Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?

pm-r said:

Methinks you missed the main more logical reason — money. It's a fair bit cheaper to solder in the components during manufacturing production.
But definitely a good Apple PR explanation you provided.

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I have a hard time swallowing that marketing spin..... but that's possible because I spent ten years in Marketing and we had to come up with this type of "spin" quite often.

Money is definitely a factor, the other I think, is this constant drive to make laptops thinner all the time.
Apple had to come up with a thinner MagSafe connector for their last MacBook... vintages before they went with USB-C, on the last 2017 MBa they had to place the USB 3.0 ports on opposite sides of the Mac, not both on the same side as previously.
Including connectors for RAM chips probably needed extra space they just did not have.

Rod Sprague said:

For me a portable SSD could not carry a lifetimes collection of memories and valuable documents...

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Why not?

Are you under the miss-impression that an SSD can't be found that is big enough or that it won't be reliable enough?

And I only recommend a portable SSD as a third tier backup. Are you under the miss-impression that a portable SSD isn't as good as a cloud backup?

pm-r said:

Methinks you missed the main more logical reason — money. It's a fair bit cheaper to solder in the components during manufacturing production.

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Is it? I don't think that it is. (I also think that soldering-in RAM results in a lower profile, and hence thinner Macs. And consumers definitely seem to prefer thinner Macs.)

But if you want to stick with the conspiracy theory that Apple is a greedy company that only does things to screw their customers and make more money, I doubt that I can dissuade you.

If that's the case, why stick with Apple at all? Why not find yourself a company that has their customer's best interests in mind? Or is it that ALL companies are evil? Maybe everyone is evil? Thank goodness we have our tinfoil hats! ;D

Randy B. Singer said:

Is it? I don't think that it is.

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Well....think back when Macs did have RAM slots and one could order a Mac with different RAM capacity from Apple.
The difference in price for more RAM was almost double than what one could buy the RAM for from a reputable supplier like Crucial and one also received no credit in the Apple pricing for the base RAM that was replaced.
For a while there was also the notion that one needed special RAM for the Mac which of course came at a premium compared to "PC RAM".

Soldering the RAM right on the board eliminates the problem of people buying Macs with the least amount of RAM and upgrading themselves.
Actually, since the RAM is only expandable when purchased, it makes the most sense for the user to get the maximum RAM right off the bat to accomodate future OSs RAM requirements - previously one just added RAM as needed.

But if you want to stick with the conspiracy theory that Apple is a greedy company that only does things to screw their customers and make more money, I doubt that I can dissuade you. ... ... ... Thank goodness we have our tinfoil hats!

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Good grief!!! How did you read all that into what I mentioned and suggested in my short post??? Wow!!!





- Patrick
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What has not been mentioned is that laptops are now appliances. The days of "tinkering" with them are going, going, (nearly) gone. Much like the iDevices, you configure it at purchase time, live with it as long as you are satisfied with it, then get a new appliance. And by having fewer things for the owner to tinker with, Apple has real savings in support costs. No more calls to Apple about issues with incompatible memory.

MacInWin said:

What has not been mentioned is that laptops are now appliances. The days of "tinkering" with them are going, going, (nearly) gone.

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Appliances can't be tinkered with, huh? You obviously haven't met Tim the Tool Man Taylor ;D

krs said:

Well....think back when Macs did have RAM slots and one could order a Mac with different RAM capacity from Apple.
The difference in price for more RAM was almost double than what one could buy the RAM for from a reputable supplier like Crucial and one also received no credit in the Apple pricing for the base RAM that was replaced.

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Most folks didn't understand that, and thought that it was a plot against them by greedy Apple.

What they didn't understand is that RAM is a commodity item and its value fluctuates quite a bit. But Apple isn't free to wait for the lowest market price. They need RAM when they need it, and they need to purchase an appropriate amount when they need it. So they can't wait for the lowest prices on RAM chips before purchasing. They often have to purchase RAM at higher prices. If Apple purchased a huge supply of RAM at a low market price (to stock up), they might end up being stuck with millions of dollars worth of outdated RAM if technology changes overnight, as it often does.

pm-r said:

Good grief!!! How did you read all that into what I mentioned and suggested in my short post??? Wow!!!

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Sorry if I misunderstood the point you were making. You'll have to be more clear.

usagora said:

Appliances can't be tinkered with, huh? You obviously haven't met Tim the Tool Man Taylor ;D

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Aaaaaannnndddd, we all know how well that turned out, every time!

Tim the Tool Man Taylor....

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Yikes, hard to believe that was a good twenty years ago... Lot's of tinkering done in those days...





- Patrick
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Randy B. Singer said:

Sorry if I misunderstood the point you were making. You'll have to be more clear.

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Really Randy??? I thought my comment was quite clear and concise, even for a lawyer to understand:

It's a fair bit cheaper to solder in the components during manufacturing production.

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And most companies I know of look at ways to save money. At least good successful companies I know of do.





- Patrick
======

pm-r said:

Really Randy??? I thought my comment was quite clear and concise, even for a lawyer to understand:

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And that's what I responded to. Once again, if you were making a different point, you should make it more clear.

Randy B. Singer said:

And that's what I responded to. Once again, if you were making a different point, you should make it more clear.

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All he said was Apple solders the RAM to save money. You then asserted that he was a conspiracy theorist who believes that "Apple is a greedy company that only does things to screw their customers and make more money." I know there are people out there who do believe that, but you can't conclude that about Patrick based on his post in question.

usagora said:

All he said was Apple solders the RAM to save money. You then asserted that he was a conspiracy theorist who believes that "Apple is a greedy company that only does things to screw their customers and make more money." I know there are people out there who do believe that, but you can't conclude that about Patrick based on his post in question.

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That's what the discussion had been about and he made the assertion that it was about money. If he had a different point he should have stated it.

Randy B. Singer said:

That's what the discussion had been about and he made the assertion that it was about money. If he had a different point he should have stated it.

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The topic was the motivation for soldering the RAM. Patrick thinks it's primarily a monetary decision. That does not mean he thinks they're a greedy company that is out to screw their customers. If he had meant that, he would have said so. Since he didn't say so, you can't assume that's what he meant. Seems pretty simple to me. That's all I'm going to say on that.

usagora said:

The topic was the motivation for soldering the RAM. Patrick thinks it's primarily a monetary decision. That does not mean he thinks they're a greedy company that is out to screw their customers. If he had meant that, he would have said so. Since he didn't say so, you can't assume that's what he meant. Seems pretty simple to me. That's all I'm going to say on that.

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Or...he could simply have said what he meant, and then no one would have made any assumptions whatsoever.

Randy B. Singer said:

That's what the discussion had been about and he made the assertion that it was about money. If he had a different point he should have stated it.

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But, as Jonathan mentioned, if I had meant what you seem to have misunderstood, you can be guaranteed I would have said so, and probably with some emphatic negative comment thrown in as well.

Anyway, regardless of Apple's reasoning, which no non-Apple employee will ever probably know for sure, it is definitely a valid method for reducing costs — soldering components during manufacture.

And I'm done here on this particular offshoot thread thanks and have a nice day as they say...





- Patrick
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pm-r said:

Wow!! I'm assuming that only a lawyer could interpret what I said as an assertion!!! Good grief, I wonder what a judge would have thought???

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Moderators? If Patrick can be a bigot and repeatedly attack me for my profession, does that mean that I can attack him back saying personal things about him?

Patrick's comments have been removed. And we are going to close this thread.

Our thanks to all who have participated.