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  1. #46
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?
    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 01, 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    1,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sprague View Post
    I note Randy that you take exception to my statement, "There is also resistance to backing up to iCloud. ...

    I would argue that iCloud has had a pretty good track record as far as security goes.
    For a while there Apple was in the news constantly with regard to their on again/off again cooperation with the government. They HAVE, at times, given the government access to the information that they hold for users.

    And news about break-ins to cloud-based services has been rampant. Heck, even Yahoo and Facebook have been hacked.

    And...have you heard about "The Red Gorilla Effect?"

    Of course, the biggest problem with backing up to the cloud isn't even security, it's that access to the Internet itself is a huge bottleneck. (It's okay as a lower-tier solution in a multi-tiered backup plan, but not a great idea as a primary or secondary backup solution.) Here's the deal. Most broadband ISPs have monthly data caps in the 300 GB to 1,000 GB range. Also most ISPs provide much lower upload speeds than download speeds. Typical Comcast 50 megabit/sec service is about 10 megabit/sec upload. So it might take many days to back up a modern medium-range desktop system. To back up a 3TB iMac 27" would take about a month.

    When a failure happens and you must recover, time is often of the essence (at least it is if you are running a business). You want to get back to work ASAP. Assuming you patiently waited a month to back up your 3TB Mac 27" to the cloud, if your hard drive crashed it it would take six days to recover your data from the cloud over a 50 megabit/sec connection.

    Backing up to an inexpensive rotating disk hard drive that you purchase from someplace like Other World Computing, using something like SuperDuper! or CarbonCopyCloner, will be way faster, more flexible, recovering your data will be instantaneous, and will provide a much higher level of security.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sprague View Post
    Much of my reasoning is based on my "disaster plan", living as I do half of the year in Bali, a volcanic island subject to volcanic eruptions and tsunami.
    What would I do in the event of a large earthquake or flood?
    Cloud-based backup, as I said, is fine as part of a multi-tiered backup plan where your data is very important to you and you want to provide a fail-safe. However, I wouldn't choose it as the first or second tier of a backup plan.

    Worried about your data in the event of a natural disaster? For users with a need for an off-site fail-safe backup (in addition to a regular backup), I instead suggest a limited backup of just their data (e.g. your Documents folder and anything else that absolutely can't be replaced) to a portable backup medium (e.g. a large capacity flash drive or one of the new pocket-able SSD's that look sort of like a flash drive but have a huge capacity) that they always keep with them in their pocket. If your office or home suffers a fire, flood, or theft, your invaluable data will be with you and if you survive it will survive. That's about all that you need from a fail-safe off-site backup.

    I have spoken about multi-tiered backup plans here before, haven't I?

    You may want to check out:

    Backing Up Your Mac: A Joe On Tech Guide
    (Take Control Books)
    https://www.takecontrolbooks.com/jot-backing-up
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  2. #47
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?

    Member Since
    Dec 13, 2009
    Posts
    209
    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Air mid-2013 4GB, and other machines
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Cloning with CCC, testing that clone and restoring from it with Migration Assistant is not really much of a "chore," actually.
    It is if you have no idea about all that. Heck, I'm fairly knowledgeable and I'm just getting to that point. It takes a fair amount of work for a noob to figure out what to do and how to do it, and that is NOT what many people want to spend their time doing. So I think the "don't want to update" is often "oh god that means I gotta figure out how I should back up and what if some app or functionality doesn't work and what if I have to re-register my XXX software which I can't because it was from my old work and I don't work there anymore and/or it was bootlegged and/or I don't know where the *bleep* the install discs have got to so please oh lord isn't there some other magic way?!?!?"

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Head_Unit View Post
    It is if you have no idea about all that. Heck, I'm fairly knowledgeable and I'm just getting to that point. It takes a fair amount of work for a noob to figure out what to do and how to do it, and that is NOT what many people want to spend their time doing. So I think the "don't want to update" is often "oh god that means I gotta figure out how I should back up and what if some app or functionality doesn't work and what if I have to re-register my XXX software which I can't because it was from my old work and I don't work there anymore and/or it was bootlegged and/or I don't know where the *bleep* the install discs have got to so please oh lord isn't there some other magic way?!?!?"
    I don't really understand why you think using CCC or SD is complicated.
    You launch the application, select the drive you want to copy from, usually the hard drive, select the drive you want to copy to, and that's it.
    Super Duper that I have used more recently just asks you if you want to use that backup with Time Machine - I always say "no", and then you just let it run.

    If you need the clone/backup because your main drive is corrupt or something like that, you just clone the backup back - no restoring using Migration assistant, also no need to reregister anything. Migration assistant is used when you move to a new OS, not for straight backups.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy B. Singer View Post
    For a while there Apple was in the news constantly with regard to their on again/off again cooperation with the government. They HAVE, at times, given the government access to the information that they hold for users..............................
    People commenting in this thread have very different opinions about the various aspects being discussed - which is fine.

    What surprises me is that I pretty much agree with everything Randy has posted since I joined the forum.

  5. #50
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?
    IWT's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 23, 2009
    Location
    Born in Scotland, Worked in Scotland then England, Now live in Wales
    Posts
    5,465
    Your Mac's Specs
    Late 2015 5K 27-inch Retina iMac, 4GHz i7, 32GB RAM, 1TB Flash Drive, macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
    If you need the clone/backup because your main drive is corrupt or something like that, you just clone the backup back - no restoring using Migration assistant, also no need to reregister anything. Migration assistant is used when you move to a new OS, not for straight backups.
    You are correct if the problem is a broken Internal Drive and you replace it; but if you purchase a new Mac, almost certainly it will have a different OS (the latest) and you just can't clone back to that new Mac. For one thing, it wouldn't accept an OS older than that with which it shipped. And there could be Firmware and other changes which would be different.

    That's when you need to use Migration Assistant to copy over all your settings and apps etc. That's when re-registering apps like MS, Adobe products and others become a pain.

    I agree it's not "difficult" if you've done it before; but could be scary to first-timers.

    Ian
    Ian

  6. #51
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?
    pm-r's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 16, 2010
    Location
    Brentwood Bay, BC, Canada
    Posts
    11,295
    What surprises me is that I pretty much agree with everything Randy has posted since I joined the forum.

    That may be due to you reading most of his posts at the ehMac.ca forums.





    - Patrick
    ======
    Last edited by pm-r; 01-29-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by IWT View Post
    You are correct if the problem is a broken Internal Drive and you replace it; but if you purchase a new Mac, almost certainly it will have a different OS (the latest) and you just can't clone back to that new Mac. For one thing, it wouldn't accept an OS older than that with which it shipped. And there could be Firmware and other changes which would be different.

    That's when you need to use Migration Assistant to copy over all your settings and apps etc. That's when re-registering apps like MS, Adobe products and others become a pain.

    I agree it's not "difficult" if you've done it before; but could be scary to first-timers.

    Ian
    Well, I differentiate between recovering from some sort of failure of the current Mac using a clone backup and migrating an existing Mac and the data to a new Mac.
    Post #14 seems to mix up the two processes - I was just commenting on the process to recover from a failure of the current Mac where one wants to recover from that failure.

    Migration to a new Mac is a different process, not really any more complicated than recovering using a clone but not a "clean", ie some apps may not work at all, some may require upissues, and a few require reregistration. I have also had family members swear that they lost files when migrating but I could never verify that.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    That may be due to you reading most of his posts at the ehMac.ca forums.

    - Patrick
    ======
    I don't actually recall Randy's posts on ehMac.ca - my comments were from my own experience.

    I find over the years Apple is trying more and more to force one totally into their eco system and I don't like it one bit.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    I find over the years Apple is trying more and more to force one totally into their eco system and I don't like it one bit.
    What specifically are you referring to here? I've been using Macs exclusively for about 14 years, and never felt forced into anything, but maybe we're on different wave lengths of thought here. But aside from that, I would assume people who buy Apple products like the Apple ecosystem, so it would seem to be a moot point.
    Last edited by usagora; 01-29-2019 at 03:48 PM.
    -Jonathan
    iMac (27-inch, Late 2012) - 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
    MacBook Air (13-inch, Mid 2012) - 1.8 GHz Intel Core i5

  10. #55
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?
    ferrarr's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 21, 2012
    Location
    Pawtucket, RI, US
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    6,180
    Your Mac's Specs
    L2014 Mac mini macOS 14, iPhone 8+ iOS 12, 12.9" iPad Pro 1 iOS 12, Pencil 1
    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    I don't actually recall Randy's posts on ehMac.ca - my comments were from my own experience.

    I find over the years Apple is trying more and more to force one totally into their eco system and I don't like it one bit.
    Yes, they like to have control over their systems, so the non techie users don't mess everything up ad need help, with their self made issues. The technical people will either live with it, or move along.
    -- Bob --
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by usagora View Post
    What specifically are you referring to here? I've been using Macs exclusively for about 14 years, and never felt forced into anything, but maybe we're on different wave lengths of thought here. But aside from that, I would assume people who buy Apple products like the Apple ecosystem, so it would seem to be a moot point.
    The latest thing that got me annoyed was the constant message that popped up several times a day that the Mac couldn't log into iCloud.
    I never used iCloud, don't want to use and have no interest in using it.
    There was no option that said "Thanks, but no thanks" - to get rid of those annoying pop ups I finally logged in to get them to stop, but now I'm wandering what the Mac is uploading to the cloud without my knowledge.

    I like the Mac, have for a very long time, but find Apple pushing their apps and services over and over again with no option for "Thanks, but no" pretty annoying.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    The latest thing that got me annoyed was the constant message that popped up several times a day that the Mac couldn't log into iCloud.
    I never used iCloud, don't want to use and have no interest in using it.
    There was no option that said "Thanks, but no thanks" - to get rid of those annoying pop ups I finally logged in to get them to stop, but now I'm wandering what the Mac is uploading to the cloud without my knowledge.

    I like the Mac, have for a very long time, but find Apple pushing their apps and services over and over again with no option for "Thanks, but no" pretty annoying.
    Hmm, well I use iCloud to sync my messages and calendars between devices, so I'm always signed in. But all you have to do is go to System Preferences > iCloud to enable or disable any iCloud services. Simple.
    Last edited by usagora; 01-29-2019 at 04:59 PM.
    -Jonathan
    iMac (27-inch, Late 2012) - 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
    MacBook Air (13-inch, Mid 2012) - 1.8 GHz Intel Core i5

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by usagora View Post
    Hmm, well I use iCloud to sync my messages and calendars between devices, so I'm always signed in. But all you have to do is go to System Settings > iCloud to enable or disable any iCloud services. Simple.
    By "System Settings" do you mean "System Preferences"?

    Under System Preferences > iCloud there is no enable/disable option - all I get is a short description of what it does and an option to log in or create an Apple ID or recovery if I forgot my Apple ID. That's on El Camino.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    By "System Settings" do you mean "System Preferences"?

    Under System Preferences > iCloud there is no enable/disable option - all I get is a short description of what it does and an option to log in or create an Apple ID or recovery if I forgot my Apple ID. That's on El Camino.
    Yes, I thought about that typo after I had already posted and was doing something else. Corrected.

    Ok, so now I'm confused. You said in your previous post that you had logged into iCloud to stop the annoying messages. So I'm not sure how when you go to System Preferences > iCloud that it shows that you're not logged in. I assume you mean El Capitan, and as far as I remember there was nothing different between iCloud settings in El Capitan than later versions of macOS. I guess as long as you're not getting any messages prompting you to sign into iCloud, then all is well, but that's definitely where you would go, were you signed in, in order to enable or disable the various iCloud services.

    Set up iCloud on your Mac
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208682
    -Jonathan
    iMac (27-inch, Late 2012) - 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
    MacBook Air (13-inch, Mid 2012) - 1.8 GHz Intel Core i5

  15. #60
    Why all this resistance to updating/upgrading ?
    pm-r's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 16, 2010
    Location
    Brentwood Bay, BC, Canada
    Posts
    11,295
    I like the Mac, have for a very long time, but find Apple pushing their apps and services over and over again with no option for "Thanks, but no" pretty annoying.

    At least we seemed to have gotten a bit of a delay from yet another Apple nag notice while I was working with my wife's 2007 24" iMac last week., But in actuality, I guess they actually mean to go and buy a newer model that could actually run Mojave!!! Gheese!!

    I must remember to hit the "Details" button the next time it pops up and see what they acvtually might have in mind (she's already running El Capitan which is more than enough):


    update to Mojave Screen Shot 2019-01-19 at 2.38.07 PM.png






    - Patrick
    ======

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