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  1. #61
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    What makes you think there are no viruses for the Mac?
    There are not a lot, but the number is certainly not zero
    It goes back to a discussion that we've had several times here on Mac-Forums previously, but which some seem to consistently ignore.

    It all hinges on how you define "virus". Traditionally Windows users (and the general media and public) define a "virus" as "all malware." Macintosh users tend to use a narrower, and more correct, definition. Mac users traditionally define a "virus" as a piece of "self-propagating malware."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_virus
    The latter definition excludes Trojans, adware, spyware, etc.

    There are no viruses (defined as self-propagating malware) in the wild for the Macintosh. NONE. There have been two "proof of concept" viruses for the Macintosh, but one was non-malicious and the other the Mac OS has been patched against so it is now extinct. They were apparently created to make the point that creating an actual virus for the Mac is possible (if not necessarily easy.)

    However, if you use the term "virus" to refer to all malware (as most Windows users do), then saying that there "are viruses for the Macintosh" is correct. While the amount of malware for the Mac isn't in the same ballpark as for Windows (roughly about 70 mostly innocuous or extinct examples for the Mac, compared to well over A MILLION (!!!) for Windows), it definitely exists. Here is a nice list from a believable source that unfortunately stopped being updated a few years ago (but there hasn't been a flood of malware for the Macintosh in the interim):
    http://www.thesafemac.com/mmg-catalog/

    So....folks who go around saying that "there are no viruses for the Macintosh" are technically correct, but saying that is misleading if it leads the listener to believe that there is no malware for the Macintosh. There ARE a relitively small number of Trojans, macro viruses, adware, etc. for the Macintosh. Just about none of it is a threat currently, but it has and does exist.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  2. #62
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    OK, Thanks, Randy. It's hard to communicate inflection in type.
    I know, right?

    That's why we use emojis when we are trying to be funny, sarcastic, or to show we are mad.

    People often say that I'm "mad", but I think that they mean something else.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  3. #63
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy B. Singer View Post
    ...The latter definition excludes Trojans, adware, spyware, etc.

    However, if you use the term "virus" to refer to all malware (as most Windows users do), then saying that there "are viruses for the Macintosh" is correct.
    One thing that I forgot to point out. There is confusion on how to classify adware. (As if we needed any more confusion...) Adware is non-malicious, in that it causes no real harm, and no data loss. But it is exceedingly annoying in that it causes your computer to serve up ads that you don't want to see.

    Since adware technically isn't malicious, most sources don't classify it as "malware." In fact, many (most?) legitimate anti-virus software doesn't look for adware. That's why, even when you have an excellent commercial anti-virus program, you will also probably want an anti-adware program, like DetectX.

    It's also why DetectX and MalwareBytes, even though they have very misleading advertising about what they can and cannot do, can't be recommended AGAINST. Because their anti-adware abilities are first-rate and invaluable.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  4. #64
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    Rod's Avatar
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    Best Anti Virus software for Mac
    "A computer virus is a type of malicious software that, when executed, replicates itself by modifying other computer programs and inserting its own code.1 When this replication succeeds, the affected areas are then said to be “infected” with a computer virus." Wikipedia 2018
    You will note "replication" is the term rather than propagation. Not to be picky but propagation has a much wider range of uses.Best Anti Virus software for Mac


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  5. #65
    I understand the different types of malware, but I suppose the definitions are not cast in concrete.
    The last article I posted a link to specifically identifies three pieces of malware as viruses.

  6. #66
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    @Randy
    Here is a nice list from a believable source that unfortunately stopped being updated a few years ago (but there hasn't been a flood of malware for the Macintosh in the interim):
    http://www.thesafemac.com/mmg-catalog/

    It's interesting that you would mention that site that was started and run by Thomas Reed who also created and released the AdwareMedic.app (which still seems to work and update itself), and that became and evolved into the Malwarebytes for Mac.app that we now refer to.

    PS: I got the impression from your earlier posts that you were recommending not to use Malwarebytes due to some possible nefarious behaviour.

    Anyway, Malwarebytes remains as part of my Mac OS X aresonal and probably will as long as Thomas Reed remains involved with its development AFAIC.





    - Patrick
    ======

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sprague View Post
    Yes krs, I say this very quietly, I do use CMMX. I have been using Clean My Mac since it's introduction years ago, despite advice to the contrary by several members of this forum. This was valid and well intentioned advice against any software caperble of altering system files and as such it is good advice. I do not promote it because it is a powerful tool with the potential to do irreversible harm but I could argue that OnyX is just as dangerous. If you do use it ensure you have a bootable clone first and don't fiddle with default settings unless you have read the full description of what each does. Like removing email attachments.
    I was thinking of using CMMX strictly to scan for malware - nothing else.
    VirusBarrier driving up the CPU temperature to over 200 degrees, or even 160 is a definite 'nogo' for me.Max operating temperature I see for Intel i5 and i7 is somewhere around 67 and 69 degrees C which is around 155F.
    The CPU on my Mac runs around 50 to 55ºC, only hits 60ºC rarely.

  8. #68
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    BTW: A friend just sent me the pdf version of this article that some might appreciate reading, and yes from the Malwarebytes site:
    2019 State of Malware report: Trojans and cryptominers dominate threat landscape
    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/malwar...eat-landscape/

    Since it seems to be part of the current thread discussion.






    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #69
    I personally have seen an increase in social engineering threats - they are getting better and better.

    Latest one was an email that seemed to have come from my ISP with a message that there were 8 emails in quarantine with a request to check them and delete them if necessary - and right in the email it showed exactly the standard login window complete with logo. There was no link or anything particular suspicious.
    I almost fell for that.

  10. #70
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    I understand the different types of malware, but I suppose the definitions are not cast in concrete.
    The last article I posted a link to specifically identifies three pieces of malware as viruses.
    If you are referring to the MacPaw article...I think that article is an excellent example of a source using the term "virus" to mean "all malware", as Windows users do, not "a self-propagating piece of malware" which would be more technically correct. Note that the "viruses" in question are not disseminated via self-propagation, but rather you must volitionally download them from somewhere.

    So, once again, technically there are NO viruses in the wild for the Macintosh. But there IS DEFINITELY malware for the Macintosh.

    Actually, I don't think that anyone should be using the phrasing "there are no viruses for the Macintosh" without explanation. Because while technically correct, it is quite misleading.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  11. #71
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    Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    I was thinking of using CMMX strictly to scan for malware - nothing else.
    VirusBarrier driving up the CPU temperature to over 200 degrees, or even 160 is a definite 'nogo' for me.Max operating temperature I see for Intel i5 and i7 is somewhere around 67 and 69 degrees C which is around 155F.
    The CPU on my Mac runs around 50 to 55ºC, only hits 60ºC rarely.
    Ah well, although I've tried it out of curiosity I cannot vouch for its effectiveness removing malware. Primarily I use it to empty caches. System trash and for uninstalling old unused apps. It does have a lot of convenient features and for a one stop cleanup it's very good so long as you understand what it will do and as usual have a backup before use. Having said all that it has never caused a problem for me.


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    It's interesting that you would mention that site that was started and run by Thomas Reed who also created and released the AdwareMedic.app (which still seems to work and update itself), and that became and evolved into the Malwarebytes for Mac.app that we now refer to.

    PS: I got the impression from your earlier posts that you were recommending not to use Malwarebytes due to some possible nefarious behaviour.

    Anyway, Malwarebytes remains as part of my Mac OS X aresonal and probably will as long as Thomas Reed remains involved with its development AFAIC.
    I do recommend Thomas' old Web site. He was an extremely honest and un-biased resource.

    However, I can't say the same for the MalwareBytes folks who hired him and co-opted his old software to serve as the basis for their software.

    I DO NOT trust them, and though Thomas works for them I see no sign that he is keeping them honest. In fact quite the contrary.

    The only good news is that they have allowed him to keep his old Web site up, and unadulterated. But it hasn't been updated since Thomas was hired by MalwareBytes either.

    I think that it would be extremely misguided to believe that because Thomas is/was honest that the MalwareBytes company is also, and/or that their product must be safe because they now employ him.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  13. #73
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    Rod's Avatar
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    Good read Patrick. I see cryptomining is the major threat in Australia. Our Australian government parliamentary records data base was just hacked.


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  14. #74
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    BTW: A friend just sent me the pdf version of this article that some might appreciate reading, and yes from the Malwarebytes site:
    2019 State of Malware report: Trojans and cryptominers dominate threat landscape
    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/malwar...eat-landscape/

    Since it seems to be part of the current thread discussion.
    Actually, that article seems to me to be mostly irrelevant and even misleading if you use a Macintosh.

    First, it quite clearly is about Windows computers, not Macs. I could see that immediately when it started off talking about "ransomware". Ransomware is a scorge on Windows, but not on the Macintosh. MalwareBytes makes just about all their money by selling a version of their software to Windows users, not Macintosh users.

    Second, you have to take any articles from companies that are trying to sell you anti-virus software, especially software with dubious anti-virus abilities, with a huge grain of salt. Pepsi isn't going to tell you that their product rots your teeth and makes you obese. They are going to tell you that it makes you fashionable and happy.

    Third, when you have a company, like MalwareBytes, that is basically a company that caters to Windows users, and only recently has started to sell a product for the Macintosh, you have to be concerned that they even understand that the Macintosh isn't like Windows.

    And, finally, there are a lot of shill sites on the Web. Even if you find a Web site that purports to tell you about "viruses" for the Macintosh, unless you know who created the site, and you know their track record for being believable, they may easily not be.

    I know that some of you will totally discount all of the above. All that I can do is offer the information and hope that some of you find it useful in making your own decisions.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  15. #75
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    Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy B. Singer View Post

    Third, when you have a company, like MalwareBytes, that is basically a company that caters to Windows users, and only recently has started to sell a product for the Macintosh, you have to be concerned that they even understand that the Macintosh isn't like Windows.
    Funny, I thought Malwarebytes was made and designed originally for the macOS platform and later bought by the current developers who extended its uses to Windows.



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