iPhone as a wifi device

[MikeFromMesa]

I have been thinking about buying a used iPhone, perhaps a 6 or 7, to use as a navigation device for Waze and/or Google Maps. My idea is to not activate it on a cell network but use it, via my cell hot spot, to run the nav software through my vehicle's display. I have a Ford Sync 3 system which interfaces with the CarPlay app on the phone, or at least does so with my wife's iPhone.

I don't want to add it to my Verizon plan because I don't plan to use it as a phone, only for the nav stuff, and I was wondering if I could do that without adding a SIM card to the phone. That is, buy a used iPhone without a sim and without activating it and just connect it to the hot spot and, via a usb cable, to my vehicles Sync 3 system. Is there any reason that an iPhone without a sim and without activation would not work as a network device?

 

[pm-r]

I have been thinking about buying a used iPhone, perhaps a 6 or 7, to use as a navigation device...
I don't plan to use it as a phone, only for the nav stuff, and I was wondering if I could do that without adding a SIM card to the phone. ...

Probably yes. I did the similar thing with my older iPad, and used the GPS navigation software successfully without adding any SIM card.

But be aware that Apple has just recently provided an iOS 9.3.6 update for some older and specific iOS models with the main purpose to correct some GPS navigation errors.

That may have some impact as to what you are planning to do.

I'd do some Googling to find out more specific information... I'm just posting a bit of an alert here so that you are aware of the situation.



- Patrick
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[Slydude]

AFAIK that should not be an issue if Mike can find an Phone 6 or 7 as they will run IOS versions 10 and above which I think already have that fix in place. I'm not sure about that though so we'll need to do some checking.

One thing that might be worth checking simply because I don't remember the answer. IIRC in early iPhone models GPS was most accurate earn both wi-fi and cellular was available to assist with triangulation. My bet is that even without cell service the GPS would be accurate enough for Mike's uses but I'm not sure about that.

 

[MikeFromMesa]

Thanks for the replies. I have been having a difficult time trying to figure out what is the best approach.

I first thought I would use my iPad for this, but it is only wifi and so gets no gps signals. My second thought was to get a used cell iPad to replace my current wifi version, but then I found out that CarPlay is not on the iPad and can not be added, so that stopped my thought about using an iPad. I need CarPlay to run the software through the entertainment system and display the routing on a large screen.

Next I thought about getting an iPhone and adding it as a tablet on my system (I don't want to pay that high monthly phone fee just for a nav system but would pay the tablet fee) but my carrier (Verizon) told me that I can not do that. If I add a phone, then the system will charge me for the phone. So I am down to the last choice - buying a phone but not putting a SIM card in it, but I am not even sure that will work. Do the GPS receivers in a phone even work when there is no sim? The guy at the local warehouse store (Costco here) told me that they do not work without a SIM card in the cell tablets so I don't know.

The easiest thing would be if CarPlay existed on the iPad, but it doesn't. Don't know why that is.

 

[MacInWin]

Mike, I have an iPhone 5s that I use as a security camera. I just tried what you want to do and it worked fine. I don't have CarPlay, but there is no reason why it shouldn't work. I'm running iOS 12.4 and a fresh copy of Waze just downloaded for the test. No SIM card, but connected to my home WiFi.

EDIT: checked and it's a 5s, not a 6.

 

[MikeFromMesa]

Thank you for testing. So I an assume this will work.

I think the next step is to find a decent used iPhone.

 

[pigoo3]

Hey there Mike...thought I would chime in on this.

I use an iPhone 6s...and have an older iPhone 5s that I used to use until recently. The iPhone 5s has no SIM card in it...I setup the iPhone 6s as a hotspot...and the iPhone 5s connected to iPhone 6s via WiFi no problem.

Good luck,

- Nick

 

[pm-r]

As I mentioned previously, I used the navigation (Navionics.app for boating) with my Wi-Fi / GPS iPad 2 both with and without a SIM card, but I'm not sure what my devices are necessary to use at work with CarPlay.

I have a feeling that that came later.


EDIT:
CarPlay is compatible with these iPhone models.

iPhone XSiPhone ten s
iPhone XS MaxiPhone ten s Max
iPhone XRiPhone ten r
iPhone X
iPhone 8
iPhone 8 Plus
iPhone 7
iPhone 7 Plus
iPhone 6s
iPhone 6s Plus
iPhone 6
iPhone 6 Plus
iPhone SE
iPhone 5s
iPhone 5c
iPhone 5

iOS - CarPlay - Apple (CA)


Gee, I am actually quite surprised they started back with the iPhone 5 that seems to be fully CarPlay supported.

So just make sure the iPhone is a GPS supporting model.

EDIT II:

iOS 9.3.6 addresses an issue that could impact GPS location performance and could cause system date and time to be incorrect. This update is recommended for all users.

Alongside the launch of iOS 12.4, Apple today released new versions of iOS 9.3.6 and iOS 10.3.4 for older iPhones and iPads that aren't able to run iOS 12.4.

The iOS 9.3.6 update is available for the iPhone 4s and cellular models of the original iPad mini, the iPad 2, and the iPad 3, while iOS 10.3.4 is available for the cellular version of the iPad 4 and the iPhone 5.

So it looks like you wouldn't need the iOS update for the GPS problem as the iPhone 4S cannot run CarPlay.

PS: That's an interesting project you have created for yourself. I hope it works and maybe post back when you get it all sorted out and working properly.



- Patrick
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[MikeFromMesa]

I think that people on this forum are probably the best judge of what works and what does not. Generally they are posting out of personal experience, and that probably trumps theory.

Out of curiosity I called AppleCare and asked for technical support for the iPhone. I asked the "techie" if a used iPhone could be used as a wifi device without a SIM card or with an inactive SIM card, and she put me on hold, clearly indicating that she did not know the answer. After a couple of minutes she came back and told me that if the iPhone did not have a SIM card, or if the SIM card was inactive, then it could NOT be used even as a wifi device, and I find that hard to believe.

I am going to remove the SIM card from my wife's iPhone 8S and check, but am pretty sure it will still work as a wifi device.

UPDATE:

Yup. Worked just fine.

 

[pm-r]

I am going to remove the SIM card from my wife's iPhone 8S and check, but am pretty sure it will still work as a wifi device.

UPDATE:

Yup. Worked just fine.

So much for some official Apple support!!!

Maybe you could call them back and let them update and correct their knowledge base, at least as a courtesy attempt for other users.


- Patrick
======

 

[chscag]

Yup. Worked just fine.

LOL, we could have told you that Mike. The only thing that will show on the screen of the iPhone without a sim card is "No Service" but it will do WiFi just fine.

By the way, try to find an iPhone 5C as they are small, colorful, and inexpensive. The only problem with the 5C is that the largest storage size was 64GB and those are hard to find. I had one that was 32GB and it was a great little phone to carry around.

 

[pm-r]

Lot's of hits available here for using iphone without a sim card:
using iphone without a sim card - Google Search

I imagine any GPS stuff would also work just as it did with our old iPad 2 and no SIM card indstalled.



- Patrick
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[MikeFromMesa]

So much for some official Apple support!!!
Maybe you could call them back and let them update and correct their knowledge base, at least as a courtesy attempt for other users.

The only problem with that idea is that I would not get the same person and they would tell me "Of course it will work without a SIM card", or something similar.

LOL, we could have told you that Mike. The only thing that will show on the screen of the iPhone without a sim card is "No Service" but it will do WiFi just fine.

By the way, try to find an iPhone 5C as they are small, colorful, and inexpensive. The only problem with the 5C is that the largest storage size was 64GB and those are hard to find. I had one that was 32GB and it was a great little phone to carry around.

My initial idea was to get something with CarPlay and at least 32GB, so an iPhone 6 seemed like a good idea, but I then started thinking that if I ever wanted to add the phone to my service, for any reason, then I needed to get a 4G LTE phone and that meant an iPhone 7. At the moment I am undecided which would be best. I have no plans to add it to my service - I already have my wife's iPhone 8 Plus and my Samsung S10 Plus and we do not need another phone - but it might be best, just in case, to get something that could be added. On the other hand I see no reason to spend any more than I have to, and that means an iPhone 6 or, perhaps, an iPhone 5.

My only plans for the phone are to use it for CarPlay and Waze/Google Maps, so 32GB should be sufficient, but I worry that 16GB might be too small in case I want to add something like Sygic with its on-board maps.

Decisions, decisions, decisions ...

 

[MacInWin]

I could not find details on Sygic's map sizes, but from other map applications, the on-board maps are not that large. If the 16GB is only storing maps and not other things (music, etc), then it should do nicely. I seem to recall that a previous app I used had maps for the entire North America that combined were under 1GB and maps for Europe were about the same size.

 

[MikeFromMesa]

I could not find details on Sygic's map sizes, but from other map applications, the on-board maps are not that large. If the 16GB is only storing maps and not other things (music, etc), then it should do nicely. I seem to recall that a previous app I used had maps for the entire North America that combined were under 1GB and maps for Europe were about the same size.

I don't know how much space is left on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and related apps are installed, and that is why I was thinking about 32GB. As far as the Sygic maps are concerned, I currently only have the maps for those states around where I live (California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado, Louisiana and Utah) and they take up more than 1.5GB, so all of the maps are probably in the order of 9-10 GB.

 

[MacInWin]

Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math (Pauses to remove shoes so the toes can be used as well as the fingers. Muttering, "carry the two, that makes...) all 50 should take about 9GB or so. If you can find one with more storage, that would give more breathing room, but I suspect that even the 16 can fit in the app and all 50 states. (assuming, of course, you want to drive to Hawaii.)

 

[MikeFromMesa]

Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math (Pauses to remove shoes so the toes can be used as well as the fingers. Muttering, "carry the two, that makes...) all 50 should take about 9GB or so. If you can find one with more storage, that would give more breathing room, but I suspect that even the 16 can fit in the app and all 50 states. (assuming, of course, you want to drive to Hawaii.)

No current plans to drive to Hawaii, but I have been thinking about Alaska, and that means that I would have to add some of the Canadian Western Provinces as well as some of the northern states like Wyoming and Montana.

It is unlikely that I would actually want to drive back to the eastern US, especially the North East, as that is where I originally lived before I moved to the west and its open spaces, so I probably don't need any of those states both east of the Mississippi and North of Virginia, but everything else is probably a possibility.

Interestingly enough there is not much difference between the cost of memory in an old iPhone. A check on Amazon for used iPhones shows about a $20 difference between 16GB and 32GB, so probably better to be safe than sorry.

 

[pm-r]

Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math ...

But don't forget to calculate that some states have much fewer roads and miles than some others:

Road Miles by State:
Road Miles by State--A chart of states and number of road miles | Cubit's Blog

For comparison, I would think they would easily fit onto a 16 gig iDevice especially considering the full Marine navigation charts for North America and Canada coasts and lakes I used and with depth soundings and much more details etc easily fit onto my 16GB iPad 2.


- Patrick
======

 

[MikeFromMesa]

For comparison, I would think they would easily fit onto a 16 gig iDevice especially considering the full Marine navigation charts for North America and Canada coasts and lakes I used and with depth soundings and much more details etc easily fit onto my 16GB iPad 2.

Perhaps, but how much space is actually left over on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and included apps are used? I don't know the answer to that myself.

 

[chscag]

Perhaps, but how much space is actually left over on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and included apps are used? I don't know the answer to that myself.

A 16GB iPhone isn't really 16GB to begin with. It's actually closer to around 14.5GB in true measurement. After loading iOS and basic apps that come with the phone, you'll have around 12GB of space for music. I'm currently using an iPhone 8 that's advertised as 64GB. When I look at its true space, it shows as 59.6GB, and that's without iOS and the Apple apps.

I would think you need at least a phone with 32GB of advertised storage. That will probably amount to around 29GB after iOS and apps.