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  1. #16
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Ok, then snapshots are not the issue. Too bad, that's an easy fix.
    Jake

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by usagora View Post
    By the way, you could use iCloud as off-drive storage as long as you don't have it selected under System Preferences > iCloud. You can upload/download through the web interface (www.icloud.com). To my knowledge, Drop Box is not off-drive storage...it works just like iCloud. Box Drive, on the other hand, is.
    Interesting. Okay, thanks. Will keep that in mind once i get this problem solved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks.
    Last edited by jman995x; 02-09-2019 at 02:10 PM.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Well, I think the disk error comes from a different source. The image of Disk Utility you posted has an option to "Repair Permissions" and that option has not been around in a long time, so the version you booted from to do that check is probably pre-APFS and cannot read the drive, creating the error message. The drive may well be fine. The Recovery partition appears to be an older version of macOS. You might look at Apple in the Support area to see if there is a process to update the recovery partition. I know CCC can do that, but there may be a way to update it without third party tools. If you cannot find that, then make a bootable external drive with Mojave and boot from it to run Disk Utility to test the APFS internal SSD.



    So, I need to get my computer, and my life, back on track so I can start tackling my ever-growing To-Do List, put on hold by this iCloud Drive SNAFU.

    Here is what I'm looking to do, and I'd like feedback on it's feasibility, and if anybody thinks this is a bad idea, or if they have a better idea:

    Regardsless of what option I choose below, I'm going to do a Carbon Copy Clone of my drive before I do anything.
    Having said that, here are my two options, as I see it (unless I'm missing something).
    1. "Fix" the non-boot drives on my Fusion 3TB Drive (disk0s2 and disk1s2), effectively wiping them out. Now, this begs the question, are the "System" files/folder that is giving me the problem on the Boot Drive? If so, then "Fixing" said non-boot drives won't solve my problem, correct?
    2. If the "System" files/folder IS on the boot drive, I can also do a clean install, correct?
    3. IF I choose this later solution, the clean install, I don't need to do it from an external HDD, or anything like that, correct? The OS X operating system is already on my Fusion Drive and I would just have to boot into Recover Mode, Go to Disk Utility, Erase my Drives, Quit Disk Utility, then select Reinstall OS X....correct?
    4. Futhermore, IF I do choose to do the clean install as mentioned above, should I "Fix" the drives before doing it, or will the wiping/reinstalling of OS X take care of that?


    I'd like to do this today (within the next 1-2 hours), so am eagerly awaiting any and all feedback/guidance.

    As always, thanks for any and all help.

  4. #19
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    The drives you see in that old version of Disk Utility are NOT, repeat NOT, non-boot, nor are they damaged. The old version of Disk Utility does not understand the new APFS format that has been applied by Mojave. So there is ZERO reason to wipe them out, IMHO.

    The System files are definitely on the boot drive, and the boot drive is one of those two the old version of Disk Utility is showing you. So if you do press on and delete those drives, you have wiped out all the data on them.

    You can do a clean install, just not from wherever you ran that old version of Disk Utility. If that is in the Recovery Partition on the drive, it will not reinstall Mojave, but something older, much older, as that old version of Disk Utility has functions (relating to permissions) that have not been available for several versions.

    Recovery mode, assuming that is where you got that old version of Disk Utility, will install only that old version, leaving you to go through the update process again to get back to Mojave.

    I would not bother to try to "fix" the partitions with that old version of Disk Utility, and I really don't think they need "fixing" at all. It's the old version of Disk Utility that causes the supposed error, not the drive.

    All that said, if you have a backup, you can reinstall Mojave on the drive completely by following the instructions here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

    That document shows how to make a bootable installer on a USB stick for Mojave, which is what you need. Create it, boot into it, then use Disk Utility to erase the drive, then reinstall the OS. That will wipe out everything on the drive, so make a backup first. Once it is installed, you can then use Migration Assistant at the very first time it offers, to restore from the backup. Some products, like those from Microsoft and Adobe, may need to be re-registered to work. The system files that are causing problems should not be brought back by migration.

    It will take more than 1-2 hours to do all of this. Plus, by doing this you won't know what actually caused the problem, so it could return.
    Jake

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    The drives you see in that old version of Disk Utility are NOT, repeat NOT, non-boot, nor are they damaged. The old version of Disk Utility does not understand the new APFS format that has been applied by Mojave. So there is ZERO reason to wipe them out, IMHO.

    The System files are definitely on the boot drive, and the boot drive is one of those two the old version of Disk Utility is showing you. So if you do press on and delete those drives, you have wiped out all the data on them.

    You can do a clean install, just not from wherever you ran that old version of Disk Utility. If that is in the Recovery Partition on the drive, it will not reinstall Mojave, but something older, much older, as that old version of Disk Utility has functions (relating to permissions) that have not been available for several versions.

    Recovery mode, assuming that is where you got that old version of Disk Utility, will install only that old version, leaving you to go through the update process again to get back to Mojave.

    I would not bother to try to "fix" the partitions with that old version of Disk Utility, and I really don't think they need "fixing" at all. It's the old version of Disk Utility that causes the supposed error, not the drive.

    All that said, if you have a backup, you can reinstall Mojave on the drive completely by following the instructions here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

    That document shows how to make a bootable installer on a USB stick for Mojave, which is what you need. Create it, boot into it, then use Disk Utility to erase the drive, then reinstall the OS. That will wipe out everything on the drive, so make a backup first. Once it is installed, you can then use Migration Assistant at the very first time it offers, to restore from the backup. Some products, like those from Microsoft and Adobe, may need to be re-registered to work. The system files that are causing problems should not be brought back by migration.

    It will take more than 1-2 hours to do all of this. Plus, by doing this you won't know what actually caused the problem, so it could return.

    Ok, just to make sure I understand what you're saying:

    1. When I upgraded to Mojave, it changed my drive format from HFS+ to APFS, and therefore the version of Disk Utility that came with my machine when it was new, didn't know that in the future (read: now) there would be such at thing as APFS, so Disk Utility is looking at APFS like a side dish it didn't order, correct?
    2. I ran Disk Utility from the internal 3TB Fusion HDD that came with my machine, and therefore if I do a reinstall it'll install the original OS X that came with the system (I think, Lion), and then I'll have to spend time to upgrade to Mojave...but even though I'll have done that, the reinstall will give me the older version of Disk Utility, which will once again look at the new APFS format like a side dish it didn't order, and I might be left with more (false) "Disk Error" messages.
    3. I can install Mojave from the link you sent me without having to do anything before hand (PROVIDED that I my current drive backed up via CCC, correct?).
    4. I do this via a bootable installer I'm going to make on a USB stick containing said Mojave OS.
    5. Here's where I need some clarification...


    • Once I have booted from the USB Stick (which I'm assuming I do by restarting the machine in Recovery Mode, then selecting the USB Stick as the boot source, correct?).
    • I then choose the Disk Utility (FROM THE USB STICK AS WELL, correct?)...
    • Erase the drive(s)...
    • Quit Disk Utility...
    • Reinstall the (new Mojave) OS from the USB Stick...
    • Use Migration Assistant to restore from the CCC backup...


    1. Will I need CCC to be installed in order to do this, or a clone is a clone and my iMac, now running Mojave, will have access to this clone?
    2. Will Migration Assistant let me pick-and-choose which files I want replaced (because in addition to NOT wanting the bloated "System" file replaced, there may be other large files that I don't reinstalled due to lack of use, and would rather just keep in the clone backup)?
    3. I'm supremely confident that this screwup was a result of iCloud somehow confusing my computer, as it would be almost statisitcally impossible for me to have deleted 840GBs of information on one day, and then have my computer not only suck the next day, but also have that exact amount of space clogging my "System" folder. So, when you say by wiping out the computer and doing a fresh install I won't know what exactly caused the problem, at this point I need my computer and my life back and much as I'd like to know the exact culprit, I just don't have any more time to spend playing Columbo.
    4. So, I'll wait for your confirmation that I have everything correct, and will then pull the trigger with the Backup/USB Bootable Installer/Disk Utility Erase/Reinstall OS Mojave/Migration Assistant process.

  6. #21
    New Wrinkle...

    I installed the USB, downloaded the Mojave OS from the App Store and was given a choice where to save it.
    I chose the USB (which is greyed out), and was given the error message in the top window.
    I opened Disk Utility, selected the USB, erased it, then selected "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", which I'm assuming is what is meant when it says "Select Volume Scheme".
    I then clicked erase, again, which it did.
    But....the Mojave Installer still doesn't recognize the USB drive.
    Is this, once again, because I have an outdated Disk Utility and this modern-day error message would be fixable with a modern-day Disk Utility, but the "GUID Partition Table Scheme" isn't available on my older Disk Utility?

    Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 6.39.00 PM.jpg

    Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 6.45.19 PM.jpg

  7. #22
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    ferrarr's Avatar
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    You can't just "save" a macOS to. a USB drive, you need to make it into a bootable drive. See this, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372.
    -- Bob --
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrarr View Post
    You can't just "save" a macOS to. a USB drive, you need to make it into a bootable drive. See this, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372.
    Duh...too much multitasking...forgot to read the rest of the document on how to create the bootable installer.

    Having said that, I've done everything the instructions said, but received a slightly different completion message than the screenshot on the webpage. I'm assuming, though, that the process was completed correctly.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 7.12.49 PM.jpg

    Now...
    The process changed the name of my 64GB USB drive to "Install macOS Mojave" and shows it mounted in the Finder menu on the left...HOWEVER, said USB is NOT showing up as an option in my
    Preferences > Startup Disk screen.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 7.19.14 PM.jpg

    I'm assuming because this is the INSTALLER APP, and not the actual OS, correct?

    If I'm correct in that assumption, I then am going to restart my computer in Recovery Mode and when asked where I'd like to boot from just choose the USB Stick and the rest of the process should be self evident, correct?

  9. #24
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Ok, back to some basics. The screens you showed with options for where to install Mojave are for INSTALLING Mojave. And Mojave requires APFS as the drive format. And the disk Utility you pictured is from BEFORE Mojave, so it doesn't show APFS.

    Now let's look at your questions: Warning, this is going to be long.
    Ok, just to make sure I understand what you're saying:

    When I upgraded to Mojave, it changed my drive format from HFS+ to APFS, and therefore the version of Disk Utility that came with my machine when it was new, didn't know that in the future (read: now) there would be such at thing as APFS, so Disk Utility is looking at APFS like a side dish it didn't order, correct?
    Yes, and it will never work with Mojave.
    I ran Disk Utility from the internal 3TB Fusion HDD that came with my machine, and therefore if I do a reinstall it'll install the original OS X that came with the system (I think, Lion), and then I'll have to spend time to upgrade to Mojave...but even though I'll have done that, the reinstall will give me the older version of Disk Utility, which will once again look at the new APFS format like a side dish it didn't order, and I might be left with more (false) "Disk Error" messages.
    Disk Utility does not install the OS.There are separate processes to do that. And the installer for Mojave should reformat the drive to use APFS as part of the installation. At least it will if there is an OS on the drive already and that OS is being upgraded. That's how it's supposed to work. I'm pretty sure it will change any drive as it is installed to that drive to APFS as part of the process.
    I can install Mojave from the link you sent me without having to do anything before hand (PROVIDED that I my current drive backed up via CCC, correct?).
    I do this via a bootable installer I'm going to make on a USB stick containing said Mojave OS.
    Yes, the link I provided is from Apple about how to install Mojave. Read the entire thing until you have firm grasp on what it is you need to do, step by step. Maybe even print it off to have at hand as you go through the process.
    Here's where I need some clarification...


    Once I have booted from the USB Stick (which I'm assuming I do by restarting the machine in Recovery Mode, then selecting the USB Stick as the boot source, correct?).
    Yes. Boot holding down the CMD+R keys until the options screen appears for the boot options. Select the USB stick.
    I then choose the Disk Utility (FROM THE USB STICK AS WELL, correct?)...
    When it is booted, you will have a screen with four options. One of those options is Disk Utility. That Disk Utility will be the proper DU for Mojave. Use that to partition and format the internal drive to APFS. (Make a backup before you start any of this, obviously.)
    Erase the drive(s)...
    Quit Disk Utility...
    Reinstall the (new Mojave) OS from the USB Stick...
    Once the install is complete, it should either boot directly to the new installation or go back to the four options screen. I don't remember which. In either event, you will want to boot into the new installation on the internal drive. It will then ask some setup questions about language and time, including one about encrypting the entire drive with File Vault (I recommend you not use that because if you lose the password, the drive will be locked permanently. FV also has some issues with updates, or has had them. I don't use FV at all, personally.) and then offer to restore from backup, old drive, etc. Take that option to restore. That will launch Migration Assistant.
    Use Migration Assistant to restore from the CCC backup...
    Yep.

    Now for the second set:
    installed the USB, downloaded the Mojave OS from the App Store and was given a choice where to save it.
    Already addressed this above.
    I chose the USB (which is greyed out), and was given the error message in the top window.
    I opened Disk Utility, selected the USB, erased it, then selected "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", which I'm assuming is what is meant when it says "Select Volume Scheme".
    I then clicked erase, again, which it did.
    But....the Mojave Installer still doesn't recognize the USB drive.
    Is this, once again, because I have an outdated Disk Utility and this modern-day error message would be fixable with a modern-day Disk Utility, but the "GUID Partition Table Scheme" isn't available on my older Disk Utility?
    Yes, old Disk Utility. Make the bootable USB stick following the directions. NOTE: GUID is set in the Partition button, not in the format button, so first do a Partition, create ONE partition that is GUID, then select that partition in the left column when it is indented and ERASE it to format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Once that is done, the process to create the bootable installer will continue.

    Will I need CCC to be installed in order to do this, or a clone is a clone and my iMac, now running Mojave, will have access to this clone?
    CCC should be on the clone. You can do a quick check if you want to, but if you use Migration Assistant to retrieve from the CCC clone, it won't matter if CCC is on the drive or not. If for any reason it's NOT on the CCC backup drive, you can reinstall it to the new internal drive after the Migration Assistant is done.
    Will Migration Assistant let me pick-and-choose which files I want replaced (because in addition to NOT wanting the bloated "System" file replaced, there may be other large files that I don't reinstalled due to lack of use, and would rather just keep in the clone backup)?
    Yes, you can select what you want to restore. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204350 has detailed instructions on how MA works and what to expect as you use it. You might want to print that one, too.
    I'm supremely confident that this screwup was a result of iCloud somehow confusing my computer, as it would be almost statisitcally impossible for me to have deleted 840GBs of information on one day, and then have my computer not only suck the next day, but also have that exact amount of space clogging my "System" folder. So, when you say by wiping out the computer and doing a fresh install I won't know what exactly caused the problem, at this point I need my computer and my life back and much as I'd like to know the exact culprit, I just don't have any more time to spend playing Columbo.
    So, I'll wait for your confirmation that I have everything correct, and will then pull the trigger with the Backup/USB Bootable Installer/Disk Utility Erase/Reinstall OS Mojave/Migration Assistant process.
    I'm not so supremely confident that iCloud caused the problem. But that doesn't matter at this point. Get back in the water and you can look for the cause if it starts to fill up again.
    Jake

  10. #25
    Hello Jake,

    Thanks for the lengthy reply.
    Hopefully my clarification questions/replies are not as lengthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Disk Utility does not install the OS.There are separate processes to do that. And the installer for Mojave should reformat the drive to use APFS as part of the installation. At least it will if there is an OS on the drive already and that OS is being upgraded. That's how it's supposed to work. I'm pretty sure it will change any drive as it is installed to that drive to APFS as part of the process.
    ^^^^^^
    I understand that DU does not install the OS, but thanks for clarifying.
    Also, I thought I read somewhere that Fusion Drives couldn't be upgraded to APFS. Does that sound right?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    NOTE: GUID is set in the Partition button, not in the format button, so first do a Partition, create ONE partition that is GUID, then select that partition in the left column when it is indented and ERASE it to format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Once that is done, the process to create the bootable installer will continue.
    ^^^^^^
    I seem to remember that the "Partition" button was greyed out when I clicked on the USB drive in DU.
    Having said that, I erased the USB drive entirely, followed the directions to install the "install macOS Mojave App" on the USB drive using the Terminal commands on the instruction webpage, and was given this Terminal result:

    Screen Shot 2019-02-09 at 7.12.49 PM.jpg

    IS THIS USB BOOTABLE, even though I didn't partition the USB Stick?
    Since the SOLE purpose of this USB Stick (at the moment) is to serve as a Bootable "Drive" to get me to the point where I can deiiver its package to my iMac's OS for installation, and I don't care what else is on the USB, do I still need to partition it in order for this to be a viable Boot "Drive"?
    In other words, since I didn't partition the USB Stick, even though Terminal is indicating that it is good to go as a Bootable Drive, is that incorrect, and I, in fact, need to re-erase the USB Stick, partition it, and the do the Terminal installaton command again?

    Sorry, I know a lot of this stuff is second nature to you and therefore very simple, but I'm just learning this stuff and don't want to screw anything up.

    Thanks,

    Justin

  11. #26
    UPDATE....

    I just found another article that states that APFS will finally be supported on Fusion Drives with the release of Mojave 10.14 (which I have, and obviously just downloaded and put on the USB Stick...so, you can negate that question from the post above).

    Thanks.

  12. #27
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Yes, the USB stick should now be bootable. You can put it in the USB slot, boot the machine with CMD+R or Option held down and wait until the options appear. Select the USB drive and boot. You should end up at the four options screen and can then pick what you want. I'd start with Disk Utility to partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS. Then do the Install and let it rip.
    Jake

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Yes, the USB stick should now be bootable. You can put it in the USB slot, boot the machine with CMD+R or Option held down and wait until the options appear. Select the USB drive and boot. You should end up at the four options screen and can then pick what you want. I'd start with Disk Utility to partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS. Then do the Install and let it rip.
    Ok.....

    Just want to confirm the process one more time, because I seem to recall some steps from earlier posts that said that I'd have to (once booted from the USB), then open up DU, ERASE the drives, quit DU, THEN install the OS.
    So, when you say, "with DU, partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS"...will that also erase the rest of the FUSION Drive in the process, creating a clean slate as it were?.... or do I for some reason no longer need to erase the drives as that will automatically happen during the process you listed above?

  14. #29
    MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Yes, that is what you do. The Fusion drive will look like ONE drive to you and to the installer. The entire thing will end up being APFS. I mis-spoke about the SSD, I thought you had an internal SSD, but that's from another thread. So, open DU, verify the the internal drive is GUID and has one partition on it. Frankly, at that point you can Quit out of DU, then run the Mojave installer and it will format the drive for you with APFS and recovery partitions and everything it needs.
    Jake

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Yes, that is what you do. The Fusion drive will look like ONE drive to you and to the installer. The entire thing will end up being APFS. I mis-spoke about the SSD, I thought you had an internal SSD, but that's from another thread. So, open DU, verify the the internal drive is GUID and has one partition on it. Frankly, at that point you can Quit out of DU, then run the Mojave installer and it will format the drive for you with APFS and recovery partitions and everything it needs.
    OHHH....KAY....now we're cooking with gas.

    Thank you VERY MUCH for all of your help and taking the time to walk me through everything.

    I REALLY appreciate it.

    I'll let you know if I have any hiccups.

    Have a good night.

    Best regards,

    Justin

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