when you go to System Preferences > iCloud that it shows that you're not logged in. I assume you mean El Capitan, and as far as I remember there was nothing different between iCloud settings in El Capitan than later versions of macOS. I guess as long as you're not getting any messages prompting you to sign into iCloud, then all is well, but that's definitely where you would go, were you signed in, in order to enable or disable the various iCloud services.

Click to expand...

Sorry about the confusion.
When I posted I had to log in to stop the iCloud messages, that was on the 2017 MacBook Air running El Capitan.
And that was on a pop-up that showed up in the middle of the screen without me doing anything.
It seemed like the Mac trying to log inti iCloud and couldn't.
When I just closed that pop-up window it would go away for a short while and then come back with the same message until I finally relented and logged in.

The iCloud pane that comes up in system preferences > iCloud is a different layout but it also has the sign in options - I was looking for an enable/disable prompt.
I brought up that from a Mac Mini also running the same version of El Capitan as the 2017 MacBook Air.
Both computers were bought from Apple under my name.

I'll try to include a screen shot here of the system preferences > iCloud pane I see - there is no enable/disable.
Maybe one has to log in before one can disable....... which forces one to create an Apple ID

Yeah Patrick, that's another annoying one

I get it on the 2012 Mini which can actually run Mojave but there is no option allowing one to say "No thank-you"....don't bug me again.

krs said:

Sorry about the confusion.
When I posted I had to log in to stop the iCloud messages, that was on the 2017 MacBook Air running El Capitan.
And that was on a pop-up that showed up in the middle of the screen without me doing anything.
It seemed like the Mac trying to log inti iCloud and couldn't.
When I just closed that pop-up window it would go away for a short while and then come back with the same message until I finally relented and logged in.

The iCloud pane that comes up in system preferences > iCloud is a different layout but it also has the sign in options - I was looking for an enable/disable prompt.
I brought up that from a Mac Mini also running the same version of El Capitan as the 2017 MacBook Air.
Both computers were bought from Apple under my name.

I'll try to include a screen shot here of the system preferences > iCloud pane I see - there is no enable/disable.
Maybe one has to log in before one can disable....... which forces one to create an Apple ID

Click to expand...

Yes, just create an Apple ID (I assumed you had one...it definitely won't hurt anything), sign into iCloud, and disable all the services. You don't have to use any of the services just because you're signed in.

Maybe one has to log in before one can disable....... which forces one to create an Apple ID

Click to expand...

A user needs an AppleID account to get to the Mac App Store, and, I think, to get updates to the OS as well. But that last may have changed when they moved system updates to System Preferences instead of the store. Nevertheless, AppleID is how all synchronization takes place. You can see what might be synced by looking at the iCloud pane in System Preferences. The system wants to be logged in because periodically it checks with iCloud to see if any of your other devices that may be registered to the same AppleID have made any changes that need syncing. In your case, if you don't have any other devices you still need to log into your AppleID because the check still takes place, finds nothing to sync and shuts down. Once you have logged in, it should not bother you again unless somehow the login fails.

As for the problem Patrick is talking about, Patrick, don't bother clicking on "Details." It just takes you to the Mojave home page where you can download it, but it won't install unless your system is on the list of acceptable systems. I got that on my old iMac for a while, then it stopped.

I do have an Apple ID, but that is not the point.

It's another example of Apple trying to shove their eco-system down your throat.

iCloud should be an option that one can enable, not something where one needs to create an Apple ID to turn it off.

iCloud should be an option that one can enable, not something where one needs to create an Apple ID to turn it off.

Click to expand...

And it is. Open iCloud in the System Preferences, uncheck all of the options for things to sync. Done. You have opted out of iCloud.

But the OS will still do a check, so you will need to provide your AppleID and log in unless you want the popup. But you won't have anything in the ecosystem.

MacInWin said:

A user needs an AppleID account to get to the Mac App Store...........

Click to expand...

Sure, to get something from the App Store it makes sense that Apple gets some information especially when they want to bill you.

But here we are talking about a cloud storage service that I don't even want and will never use.

But here we are talking about a cloud storage service that I don't even want and will never use.

Click to expand...

Fine, don't use it. Unchecking "iCloud Drive" will disable anything going there. It's totally optional, as are all the other iCloud services.

MacInWin said:

And it is. Open iCloud in the System Preferences, uncheck all of the options for things to sync. Done. You have opted out of iCloud.

Click to expand...

And where do I see all these options to uncheck when I open iCloud in system preferences?
I posted a screen shot - there is nothing to uncheck - just options to force you to log in.

As I said, log in and the pane will change to show what can be synchronized. De-select each of them and you are done. Don't click on "sign out" or you will have to log in again when the popup appears.

MacInWin said:

Fine, don't use it. Unchecking "iCloud Drive" will disable anything going there. It's totally optional, as are all the other iCloud services.

Click to expand...

There is no option to uncheck "iCloud Drive" or disable it - that is my whole point.

When you log in, the pane changes to show this: As you can see, first item is "iCloud Drive." And it is selectable or de-selectable.

krs said:

Sure, to get something from the App Store it makes sense that Apple gets some information especially when they want to bill you.

But here we are talking about a cloud storage service that I don't even want and will never use.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine the vast majority of Mac users use at least one iCloud service--likely more--whether it be Find my Mac (or iPhone/iPad), syncing notes/reminder/calendars/mail, etc. so it sort of makes sense that the system would assume you'd be signed in and thus prompt you when you're not. But Apple IDs are free, and I don't see any downside to obtaining one, even if it were just to "appease" macOS by signing into iCloud

Create an Apple ID
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316

Then if you ever do decide to use a service that requires an Apple ID, you're already set.

Jonathan, it doesn't matter whether or not the vast majority use or don't use the free service. krs has decided that the service is not usable for any purpose he or she might have. So the objection raised is that krs is being "nagged" to log in for something unwanted. There is a way to stop the nag, which is what I have described, namely, log in and deselect any and all services. But the OS will still need an AppleID and password because of the checks it makes.

I agree with you that probably 99% do use at least some of the services offered by Apple. I use most of them, as you can see. But it's still optional. Beyond the log in for AppleID, nobody is being forced to use it at all.

MacInWin said:

As I said, log in and the pane will change to show what can be synchronized. De-select each of them and you are done. Don't click on "sign out" or you will have to log in again when the popup appears.

Click to expand...

This whole discussion is about Apple trying to force the user to provide information to access a service he has no interest in using just to turn it off.
I assume if I had bought my first Mac at Staples and therefore didn't have an Apple ID, I would go through the same exercise - being forced to create an Apple ID so I could turn that annoying pop-up off.

I get that more and more on websites, they are looking for information that is not actually needed.

MacInWin said:

Jonathan, it doesn't matter whether or not the vast majority use or don't use the free service. krs has decided that the service is not usable for any purpose he or she might have. So the objection raised is that krs is being "nagged" to log in for something unwanted. There is a way to stop the nag, which is what I have described, namely, log in and deselect any and all services. But the OS will still need an AppleID and password because of the checks it makes.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you see my point.
As to the bolded part in your post - I don't think that can be true.
Some of the Macs in my family are used completely off line for security reasons, none of those ever complained that they can't access the net for whatever checks you are thinking of.

MacInWin said:

Jonathan, it doesn't matter whether or not the vast majority use or don't use the free service. krs has decided that the service is not usable for any purpose he or she might have. So the objection raised is that krs is being "nagged" to log in for something unwanted. There is a way to stop the nag, which is what I have described, namely, log in and deselect any and all services. But the OS will still need an AppleID and password because of the checks it makes.

I agree with you that probably 99% do use at least some of the services offered by Apple. I use most of them, as you can see. But it's still optional. Beyond the log in for AppleID, nobody is being forced to use it at all.

Click to expand...

You've misread me. I was simply pointing out why the default behavior of the OS is to check that you're signed in - I never suggested that krs use any of the services or that it wasn't optional. I was saying exactly what you are saying - create an Apple ID, sign into iCloud, then disable all iCloud services to prevent the "nagging" messages without actually being forced to use iCloud. Thought that was pretty clear from my post. In fact, I suggested that back in post 63 before you had even replied

Well, to create an AppleID you aren't really proving anything except your choice of AppleID and password, so it's not much to ask, IMHO. To use the store you used to have to provide a credit card, but I think even that is no longer required just to have access. And you don't even HAVE to create an AppleID at all. Of course, then you can't use the Mac App Store or Messages, or a host of other services, and you will have to put up with the popup nagging you, but you don't HAVE to create anything.

Also, as a further detail for you, once you have logged in and can see the menu items I posted, the "Options..." beside the iCloud Drive will let you specify exactly what you want synced to iCloud to that cloud. Not everything has to be synced, it's not all-or-none. I have purposefully NOT synced "Desktop and Documents" because if you do that, and later uncheck that box, you lose what's on the Desktop and in Documents. You do get a warning, and an option to save it before it's erased, but some folks who don't bother to read before clicking have found their files disappearing.

And as for the bolded part, you may be correct. But I have a friend who, like you, didn't have an AppleID and she was nagged relentlessly to log in. Once she created an AppleID and login, the nag quit. Maybe if all the boxes are unchecked, the nag will stop and maybe then you can Sign Out. Worth a try. If it nags even with everything unchecked, then just give the log in and never go to the store or get any software updates. As I said, you don't have to participate in the eco-system beyond creating the login/password.

krs said:

There is no option to uncheck "iCloud Drive" or disable it - that is my whole point.

Click to expand...

There is a well hidden (but easy to access) control panel.

Apple menu --> About This Mac --> Storage tab --> Manage... button

(Only exists from High Sierra onwards.)

See these articles for a lot more information:

https://www.maketecheasier.com/macos-sierras-purgeable-space/

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206996

@krs

I have considerable sympathy for your position.

At the same time, getting rid of the "nuisance" of iCloud reminders is very easily dispensed with.

You reasonably ask why do I have to sign in, in order to deselect all options because I don't want them; and keep signed in in order to get rid of the annoying reminders? (my translation of your words).

The answer is that iCloud is an integral part of your Apple ID.

1. In order to use an Apple device, in reality, you need an Apple ID - which means a valid email address and a strong password. For many, the email address is [email protected].

2. The Apple ID carries with it the choice of using iCloud to sync just about anything native to Apple. But that is optional, ie your choice.

3. Apple ID/iCloud adds an important layer of security. Should you lose or have stolen, any Apple device; you can use Find my "Device". You can also wipe the entire content from that device if it was stolen.

4. It is the means by which you can prove your identity when purchasing music, videos, books etc.

5. It is a means of proving your identity when updating or upgrading any operating system whether macOS or iOS.

What I'm trying to convey is that your Apple ID and iCloud are integral and essential for any Mac user. But; whereas Apple ID is mandatory, the uses you put the iCloud component to, is in your hands. It's not asking much to sign in and refuse all the features that go with it.

Ian