OS 10.15, Catalina, arriving this Friday, October 4th?

[honestone33]

Just saw this:

Apple website hints macOS Catalina to launch on Oct. 4

Not sure how much "merit" there is to this? And searching for Apple Arcade and Catalina did not bring up anything definitive.

 

[IWT]

Whether so or otherwise, it is a salient reminder to all those who might ever consider macOS Mojave, to download it now while you have the chance. Save it, create a bootable USB installer, or install it. Doesn't matter. That way it will always be there if you need it.

After macOS Catalina, Mojave will no longer be available if past experience with all previous Operating Systems is maintained.

Ian

 

[pm-r]

Whether so or otherwise, it is a salient reminder to all those who might ever consider macOS Mojave, to download it now while you have the chance. Save it, create a bootable USB installer, or install it. Doesn't matter. That way it will always be there if you need it.

Good point Ian, at least for those who will be able to use it, but this will will probably be the second of the latest Mac OS versions that I haven't bothered to download and save, mainly because we don't have a Mac in the house that could run it or Mojave, nor do I need any of its features nor would I really want to use any of them, and I have no idea of what my future Mac model might be if I even last that long or if I even have to replace my existing iMac.

I imagine there are still some other members still running Snow Leopard, from what I read in some of the posts, that are in the same boat. But I think we like it that way with the old versions that work for us and the way we want and we'll let the young bucks, and maybe some of the old veteran ones as well, carry on with the new syuff.

PS: I'd say the Mac rumour mills of a Catalina GM release this week are a little bit premature, especially considering Apple released macOS Catalina beta 10 to developers just a couple of days ago. And maybe this time they might be checking things over a little bit more carefully and thoroughly considering their screw up with a latest iOS releases that appeared that some things haden't even been checked for proper operation. Let's hope they get Catalina correct on its first release and is anybody in a real rush for it anyway???



- Patrick
======

 

[honestone33]

Whether so or otherwise, it is a salient reminder to all those who might ever consider macOS Mojave, to download it now while you have the chance. Save it, create a bootable USB installer, or install it. Doesn't matter. That way it will always be there if you need it.

After macOS Catalina, Mojave will no longer be available if past experience with all previous Operating Systems is maintained.

Ian

Well stated, and excellent advice! That is one reason why I have stated a couple if times that after downloading a Mac OS Installation File from the App Store, stop the installation, and make a copy of that installation in another location on your Mac. That is one thing I always do. In fact, I will download the Mojave OS 10.14.6 Installation File right before Catalina arrives, so that I have the latest version (already have a copy on both of my Macs).

Also, it is always better to wait until at least when the .1 release of Catalina (or any Mac OS) arrives, as there are typically a number of bugs in the initial release.

And one other thing that I have mentioned before. Make sure all your third party applications are compatible with Catalina before downloading and installing it.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

After macOS Catalina, Mojave will no longer be available if past experience with all previous Operating Systems is maintained.

I don't know where you got that. All recent versions of the Mac OS are still available for download for free from Apple:

OS X 10.11 - El Capitan FREE
How to upgrade to OS X El Capitan - Apple Support
Connecting to the Mac App Store

OS X 10.12 - Sierra FREE
Connecting to the Mac App Store
macOS Sierra 10.12 Installer Download Still Available on Mac App Store - The Mac Observer
How to upgrade to macOS Sierra - Apple Support

MacOS 10.13 - High Sierra - FREE
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id1246284741?mt=12

MacOS 10.14 - Mojave - FREE
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-mojave/id1398502828?ls=1&mt=12

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Randy, have you tried searching for previous version of macOS on the app store? You will find that you can't find them that way. You either need the direct link as you posted here or find the link on a separate page that takes you to the App Store. So while you are correct that the older versions are available, that wasn't always the case. Apple has changed their tune on keeping the old versions around but making it not totally easy to find them.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Apple website hints macos catalina to launch on oct 4

Get ready for some huge changes (more than just the 64-bit-only one that folks have been talking about!!)

Catalina will have an entirely separate volume for the Mac System, and it will be LOCKED (read only)! So, your system software should be entirely protected from malware, and from random corruption. (This is very similar to how the old Atari ST computer used to store the OS in ROM. To my knowledge, there never was any malware for the Atari ST!

Extensions have been deprecated. Most of your legacy extensions should still work (for now), and you can still install new ones using the right-click-to-launch method, but this will change in time. This is a good thing. You can forget about malicious fake Flash installers and bogus browser extensions that serve up ads in the near future.

Languages such as Python, Ruby and Perl, which used to be included with the Mac OS, now won't be. So if you have scripts or applications that require these languages you will have to download a runtime version. If your scripts or applications won't work with a runtime, then they will have to be re-written.

As part of Catalina's new heightened security, the user is going to have to give a password before an application can access all sorts of stuff, such as your documents in your documents folder. This feature will protect your valuable data nicely, but I suspect that users will whine incessantly about it.

All sorts of hardware peripherals, especially printers, will need all new drivers to work under Catalina. If your printer's developer doesn't already offer new drivers for Catalina for download....DON'T UPGRADE TO CATALINA!!! Many Mac users, especially business people, use Fujitsu's ScanSnap desktop scanner. Older versions of this scanner won't EVER be compatible with Catalina. Newer versions will require a driver update.

I can tell you one thing for certain...users who don't like change are going to be doing a lot of complaining about Catalina. My advice? WAIT. No need to jump on Catalina until you know the repercussions for you personally, and you know that what you need to make a smooth transition is in place.

The Main Benefits of Using New MacOS Catalina for Data Privacy - CPO Magazine

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Apple has changed their tune on keeping the old versions around but making it not totally easy to find them.

I don't mean to argue with you over this...but Apple hasn't changed their mind about anything. All of the OS software versions that I provided links to have been available from those very links since they have been released. That's why I had those links at my fingertips to post here; I've been pointing folks to them since each past version of the Mac OS has been released. This isn't something new.

I have no doubt that you are correct that previous versions of the Macintosh OS aren't available via the Mac App Store. I don't know why Apple doesn't make previous versions of the Mac OS available this way. But that's very different than saying that Apple discontinued making them available to users after a new version of the Macintosh OS came out. Apple stopped doing things that way a bunch of years ago...at about the same time, I believe, that they started releasing new versions of the Mac OS for free.

Just as a FYI, you can still download OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard), OS X 10.7 (Lion), and OS X 10.8 (Mt. Lion) from Apple too. However, they are all $20 each.

 

[IWT]

@Randy

I was the one, in post #2, that made what I now understand to be an erroneous statement about previous versions of Apple's Operating Systems.

I made that statement in good faith as one of the many here who understood this to be the case. I did know that Apple had made provision for those unable to Upgrade to macOS High Sierra or macOS Mojave by issuing a Link (very difficult to find!) to El Capitan.

But I was totally unaware that previous versions, as linked by you, were still available.

I apologise for my misinformation, but disguise my ignorance behind the fact that many of our members held a similar view The ignorant majority, perhaps

I am indebted to you. Thanks.

Ian

 

[honestone33]

Randy, have you tried searching for previous version of macOS on the app store? You will find that you can't find them that way. You either need the direct link as you posted here or find the link on a separate page that takes you to the App Store. So while you are correct that the older versions are available, that wasn't always the case. Apple has changed their tune on keeping the old versions around but making it not totally easy to find them.

Another reason to make a copy of the latest Mac OS Installation file in another location on one's Mac. I actually still have the last versions of Sierra and High Sierra. But, I am going to get rid of the one for Sierra now, and when I download the first version of Catalina (most likely at least the .2 version), I'll get rid of the one for High Sierra also.

- - - Updated - - -

Get ready for some huge changes (more than just the 64-bit-only one that folks have been talking about!!)

Catalina will have an entirely separate volume for the Mac System, and it will be LOCKED (read only)! So, your system software should be entirely protected from malware, and from random corruption. (This is very similar to how the old Atari ST computer used to store the OS in ROM. To my knowledge, there never was any malware for the Atari ST!

Extensions have been deprecated. Most of your legacy extensions should still work (for now), and you can still install new ones using the right-click-to-launch method, but this will change in time. This is a good thing. You can forget about malicious fake Flash installers and bogus browser extensions that serve up ads in the near future.

Languages such as Python, Ruby and Perl, which used to be included with the Mac OS, now won't be. So if you have scripts or applications that require these languages you will have to download a runtime version. If your scripts or applications won't work with a runtime, then they will have to be re-written.

As part of Catalina's new heightened security, the user is going to have to give a password before an application can access all sorts of stuff, such as your documents in your documents folder. This feature will protect your valuable data nicely, but I suspect that users will whine incessantly about it.

All sorts of hardware peripherals, especially printers, will need all new drivers to work under Catalina. If your printer's developer doesn't already offer new drivers for Catalina for download....DON'T UPGRADE TO CATALINA!!! Many Mac users, especially business people, use Fujitsu's ScanSnap desktop scanner. Older versions of this scanner won't EVER be compatible with Catalina. Newer versions will require a driver update.

I can tell you one thing for certain...users who don't like change are going to be doing a lot of complaining about Catalina. My advice? WAIT. No need to jump on Catalina until you know the repercussions for you personally, and you know that what you need to make a smooth transition is in place.

The Main Benefits of Using New MacOS Catalina for Data Privacy - CPO Magazine

Super informative post, Randy! +1000!

Also, don't forget about third party software compatibility with OS 10.15.

 

[honestone33]

I have no doubt that you are correct that previous versions of the Macintosh OS aren't available via the Mac App Store. I don't know why Apple doesn't make previous versions of the Mac OS available this way. But that's very different than saying that Apple discontinued making them available to users after a new version of the Macintosh OS came out. Apple stopped doing things that way a bunch of years ago...at about the same time, I believe, that they started releasing new versions of the Mac OS for free.

Yeah, I was certainly shocked when Apple initially did not show the prior Mac OS version in "Purchased Items" (I think that as around the time when either Sierra or High Sierra was released), and then did completely away with the "Purchased Items" category. But your links above are definitely super helpful.

 

[honestone33]

All sorts of hardware peripherals, especially printers, will need all new drivers to work under Catalina. If your printer's developer doesn't already offer new drivers for Catalina for download....DON'T UPGRADE TO CATALINA!!! Many Mac users, especially business people, use Fujitsu's ScanSnap desktop scanner. Older versions of this scanner won't EVER be compatible with Catalina. Newer versions will require a driver update.

Question to ask of you, Randy: I have a Canon PIXMA 890 printer, and the company actually does not have a Mojave driver for it. It seems that is because Mojave (and some prior versions of the Mac OS) already contains the necessary drivers for my printer. Will that be the case for Catalina (suspect it will, but your post was so, so informative)?

 

[Nighthawk4]

Don’t forget the Reminders problem in iOS13. So we are caught either way if we installed that.


Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Question to ask of you, Randy: I have a Canon PIXMA 890 printer, and the company actually does not have a Mojave driver for it. It seems that is because Mojave (and some prior versions of the Mac OS) already contains the necessary drivers for my printer. Will that be the case for Catalina (suspect it will, but your post was so, so informative)?

I can't say for absolute certain, but my very strong suspicion is that they will. The thing is that the third party hardware drivers that come with the Mac OS are not actually "from Apple". They were put together by the third party hardware vendors (using tools from Apple) and included with the Mac OS as an accommodation. I don't see any reason why that would change.

However, since the way that hardware drivers work under Catalina will be changing so much, some developers may be caught with their pants down and their drivers may not be ready when Catalina is released. So it's really, really important to make sure that either Catalina includes updated drivers, or that the developer has new drivers available for download, or that your peripheral doesn't need new drivers, BEFORE you upgrade to Catalina. Because you don't want to find out after upgrading that your printer/scanner is a BRICK!

Also, because hardware drivers will be changing so much, some developers simply WON'T be updating their drivers for some older products AT ALL for Catalina. I'm the head of a huge user group for Macintosh-using attorneys. A large number of these attorneys use Fujitsu's ScanSnap desktop scanner to run a paperless office. Some have the older version, the ScanSnap S1500M. Fujitsu has told them that they do not intend to EVER provide updated drivers for the S1500M for Catalina. (Can you guess how my attorneys feel about that?) So it's important to know not to upgrade to Catalina unless you intend to throw away your perfectly good ScanSnap S1500M and purchase a newer one (for about roughly $800). There is no telling how many other older peripherals will be orphaned with the move to Catalina. Hewlett Packard, in the past, has especially been known for orphaning older hardware.

Once again...my advice to everyone with regard to Catalina is to WAIT. Wait until all the bugs are squashed, wait until there are updates or alternatives available for all of your mission critical apps, wait until you have gathered everything you need to make the upgrade go smoothly.

 

[honestone33]

I can't say for absolute certain, but my very strong suspicion is that they will. The thing is that the third party hardware drivers that come with the Mac OS are not actually "from Apple". They were put together by the third party hardware vendors (using tools from Apple) and included with the Mac OS as an accommodation. I don't see any reason why that would change.

Let's hope so.

However, since the way that hardware drivers work under Catalina will be changing so much, some developers may be caught with their pants down and their drivers may not be ready when Catalina is released. So it's really, really important to make sure that either Catalina includes updated drivers, or that the developer has new drivers available for download, or that your peripheral doesn't need new drivers, BEFORE you upgrade to Catalina. Because you don't want to find out after upgrading that your printer/scanner is a BRICK!

Also, because hardware drivers will be changing so much, some developers simply WON'T be updating their drivers for some older products AT ALL for Catalina. I'm the head of a huge user group for Macintosh-using attorneys. A large number of these attorneys use Fujitsu's ScanSnap desktop scanner to run a paperless office. Some have the older version, the ScanSnap S1500M. Fujitsu has told them that they do not intend to EVER provide updated drivers for the S1500M for Catalina. (Can you guess how my attorneys feel about that?) So it's important to know not to upgrade to Catalina unless you intend to throw away your perfectly good ScanSnap S1500M and purchase a newer one (for about roughly $800). There is no telling how many other older peripherals will be orphaned with the move to Catalina. Hewlett Packard, in the past, has especially been known for orphaning older hardware.

Understand 100%. Actually right after you made your post above about this, I visited Canon's site, and did not see any driver updates for my printer for either Mojave or Catalina. IN fact, for Mojave, here is what it said:

"There is no driver for the OS Version you selected. The driver may be included in your OS or you may not need a driver.". That specifically is the case for me.

Once again...my advice to everyone with regard to Catalina is to WAIT. Wait until all the bugs are squashed, wait until there are updates or alternatives available for all of your mission critical apps, wait until you have gathered everything you need to make the upgrade go smoothly.

Agreed 100%! And I have been preaching the same thing, both here and on other forums I have been on. As it is, Micromat has not had the compatible version of Tech Tool Pro available for the last 3 releases of the Mac OS until after the .1 update, and I just waited for the .2 update. And I have never seen anything earth shattering in the newer version of the Mac OS for me to "rush out" and get it when it is initially released.

 

[ferrarr]

No Catalina today I guess.

 

[chscag]

Not likely we will see the final public release of Catalina today and probably for the next few days at least.

Apple just yesterday released the final Gold Master of Catalina to developers and Public Beta #10.

 

[Gren]

I don't know where you got that. All recent versions of the Mac OS are still available for download for free from Apple:

OS X 10.11 - El Capitan FREE
How to upgrade to OS X El Capitan - Apple Support
Connecting to the Mac App Store

OS X 10.12 - Sierra FREE
Connecting to the Mac App Store
macOS Sierra 10.12 Installer Download Still Available on Mac App Store - The Mac Observer
How to upgrade to macOS Sierra - Apple Support

MacOS 10.13 - High Sierra - FREE
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id1246284741?mt=12

MacOS 10.14 - Mojave - FREE
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-mojave/id1398502828?ls=1&mt=12

Excuse my ignorance but can I copy my existing version of Mojave to another volume from my Mac? I have tried downloading it using the link but it tried to install it as an upgrade and then it failed to verify.
I do use Superduper to back up the whole HD to an external drive, could I use that if I want to revert to Mojave from Catalina?

 

[pm-r]

I do use Superduper to back up the whole HD to an external drive, could I use that if I want to revert to Mojave from Catalina?

I do not use SuperDuper, but normally one could use it to just clone it back and use your old Mojave as your boot Drive.

But I do not know what super duper might how done with your Catalina install as, as far as I know, super duper has not been approved for use with Catalina Mac OS 15.

If you can boot from your SuperDuper clone of Mohave, you should be able to use it if you just clone it back. MacOS Mojave supports both APFS, HFS+ drive formats AFAIK.


- Patrick
======

 

[chscag]

I do use Superduper to back up the whole HD to an external drive, could I use that if I want to revert to Mojave from Catalina?

As Patrick stated above, you should be able to use the SD clone to revert back to Mojave provided the clone you made is good and it will boot. The same goes for anyone using Carbon Copy Cloner to do likewise.