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  1. #1
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    Mac users all know that command-Q will quit an application.

    It seems to me that people considering the switch from Windows to Mac OS X can be held back by little things like trying what they think should work to quit an applicatiion, alt-F4, and finding that it doesn't work.

    What I propose is that we suggest to Apple to make the key-combination alt-F4 be synonymous with command-Q.

    We did this once before, when the Mac keyboard didn't have an escape key etc. Now, good Mac OS X programs will let Mac users cancel with a command-period, and will respond in the way that a Windows user would expect when they press the "escape" key on the keyboard.

    We need people to be able to switch over easily or they won't switch.

  2. #2
    Ditto for control-alt-delete. Almost all Windows users learn this key combination. When they try it on the Mac to quit a runaway application, nothing happens.

    The Mac keyboards now have a control key.

    We should suggest to Apple that they define the keyboard combination: control-alt-delete to mean the same thing as command-option-escape.

    We need to make switching to the Mac as easy as possible to gain market-share.

  3. #3
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    Kash's Avatar
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    Or new users could, you know, learn the Mac way, which tends to be easier. And since the Mac way is generally easier, then I would propose Microsoft change its key combinations to the ones used in OS X. That way Windows users will feel right at home when switching, and those who decide to remain Windows users will have more logical and easier keyboard combinations.

    See how ludicrous that sounded?

    Oh, and btw, Apple isn't having much trouble getting marketshare, with it having just increased sales by 38%. Changing some key combinations to accommodate people who can't be bothered to learn new things isn't going to increase sales, and if it is, do you really want these kind of people to become Mac users? Can't you just imagine what else they'll be screaming for Apple to change to make OS X more like Windows under the guise of making the transition easier? So a simple key combination change ends up with Apple releasing OS 11 to look and work exactly like Windows...

    June 2007
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  4. #4
    I disagree that the Mac way is always easier. For example, remember command-period. What was that supposed to mean.

    "Escape" makes more sense.

    I don't believe that option-command-Escape is any more intuitive than control-alt-delete. They are both arbitrary. These are just a couple of things. I've seen my daughters raised on the Mac and when married, their husbands bought the computers and they were PCs running Windows.

    Once, my daughter came to my house to do some work on the Mac, remember she grew up with the Mac one-button mouse. She was a little disoriented and asked, "Where's the button". I explained that being the new one button mouse, the whole mouse is the button.

    So Apple has the "Mighty-Mouse", it's kinda weird to me. Apple is following more standards, but the Mighty-Mouse is your only choice of a mouse when you buy a Mac at

    http://store.apple.com/

    I'm an experienced Mac and Windows user and the Mighty Mouse made me feel like I couldn't control my computer. I got a standard-feeling Dell two button mouse with a standard-sized scroll wheel and feel right at home switching between Mac and Windows now.

    I think that the Might-Mouse suffers from feeling non-standard to both experienced Mac users and to switchers from PC.

    It just feels weird. I guess you could get used to this, this third thing, but every little thing that trips a user up keeps them from switching to the Mac.

  5. #5
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    skaheadpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydell View Post
    I disagree that the Mac way is always easier. For example, remember command-period. What was that supposed to mean.

    "Escape" makes more sense.

    I don't believe that option-command-Escape is any more intuitive than control-alt-delete. They are both arbitrary. These are just a couple of things. I've seen my daughters raised on the Mac and when married, their husbands bought the computers and they were PCs running Windows.

    Once, my daughter came to my house to do some work on the Mac, remember she grew up with the Mac one-button mouse. She was a little disoriented and asked, "Where's the button". I explained that being the new one button mouse, the whole mouse is the button.

    So Apple has the "Mighty-Mouse", it's kinda weird to me. Apple is following more standards, but the Mighty-Mouse is your only choice of a mouse when you buy a Mac at

    http://store.apple.com/

    I'm an experienced Mac and Windows user and the Mighty Mouse made me feel like I couldn't control my computer. I got a standard-feeling Dell two button mouse with a standard-sized scroll wheel and feel right at home switching between Mac and Windows now.

    I think that the Might-Mouse suffers from feeling non-standard to both experienced Mac users and to switchers from PC.

    It just feels weird. I guess you could get used to this, this third thing, but every little thing that trips a user up keeps them from switching to the Mac.
    Yeah, but making Macs more like Windows kinda defeats the point - and people who switch should be able to understand that things are going to be different.

    And I think Cmd+Q is far more obvious than Alt+F4 for quitting something, btw.

  6. #6
    >> And I think Cmd+Q is far more obvious than Alt+F4 for quitting something, btw.

    We could have both.

  7. #7
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    Dysfunction's Avatar
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    so write a keyboard macro

    cept there's no alt. Why add one when not needed?
    mike
    This machine kills fascists
    Got # ? phear the command line!

  8. #8
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    puaerotch's Avatar
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    Doesn't Alt+W close tabs in IE and Firefox for the PC? That's an awful lot like Command+W in OSX so why wouldn't Alt+Q be a better option for windows? I agree with skaheadpunk in that Command+Q is more obvious than Alt+F4
    Ridiculous- adjective: deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd. ex. It is ridiculous how many people think the word ridiculous is spelled with an 'e'.

  9. #9
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    cwa107's Avatar
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    Why does the Mac/OS X have to be a mirror of Windows and vice versa?
    Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!

    https://youtu.be/KHZ8ek-6ccc

  10. #10
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    ki99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysfunction View Post
    cept there's no alt. Why add one when not needed?

    option functions also as an alt key, and is so labeled on some mac keyboards.

    Quote Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
    Why does the Mac/OS X have to be a mirror of Windows and vice versa?
    it doesn't. but standardized keyboard shortcuts could prove to be very efficient, not only in people switching from one to the other, but for people who use both. it's just fun to argue which one is better.

    so IMO, not only does cmd+Q make more sense, but it is far easier to hit, i hate quitting windows apps with alt+f4 because it's such an awkward combination, and i usually have to use 2 hands. but i really do think that macs should incorporate ctrl+alt+delete. it has become almost a general knowledge to the average computer users that when your computer freezes, hit ctrl+alt+delete.

  11. #11
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    Dysfunction's Avatar
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    Anticipating the next complaint. Current mac 'boards.. it's is indeed so labeled.
    mike
    This machine kills fascists
    Got # ? phear the command line!

  12. #12
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    ki99's Avatar
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    wasn't complaining, just letting all the on the verge switchers know there was an alt key, it's not AS unfamiliar as they once thought!

  13. #13
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    Kash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydell View Post
    So Apple has the "Mighty-Mouse", it's kinda weird to me. Apple is following more standards, but the Mighty-Mouse is your only choice of a mouse when you buy a Mac at

    http://store.apple.com/

    I'm an experienced Mac and Windows user and the Mighty Mouse made me feel like I couldn't control my computer. I got a standard-feeling Dell two button mouse with a standard-sized scroll wheel and feel right at home switching between Mac and Windows now.

    I think that the Might-Mouse suffers from feeling non-standard to both experienced Mac users and to switchers from PC.
    For starters, I absolutely despise the Mighty Mouse, though I admit it's not wholly unusable. You can have both left and right buttons on a Mighty Mouse, though it can be a bit finicky when using it. However, complaining that Apple only sells an Apple product on its website is just asinine. You yourself just proved that you can buy another mouse and plug it in. It's called consumer choice. You don't like the Apple brand, then pick something else. It has nothing to do with the switch being easier or more difficult,but rather laziness if one can't be bothered to do a bit of research before buying something.

    Quote Originally Posted by puaerotch View Post
    Doesn't Alt+W close tabs in IE and Firefox for the PC? That's an awful lot like Command+W in OSX so why wouldn't Alt+Q be a better option for windows? I agree with skaheadpunk in that Command+Q is more obvious than Alt+F4
    It's Control+W on Windows

    June 2007
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  14. #14
    However, complaining that Apple only sells an Apple product on its website is just asinine. You yourself just proved that you can buy another mouse and plug it in. It's called consumer choice.
    It's just a waste of money and resources to have to buy a mighty mouse and then buy another mouse. It can be done, but this is a usability issue. The Mac should be useable out of the box.

  15. #15
    Alt-F4 and Command-Q
    cwa107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydell View Post
    It's just a waste of money and resources to have to buy a mighty mouse and then buy another mouse. It can be done, but this is a usability issue. The Mac should be useable out of the box.
    And it is. Just because you don't like the peripherals it comes with, doesn't make it "unusable".
    Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!

    https://youtu.be/KHZ8ek-6ccc

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