When the next generation of cellphone tech (UK 5g) comes along will broadband be needed

[Alwyn]

Our Prime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a £5bn ($6bn) spend on broadband. About 30 years ago I remember talking to somebody who worked for Southern Bell telephone. He advised Uruguay on installing a telephone system using cellphone technology.

Many of the young use their mobiles/cellphones all the time instead of a landline.

I suppose there would be capacity constraints for business but for the general public won’t fixed lines become obsolete.

 

[MacInWin]

I suspect that unless governments meddle in the market, that market pressures will determine the future of both 5G and broadband. If 5G providers go too high, people won't sign up for it. If 5G costs are kept low, or competitive with broadband, there will be pressure on broadband to cut prices to compete and retain customers. If a balance is reached, broadband should be slightly cheaper than 5G because of the lack of portability, but still there for the cost-conscious consumer who has no real need for 5G other than speed. But if 5G and broadband are provided by the same provider, with no real competition, then all bets on cost are off. Competition in a free market is what drives pricing down to what the market will bear.

 

[chscag]

Many of the young use their mobiles/cellphones all the time instead of a landline.

Not just young folks, but nowadays here in the US most folks are doing the same thing. Why pay the cost of a landline when a mobile phone is pretty much a necessity? I cancelled my landline years ago and don't miss it at all. And by the way, I'm in the senior citizen category.

Some people that I know also have a VOIP phone in addition to their mobile phone. The VOIP phone is usually part of a TV-Internet package that's offered by many of the popular TV-Internet providers here in the US.

 

[Jonzjob]

VOIP is also common in France Chas, but here in the U.K. it seems to outpriced and above what I for one is willing to pay. As for 5G, my 1st gen Motorola Moto G has 3G, I think, but as I use it for the odd phone call I have no idea as I have not used it since I have had it. I have had it for about 5 years and I work on the principle that if it ain't broke then don't mend it.

I have to admit that I have recently started to use the calendar and I have used the camera a few times.

 

[BethJones]

I just don't see the need for 5G, the 4G I'm using now I have no problems with, just a way to make more money maybe

 

[RadDave]

I just don't see the need for 5G, the 4G I'm using now I have no problems with, just a way to make more money maybe

Hi BethJones - the transition will likely be slow with overlapping technologies living 'side by side' for a number of years, but 5G is a definite 'game changer' for the world, possibly even considered a 'paradigm shift' by some? Below is the opening paragraph from a recent ZDNet article - as already mentioned 5G will potentially replace broadband cabling (likely in stages temporally and geographically), will permit wireless communication of virtually all devices/technologies in one's home, bring 'driverless cars' to a different level, and much more - BUT, 4G will be around for a while so no fear to lose your phone on that technology, and deployment, costs, customer charges will all impact on 5G's introduction - looks exciting to me although as a 'senior citizen', I'm not sure 'how much' of this future I will see in everyday action. Dave

The most important promise made by the proprietors of 5G wireless technology -- the telecommunications service providers, the transmission equipment makers, the antenna manufacturers, and even the server manufacturers -- is this: Once all of 5G's components are fully deployed and operational, you will not need any kind of wire or cable to deliver communications or even entertainment service to your mobile device, to any of your fixed devices (HDTV, security system, smart appliances), or to your automobile. If everything works, 5G would be the optimum solution to the classic "last mile" problem: Delivering complete digital connectivity from the tip of the carrier network to the customer, without drilling another hole through the wall.

 

[MacInWin]

Dave, as a "senior citizen" the idea of 5G may well mean that having to visit a doctor's office becomes a thing of the past. Telemedicine for most things will become more and more ubiquitous. I'm not sure if that is an "improvement" or not, it depends on how it is done. But I can see that if you have a blood pressure cuff and thermometer at home that can connect, your doctor will be able to do just about all that he/she does in the office. Add in a smart stethoscope and you can pretty much do all of that yourself with her/him watching and getting the results. Might be pretty handy for folks far from the Dr. office, or for someone who doesn't drive any more.

 

[RadDave]

Dave, as a "senior citizen" the idea of 5G may well mean that having to visit a doctor's office becomes a thing of the past. Telemedicine for most things will become more and more ubiquitous. I'm not sure if that is an "improvement" or not, it depends on how it is done. But I can see that if you have a blood pressure cuff and thermometer at home that can connect, your doctor will be able to do just about all that he/she does in the office. Add in a smart stethoscope and you can pretty much do all of that yourself with her/him watching and getting the results. Might be pretty handy for folks far from the Dr. office, or for someone who doesn't drive any more.

Hi Jake - the simpler measurements would certainly be easy, and some of the blood chemistries needed will likely be possible - how would VR and AR fit in? For example, a virtual reality prostate examination - But as a radiologist training in the 70s, the changes that I witnessed in my field (CT, MRI, Ultrasound, etc.) were really unimaginable and astounding, so who knows what the 'near future' will bring? Dave

 

[MacInWin]

RadDave, I wish all of my prostate exams were "virtual" instead of "up close and personal," as it were. If they get the chemistry down to a reasonable size and price, I can see how those lab results can be tele-done. At least you could do that work just before you go to the doctor's office so you don' have to spend that time getting those done IN the office. And your doctor could get advanced results and have some "think" time before you get there so she can figure out what to check in reality.

 

[Sawday]

I cancelled my landline years ago and don't miss it at all.

How do you get broadband without a phone line... or do you not have broadband?

 

[Jonzjob]

You still physically have the landline, but it's included in the broadband contract and there is no analog facility on the line, just digital. The beauty of VOIP is that any call you make anywhere in the world uses the web to get you into the country you are phoning and it pops out to be a local call.

 

[chscag]

How do you get broadband without a phone line... or do you not have broadband?

We have broadband through a fiber optic network to our home. It originally was installed by Verizon but now owned and maintained by Frontier Communications. The same fiber connection also provides TV and music on the same line.

 

[Jonzjob]

Oh joy of joys Chas. The same day as we got the keys for our bungalow here we were prsented that afternoon with a small flatbed lorry with a LOAD of bright orange barriers. The folowing morning a bunch of blokes arrived and spent the next few daze digging up the pavements and laying a new fibre optic line. It's part of the line through our village. Nobody is going to pay the 100 beer tokens (£)/month needed so we are still on copper wiring.

This is possibly very much the same as most of the U.K. and even although it may hapen that fibre optic will be all over the country the last few feet will be copper and that will slow it down considerably from the true potential.

 

[MacInWin]

John, can't speak for the UK technology, but that "last few feet" of copper should not slow the speed very much. The Wall Street Journal did an analysis of how much speed the average household "needs" to to have any issues and it turns out to be about 50Mbps They were able to successfully stream 8 videos with no skipping in that test. I cut my service from 300MBps to 130 and have seen zero impact. My ISP's next lower level is really low, so I'm sticking here for a while. Going higher is just a marketing ploy that you can probably ignore.

Where the fiber will be most felt is during peak hours. When your entire village is streaming during the evening, that fiber will have the capability to carry the load without having to throttle anyone.

 

[Cr00zng]

John, can't speak for the UK technology, but that "last few feet" of copper should not slow the speed very much. The Wall Street Journal did an analysis of how much speed the average household "needs" to to have any issues and it turns out to be about 50Mbps They were able to successfully stream 8 videos with no skipping in that test. I cut my service from 300MBps to 130 and have seen zero impact. My ISP's next lower level is really low, so I'm sticking here for a while. Going higher is just a marketing ploy that you can probably ignore.

Where the fiber will be most felt is during peak hours. When your entire village is streaming during the evening, that fiber will have the capability to carry the load without having to throttle anyone.

The number of videos streamed dependent on the resolution and frame per seconds (fps). For example, this video is 4K (UHD) with 60 fps uses around 50 Mbps in a seesaw pattern:



On my 200 Mbps connection, I doubt that four devices playing 4K/60fps videos would not have any issues. The HD videos on the other hand, probably tested by WSJ, my connection could handle much more streaming videos. There are 8K (FUHD) videos on youtube already, forecasting your bandwidth need for the near feature.

In general.... What seems like "more than sufficient" today, may not even be close to what we'll need in the near future.

 

[MacInWin]

I don't argue that in the future (whenever that may be) one might need higher bandwidth. When I started in IT, the speed over telephone lines was 43 baud. That would be a total joke today. But why pay for massive bandwidth today when you don't need it? Since I cut back, I have seen zero impact, and I use a streaming service for all of our TV watching. Even your graph shows that you are using maybe 25Mbps, not 50Mbps, on average. Your graph has peaks at 50, but for every peak there is a valley at 0, so I'm thinking you are closer to 25Mpbs average overall than 50. So even at 200Mbps, you could probably comfortably have four or more videos running. One of the remarkable findings WSJ's research showed was that bandwidth use was not linear, that is, 4 streams didn't drive the peak usage to four times one stream. There were efficiencies in how the router used packets as the burden increased. For example, in your graph a second stream would be fit in the valleys, bringing the average for two streams close to 50, but keeping the peaks still near the 50 limit. So, denser data in the stream but no real increase in the peak.


But if you want excess capacity, go for it. I'll move up when and if I see an impact.

 

[Cr00zng]

If you look at the average, yes, you are correct.

On the other hand, when four streaming videos spike to 50 Mbps at the same time, there will be jitter/short freeze in the video on some of the device. For streaming videos, the average transfer rate does not mean much.

I've started out my internet connection at 50 Mbps. When the yearly contract about to expire, I threaten the cable company to leave and get the other cable company instead. For about the same price, or less, they offer higher internet speed and throw in a premium channel for free, like Showtime. This is how I have 200/35 Mbps internet access. If I'd need to pay for it, even the 50 Mbps was just fine.

They are about to roll out the fiber connection, in 3 - 6 month in my neighborhood. Not for the download, but for the upload transfer rate I'll get it, need that to backup my small business systems to the cloud.

 

[MacInWin]

Fiber is also coming to our neighborhood, and for the same reason, upload speed, I may get it if the cost is not prohibitive. But I'll sign up for the speed closest to what I have. No need to over pay.

 

[Cr00zng]

Maybe we are neighbors and just didn't know... ;D

 

[MacInWin]

Not with that helmet. I'm a Redskins fan.