Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?

[Rod]

In the last week I have posted to at least 5 threads where OP's have demonstrated an unwillingness to update or upgrade their devices.

I can understand that in some cases technical incompatibility may be the cause. Some older MBP's cannot be upgraded beyond El Capitan and some old iPhones/iPads cannot go beyond iOS 9.3.5 as with my old iPad Mini.

There are also the enthusiasts who want to keep Snow Leopard alive as long as possible and suggest it is the best macOS ever released and they are a bit like vintage car enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with that.

But then their are the OP's who insist that upgrading/updating only causes problems. App compatibility, changes in function loss of familiarity and plain old resistance to change for what they perceive as change sake. Of course it is not change for change sake it is keeping up with advances in the whole area of the communication industry and yes, it is competition driven to a degree. It is also driven by the need to update security as security breaches become more sophisticated and we become more reliant on maintaining our online security.

We will have no doubt noticed that before every major process, beit a repair, or a pairing process or indeed an upgrade there is a suggestion that first we should ensure that our device is backed up and running the latest iOS/OS available and not without good reason.

This ensures compatibility, function and smooth transition to either the next operating system or process.

I do not understand this devotion to one operating system and observe with frustration the problems it causes.
An OP who trades in his device on a new one only to find his backup cannot be used to restore his photos to the new phone because it was running an earlier iOS. Why didn't he upgrade it first? It was certainly able to run the current iOS 12. Why hadn't he already upgraded it? I assume there was a numeral "1"on his settings icon stating an upgrade/update was available.

Apple now only supports the previous two operating system prior to the current one so everyone running macOS El Capitan as of September last year is now running an unsupported OS and agree with it or not that is the way things are. This is a PITA for the people lucky enough to still have a funcioning device that's 10 years old or thereabouts but the days of unending support for legacy devices is passing. Just as iOS 10 shut out devices using an A5 chip the next macOS will shut out 32bit apps. After all functioning 10 year old devices are rare in today's world of planned obsolescence. This applies as much to TV's, cars and fridges so no surprises there.
So as others have wisely said, this is progress. Apple takes every opportunity to suggest that we update and backup as do forums and advice sites.

One OP does not want to update his wife's phone because that would mean updating iTunes which in turn might require upgrading his macOS then there may be compatibility issues with some software etc etc. Now he faces a connection issue with the phone which is probably due to security comparability issues with the 6s running iOS 10.3.3 and the newer version of iTunes installed when he re-partitioned his SSD and reinstalled macOS Yosemite which he uses to sync his wife's phone.
My answer to his problem: Update the partition to Mojave (or High Sierra) and the iPhone to iOS 12.....

There is also I resistance to backing up to iCloud. I bought and continue to pay a monthly fee of AU$1.99 for increased iCloud storage primarily to backup our combined 6 devices in case of loss or unavailability of our local backups and the encryption option offered to preserve settings and passwords. I used this recently to restore the email accounts on my iPhone and it was a breeze. Honestly worth the cost for that alone. I have 5 email accounts and they were all restored complete with passwords in 5 minutes over 3G. Why wouldn't anyone want that? Considering the backups are encrypted there isn't even a security risk. But instead I get, "Oh, I wouldn't want to trust that cloud thingy." from the same people who don't perform local backups of anything.

So is it laziness or just a matter of misinformation coupled with this blithe expectation that things should just work without any personal input on their part and if it fails its the fault of the developers or manufacturers.

I think having a PC is a privilege, like owning a car and it's incumbent on me to maintain it as per the manufacturers specifications and advice. Like the recent airbag scare. If my manufacturer says my airbag may be faulty and that it should be replaced then by golly I replace it.

Sometimes we just need to do as suggested without asking why. If not we do eventually find out why but that is learning the hard way and by then the damage is done and may not be easily reversible.

So backup and update and with luck you may never have to find out why it was a good idea.

 

[chscag]

There are folks who either through misinformation or fear will just not upgrade or update. And yes, there are occasions where certain software will be obsoleted or flat out not work if the OS or app is upgraded. I know that when I move on to macOS 10.15.X, I will have to give up several apps that I like and use often. One of them is MS Office 2011. I refuse to update to Office 2016 or 2019 for various reasons. But I know that I will find a substitute for Office 2011 that will work for me just as well.

We must also consider that businesses who have large investments in software will usually not update or upgrade since that might mean a loss of valuable time which equates to $$$. Everyone is free to make their own decisions about whether to upgrade or update. We do need to be careful not to criticize folks for not upgrading when they come to us and ask for help.

 

[Rod]

Of course businesses are another kettle of fish. They are a soft target for hackers as seen a year ago when australan health service records were backed almost paralysing our system and releasing a lot of personal data which turned out to be because the recent security patches had not been applied and the windows OS not updated for years.


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[Rod]

As for individuals, where their problems are related to their resistance to updating or caused by the incompatibility that is a result I can't think of an argument to support finding a workaround which may only have short term effect.


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[Sawday]

Perhaps one reason for the reluctance to update is the increasing number of favourite programs that will no longer work under a new OS. Finding new versions of those (or more usually entirely new programs to do a similar job) takes time to source and learn so having already made a sizeable investment in one's existing portfolio users become less prone to update an operating system with, many times, dubious benefits, particularly so when Apple make it impossible to 'back-track'.

 

[IWT]

I agree with Rod - in fact he and I jointly posted advice to one of the cases he mentioned.

I also very much heed Charlie's requirement that we never criticise. I go out of my way to be courteous at all times; am frequently sympathetic to someone's plight even when, clearly, they themselves have been the cause of the catastrophe.

Our Forums need to be seen as a sanctuary where people can find consolation, understanding and help.

At the same time - somehow - we should convey the message that Apple runs an ecosystem, the various components of which require to be kept up to date. There are plenty of valid reasons for retaining an older OS - understood - but one must then recognise that buying the latest iPhone at well over a $1000 brings with it an iOS that may be completely incompatible with the older OS.

And finally - fiscal restraints and responsibility understood and acknowledged - spending the equivalent of half a cup of coffee/month to get 50GB of iCloud storage is a no-brainer in my view, particularly since the end-to-end security is so robust as well.

Ian

 

[Rod]

I have wondered about the backup connection as well. Any time I see a suggestion to update it's always preceded with the suggestion that before updating one should perform a full backup. These are wise words of course and I always follow that advice myself but I wonder if it scares some people off. By highlighting the need to backup we may inadvertantly be sending the message that things go wrong when you update/upgrade. Of course that's not the case in the vast majority of cases. It's more a sort of disclaimer so that if in the rare case something does go wrong people can restore and not say they weren't warned of the risks. We know that in reality this seldom happens but if you are dependent on one device and you have never had to restore from a backup then even having one can still seem like a scary possibility.


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[Rod]

Upgrading your OS of course definitely warrants a full backup first. In the old days when I had my Mac Performa I used to hold my breath when I hit update and I couldn't relax until it had completed successfully. Nowadays I just walk away an let it do it's thing. So I suppose there is something to be said for familiarity. After all now I have a bootable clone what could go wrong that couldn't be fixed.


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[MacInWin]

I don't understand the reluctance to keep up at all. I keep current and update, usually on the day the update is released. Before, when I was depending on the machines for my work, I would wait a few days to see if there were any implementation issues before updating, but never very long. Before I retired, I ran data centers for a living (among other things). We had a practice that we updated the OS on the various production systems about 3 months after the update was released. During that three months we stayed in touch with our vendors about all the third party software, to see if they had to publish patches for the update. Once we thought we had a handle on it, we did a full backup then applied the update and any patches. Never had an issue doing it that way.

And it paid off for us in a big way. When the Morris Worm (the first virus to escape to the Internet), created chaos in the *nix world, we cruised through it with no issues because we had updated, patched security holes and were in great shape. That experience convinced me that keeping up to date was a "good thing" and I put it into practice in my home computing.

So, for those "hanging back" the lesson is, don't do that, a lot of the update may well be security fixes. Make a backup, move up to the most recent update your hardware supports.

BTW, the reason for the backup is not scary, not that I expect the update to fail, or distrust it, but simply that there are things I cannot control that can leave my machine in a useless state--power failures, hardware failures, network failures, etc. So the backup is there to get me going again if I get hit by those uncontrollable externals.

 

[usagora]

Timely thread. I was just wondering why I was having so many issues with Cheetah! ;D

I agree: just keep everything up to date. If an OS version is no longer supported, then it's high time to update the OS. If the machine is no longer supported for new OS releases, then it's high time to replace the machine. As soon as I found out that both my Macs won't be supported after Mojave, I started making a plan to save to replace them so I'll be ready when the time comes.

 

[MacInWin]

Or, if they are no longer supported but run well, find a use for them that doesn't require updates. I have an old iMac running my home automation. Can't go past Sierra, but runs that nicely and just keeps ticking along. Don't go online with it, don't use it for much other than the HA application.

 

[harryb2448]

Where on earth is Patrick when this vital issue is being discussed?

Of course, older machines will not run newer software. My Original LC runs OS 7.0.1 quite nicely so I can still use my antiquated, but unique, Apple QuickTake 100 camera.

 

[Rod]

Ha, ha. Yes, point taken usagora.


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[Rod]

I just did a quick search for; What to do before trading in my old iPhone. The second point was download your camera roll using photos or image capture. There are 9 steps to take and I'm sure we all know what they are, things like deauthorising the device, disabling iCloud, logging out of iMessage, iTunes etc. I surprised and disappointed that the Apple store staff would not inform a customer of those steps before allowing them to trade in a device. Really sad to loose all your photos because of an oversight.


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[lclev]

I agree with all that is said above BUT... most of us are familiar with technology, keep up with what is new and how it work plus firmly practice updating and backing up.

However I have friends who never back up or update. They say things like "You mean that red circle with a number means something?" and "Oh, I have nothing important on it go ahead and wipe it - followed by "What happened to all my documents, pictures and music? I did not know that would be wiped too!" - those are just a few quotes I have heard over my years as a tech.

There are many people who buy a device and expect it to just take care of itself. When it has issues they either start calling someone to fix it or buy new. Hence the reason Microsoft tries to force updates - as well as a whole slew of other companies. Plus when they get a new iphone they either trade in the old one or give it away and NEVER go through all the steps Apple suggests because they either don't know or did not pay attention.

Non-tech savy people cling to the familiar because they just don't grasp the changes that keep on coming. If it works they plan for it to keep working forever with no effort on their part. They never plan for data loss or hardware failure. They figure if they pay for it then it should work forever. Also I think there is a level of fear of messing it up if they do update. Plus saving to the cloud scares some people. They usually do not understand it and can not get a grasp on the concept - so they don't use it. As for using another device to backup to ... well that is confusing to them also. Bottom line - most people do not want to deal with it.

Those of us on this forum fall into two categories - very knowledgeable and tech savy and those who are here to learn. Sometimes any of us can fall into either category ;D.

So there are no dumb questions, kindness and patience are virtues. Backing up and updating depends on the person's level of comfort with technology and yet, regardless of how much we preach it - there will always be those who will choose to ignore the message!

Getting off my soapbox now!

Lisa

 

[Rod]

I really don't mean to be harsh on those people who make mistakes in regard to updating or backup. I always try to be diplomatic, sympathetic and understanding of thier plight. What I find harder to accept is deliberate avoidance of what is plainly the easiest answer to tthier problems due to beliefs based on erroneous rumour, wacky conspiracy theories and plain old pig headedness.


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[ferrarr]

I surprised and disappointed that the Apple store staff would not inform a customer of those steps before allowing them to trade in a device. Really sad to loose all your photos because of an oversight.


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The Apple staff really shouldn't have to confirm what the customer did or didn't do. They ask, "if the customer has all their important data backed up", and that should be good enough. Personal responsibility for the amount of knowledge someone puts into a tool they use, is their crux to bear.

It's like the users that come here and say "I need help". With no information about; device, OS, app, and all the other minutia that is needed to diagnose issues. They don't comprehend the model years and product models specs are so different.

 

[lclev]

And that is why we have to be patient. The majority of users just want their devices to work - forever. They have no clue what they need to do to maintain their device or how to backup their data - and they really do not worry about it...until the device malfunctions. And they blame the company that made it.

The smarter users decide to learn how to take care of and backup their device and thus post on the forums to gain knowledge. Those are the ones we get here. They may not know what info we need or how to frame their questions - but they are willing to try. And that is a good thing.

Lisa

 

[krs]

I'm one who is hesitant to upgrade Mac OSs.
I have been on a Mac since OS 6, that's a long time, and I typically upgrade all Macs in the family only every three of four releases.
I remember when Apple went from OS 9 to OS 10.1, everyone kept pushing me to get on board with the new OS, but in retospect it turned out that 10.1 was a bit of a mess.
In the past, there were some Mac OS versions that were perceived to be more stable than others.
Tiger was one and I stayed there for a while, the next was SnowLeopard which Apple themselves actually called a 'clean-up' release at the time - few new features but a rewrite of a lot of the existing code.
My older Macs actually ran faster on SL than on Tiger.

One of the main reasons I don't upgrade with each new OS are compatibility issues with applications and capabilities that just disappear with the new OS.
The biggest problem I find, from my point of view, that I have not found a recent conciose and accurate document that will tell one which applications/features/capabilities have changed/disappeared in a new OS compared to the previous one.
There used to be a website, now that I think of it, that showed compatibility of a long list of applications; that was a start but it also listed many as being partially compatible which didn't give me a warm and fuzzy fealing.
I have been thinking that a concise resource like that would be good to have in this forum.

I recently changed one user from a 2011 MacBook pro to a 2017 MacBook Air, both running the same OS, El Capitan.
Didn't really expect to run into any issues since we kept the same OS, but.....
1. Apple Mail no longer worked. It was set up to automatically detect and maintain account settings on the 2011 MBp but had to be reconfigured to work again
2. The user also had bought a few games from the Apple store, they no longer worked when just changing hardware. Took a while to get those back since we had trouble logging into the Apple store
3. None of the MS Office 2011 applications worked. I ended up reinstalling all of them.

So, there three things are now fixed, but I didn't expect any one of them to stop working.
And there are dozens and dozens of other applications on that Mac, for some of them we will only find out months later that something won't work.
Talking about MS Office 2011, it was posted earlier:

I know that when I move on to macOS 10.15.X, I will have to give up several apps that I like and use often. One of them is MS Office 2011. I refuse to update to Office 2016 or 2019 for various reasons. But I know that I will find a substitute for Office 2011 that will work for me just as well.

Any suggestions as to a substitute?
For PowerPoint I have tried Keynotes and the PPT equivalents in LibreOffice, NeoOffice and others - none will show all charts in exactly the same way as Power Point.
Sometimes part of the text is missing or text runs into images.

But besides application compatibility, I also worry about features and/or capabilities that Apple has decided to eliminate (without telling anyone)...I put that in brackets, maybe there is an Apple document that covers that.
What usually happens is that I want to do something that I have done a million times before and it does not work.
Then after some googling I find out....oh, this is no longer supported on the OS I upgraded to.
Last capability I "lost" was trying to read a batch of old floppies I found. I had bought an external floppy USB drive when Apple decided to get rid of floppy drives on Macs. That was fine, I have no problems with that, technology moves on. But somewhere between SnowLeopard and ElCapitan, Apple decided to no longer support external USB floppy drives - I don't remember Apple making an announcement about that.
Now I'm wondering when my external USB DVD drive will be next.

This post is getting rather long, but I can tell you, if I hadn't been burned in the past, I would be much more inclined to upgrade the OS on a regular basis.

PS: BTW - I do backup all Macs on a regular basis, I also tend to make sure the OS I'm running is the latest version, but on the other hand, I don't always upgrade to the latest version of Firefox having had problems doing that in the past.

 

[MacInWin]

I'm one who is hesitant to upgrade Mac OSs.
I have been on a Mac since OS 6, that's a long time, and I typically upgrade all Macs in the family only every three of four releases.
I remember when Apple went from OS 9 to OS 10.1, everyone kept pushing me to get on board with the new OS, but in retospect it turned out that 10.1 was a bit of a mess.
In the past, there were some Mac OS versions that were perceived to be more stable than others.
Tiger was one and I stayed there for a while, the next was SnowLeopard which Apple themselves actually called a 'clean-up' release at the time - few new features but a rewrite of a lot of the existing code.
My older Macs actually ran faster on SL than on Tiger.

One of the main reasons I don't upgrade with each new OS are compatibility issues with applications and capabilities that just disappear with the new OS.
The biggest problem I find, from my point of view, that I have not found a recent conciose and accurate document that will tell one which applications/features/capabilities have changed/disappeared in a new OS compared to the previous one.
There used to be a website, now that I think of it, that showed compatibility of a long list of applications; that was a start but it also listed many as being partially compatible which didn't give me a warm and fuzzy fealing.

The website is called RoaringApps and is at https://roaringapps.com/ .

I have been thinking that a concise resource like that would be good to have in this forum.

I recently changed one user from a 2011 MacBook pro to a 2017 MacBook Air, both running the same OS, El Capitan.
Didn't really expect to run into any issues since we kept the same OS, but.....
1. Apple Mail no longer worked. It was set up to automatically detect and maintain account settings on the 2011 MBp but had to be reconfigured to work again
2. The user also had bought a few games from the Apple store, they no longer worked when just changing hardware. Took a while to get those back since we had trouble logging into the Apple store
3. None of the MS Office 2011 applications worked. I ended up reinstalling all of them.

You didn't mention the names of the games, but for MS products, the anti-piracy setup from MS requires re-registration whenever the hardware is changed. Not an Apple problem, but MS. As for Mail, it sort of varies from ISP to ISP. Some monitor the system hardware and if it changes require a re-set and re-setup as a security feature. Apple, in particular, watches for hardware changes that way. My email provider does not do that checking, so I can move from one machine to another with no issues at all.

So, there three things are now fixed, but I didn't expect any one of them to stop working.
And there are dozens and dozens of other applications on that Mac, for some of them we will only find out months later that something won't work.
Talking about MS Office 2011, it was posted earlier:

Any suggestions as to a substitute?
For PowerPoint I have tried Keynotes and the PPT equivalents in LibreOffice, NeoOffice and others - none will show all charts in exactly the same way as Power Point.
Sometimes part of the text is missing or text runs into images.

But besides application compatibility, I also worry about features and/or capabilities that Apple has decided to eliminate (without telling anyone)...I put that in brackets, maybe there is an Apple document that covers that.

Yes, there usually is a release document at Apple.com for the release, but it doesn't address what third party applications work because that is up to the developer to provide as they decide what to do. Apple does have a beta program for developers to participate in the development and testing of their own applications in the new environment. If they choose not to participate, it's their own issue. Now, for the OS itself, there is a public beta if the functions/features are important to you. I have not been with Mac that long (I came in at Leopard), but the changes in function from then to now (Mojave) have not been that drastic. The biggest changes are in the security aspects, where Apple has been putting more and more locks on the system files as a protection for the naive users that don't always know what they are doing. (Particularly the influx of former Windows users who think they need system cleaners/antivirus/tuneup/whatever kinds of utilities that ended up making more problems because the mucked with critical system files. One in particular was CleanMyMac that erased all the "unnecessary" language files and basically killed the OS.) Those lockdowns restrict what sophisticated users can do, which could be frustrating, but I've adjusted as it's happened.

What usually happens is that I want to do something that I have done a million times before and it does not work.
Then after some googling I find out....oh, this is no longer supported on the OS I upgraded to.
Last capability I "lost" was trying to read a batch of old floppies I found. I had bought an external floppy USB drive when Apple decided to get rid of floppy drives on Macs. That was fine, I have no problems with that, technology moves on. But somewhere between SnowLeopard and ElCapitan, Apple decided to no longer support external USB floppy drives - I don't remember Apple making an announcement about that.

Something must be wrong with your setup. I have a MBPr, mid-2015, running Mojave 10.14.3 (updated as of today!), and I just now attached a USB 3.25 floppy drive and read the disc in it with no issues. It was dead slow, but that's probably because of the media, not the setup. (Or maybe my standards for speed have changed?) However, it worked. So, it should work for you.

Now I'm wondering when my external USB DVD drive will be next.

This post is getting rather long, but I can tell you, if I hadn't been burned in the past, I would be much more inclined to upgrade the OS on a regular basis.

PS: BTW - I do backup all Macs on a regular basis, I also tend to make sure the OS I'm running is the latest version, but on the other hand, I don't always upgrade to the latest version of Firefox having had problems doing that in the past.

Understand the burned feeling. It's why I now make multiple backups, and why I store stuff off-site. But with a bit of planning and a willingness to adjust to change, keeping up to date is a good thing, IMHO. Is it perfect? Nope! I just recently wanted to play an old game again but when I broke out the CD, it needed Rosetta, which disappeared a long time ago, or WinXP which is also gone. Oh, well, that's what they call progress. Put it aside and moving on.

But, it's a free country, so you can do what you want. But the further behind you are, the harder it is going to be to get newer stuff to work and the riskier it gets for you online as the developers stop supporting your system.