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Thread: Apple Card...

  1. #1
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Apple Card...
    The new Apple Card is like no other, at least on the surface. It certainly confused me when received the card initially. Here's what I have learned about how the card works on the iPhone...

    There's no reason to describe the details; there are websites that did that already. It's more about my experience with the card on my iPhone.

    My confusion came from understanding that the physical card number cannot be accessed, only the last four digit displayed:

    The card number displayed, a standard 16 digit CC#, is actually a virtual card number. Just like any other CC#, the break down is such:

    Attachment 30522

    1. The first two digit identifies the card as Master Card
    2. The next 4 digits indicate Goldman Sacks routing number
    3. The next nine digits show the Primary Account Number (PAN)
    4. The last digit is the check digit, verifying a valid card number


    The virtual card is valid for one year and can be used for online purchases, like any other CC. Requesting a new card number invalidates the previous number, effectively preventing other purchases. Doing so may, or may not prevent refunds applied from the merchant to the now invalid card number. Goldman Sack does retain all of the virtual CC #s, refund(s) should work even the the number is no longer valid. This does not impact the physical card number in any ways.

    Paying the balance is the easiest, if the personal checking account added to the Wallet; provided you trust Goldman Sacks with your checking account. I don't and as such, paying with personal check and/or banks's check can be tricky, since the physical card # isn't known. I am still testing, if using a virtual CC # can be used for payment. Judging by texting with Goldman Sacks, it should work, but remains to be seen.

    I've been using virtual CC #s for the last 15 - 20 years via BofA, where pretty much unlimited CC #s can be generated, specify the amount and expiration date, etc. Unfortunately, BofA discontinued this feature named "ShopSafe" at the end of September; my main reason for getting the Apple Card.

    It seems to me that Apple is missing the idea for the virtual credit card. Generating a virtual card number that's valid for a year also means, that it could be part of a data breach within the year and amount up to the credit limit charged. Apple really should change how the virtual credit card number works, if they serious about security.

    Especially, when the referenced link above also shows fraudulent charges for both physical and virtual charges. Seemingly, Apple Card makes it harder for customers to use the card without much of an actual security improvement. At least where Apple Pay is not accepted.

  2. #2
    Apple Card...
    Raz0rEdge's Avatar
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    That is not remotely how the card number works. It is not a virtual number or anything of that sort. The ONLY difference with the Apple Card is that the number isn't printed on the physical card. The number that you see in Card Information is your actual card number and expires some number of years after the issue, like every other credit card. If you find that the number was compromised, with other companies you ask for a new card and that will essentially kill the old number, a new number is generated and a new card mailed. With Apple Card, generating a new number will do the exact same thing.

    However, like other credit card companies, if you had used your Apple Card number for any recurring things, you should update it. If you were issued a refund to the old number, it will still process through into the new number.

    Discover offered something similar to ShopeSafe called Secure Number which was basically an alias of your real number, it was not limited by length or fixed limits. The only thing it allowed for is to easily discard it if you felt it was compromised. I've found Discover has significantly strong fraud protection, so it looks like the extra layer added by the Secure Number wasn't worth it for them to support.
    --
    Regards
    ...Ashwin


  3. #3
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    In my experience, that is how it works...

    When I initially set up my Apple Card on my iPhone; this is what it showed:

    Applel_Card.jpg

    The full card number and the other related data is for the virtual credit card. This can be changed anytime by the link of "Request New Card Number" link, this is the message overlaid to the above image:

    Request_Card.jpg

    The request is filled in 10 seconds.

    The physical card is not displaying the full CC number, just the last four digits. The physical card number is not changed, regardless how many virtual card number you request. The physical card number only changes, if the card is reported stolen.

    I do have the very first virtual card number, that had been set up by default, when I added the Apple Card to my Wallet on the iPhone. That is the number I had setup for online payment via my bank. The last four digits on the physical card does not match the very first virtual card number.

    Go ahead, look at your Apple Card in the your Wallet app. I am willing to bet you, that's how it works. If you don't have a Apple Card, stop arguing with me...

  4. #4
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Update...

    Looking at my first statement shows, that the actual account number is non-existent. Instead, it has been replaced by:

    1. Apple Card Customer
    2. Name,
    3. email address


    I've never liked using email address for accounts identification for obvious reasons. Especially, when it is the actual Apple ID...

    Paying via checks, using the original virtual credit card number works just fine, despite requesting new number three-four times already since then.

    Evidently, the Goldman Sacks maintains all the virtual credit card number generated by the "Apple Card Customers". In addition, it does process any payment to any of the virtual card numbers. Since refunds are basically payments to a card number, I don't see why it would not work.

    The more I dig in to the security of the Apple Card, the more I realize that it is nowhere near as secure as marketed.

    It is sort of strange that Apple/Goldman Sacks do not allow you access to the physical credit card number, just virtual credit card number(s). It's not like the card reader skimmer cannot actually steal the physical card number, like it does with any other credit cards. Except when the card reader cannot read the Apple Card at times, due to it thickness, material of the card, etc.

    In view, hiding the physical card number from "Apple Customers" may have something to do with the cost of sending out new physical cards. Card replacements always carry a cost for the bank, especially when the material is precious metal.

  5. #5
    Apple Card...
    chscag's Avatar
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    The Apple Card is certainly unusual in that it's made from metal and I guess for some folks it's a novelty. Personally, from what I have read about it and the managing by Goldman Sachs, I passed on getting one. Lots of comments by folks over in MacRumors about the Apple Card. Some swear by it and others swear at it.

  6. #6
    Apple Card...
    Rod's Avatar
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    And only available in the USA yes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Mac-Forums
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  7. #7
    Apple Card...
    chscag's Avatar
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    I believe for now, it's only available for US residents. Apple announced some time ago that it would not be available in Europe or the UK. I imagine the same holds true for Canada, Australia, and other areas.

  8. #8
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    The Apple Card is certainly unusual in that it's made from metal and I guess for some folks it's a novelty. Personally, from what I have read about it and the managing by Goldman Sachs, I passed on getting one. Lots of comments by folks over in MacRumors about the Apple Card. Some swear by it and others swear at it.
    The ones who swear at it had fraudulent charges, with not much help from Goldman Sacks.

    What makes me worried is the reports of fraudulent charges to the "most secure credit card". Especially in cases, where the card holder has never used his/her Apple Card. If you take these reports at face value...

    Where did the fraudsters get the Apple Card number? The choices are:

    1. Malware on card holder's iPhone
    2. The place actually making the physical Apple Card
    3. Apple
    4. Goldman Sacks


    My guess on this subject does not count, I don't trust Goldman Sacks. What's your take on it?

    The way I deal with the virtual Apple Card number for on-line purchase is simple. After a charge is made and service/merchandise received, I routinely generate a new virtual number; this invalidates the previous number and no additional charges accepted. In my view, this is the main purpose of the virtual card. Apple making the virtual card valid for a year defeats the the purpose of the virtual card.

    The balance of the Apple card maybe impacted by generating virtual card numbers. My Wallet shows this (the $5,000.00 credit limit is not the actual number):

    • Card Balance: $5.00
    • $4,800.00 Available
    • Payments: $195.00


    Despite the fact that payment had been made, it does not show up in the available balance. It could be related to the virtual card numbers generated, or the fact that this was an offline payment. In either case, if all of these show up in the Wallet, there should be $4,995.00 balance available and not $4,800.00. I'll chat with Goldman Sacks about this.

    The deeper I look in to the Apple Card behind the scene financial activity, the more I have a feeling that this is not even Beta version. Especially, when I take it in to account, that the chat session isn't much useful either. The person on the other end does not know much about the Apple Card most of the times.

  9. #9
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Update, based on my texting with Goldman Sacks...

    The payment will take time to show up in the available credit line, despite the fact that it's been received five days ego and posted in the Wallet app. This falls under the category, of "whatev..."

    The rep argued with me about the virtual card number. Initially, the rep stated that only limited virtual numbers are available and reason/justification required for generating a new number. After I argued/pushed him, this was the final answer:

    virtual number.jpg

    People with Apple Card should take notice. The virtual Apple Card number, valid for one year with the full credit limit, is a security feature. This number can be used for online purchases, in which case it might show up in the merchant's data breach. Don't be surprised, if fraudulent charges made to your Apple Card. You can prevent it by generating a virtual number.

  10. #10
    Apple Card...
    badshoehabit's Avatar
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    Apple have enough info on me without me ever taking a card! If it ever comes to the UK I won't be a taker.
    Sue

    If the shoe fits, buy it in every colour.

  11. #11
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    The more I learn about Apple Card...

    Within the Wallet app, the "Lock Card" function is available for the physical card number, where you can only see the last four digits:

    lock Phys AC.jpg

    The actual lock of the physical card number takes place in around five seconds. Unlocking the the card requires your Apple ID password, also takes about five seconds to reactivate the physical card number:

    Unlock Phys AC.jpg

    Locking the physical card number does not lock the virtual card number, that you can see in the Wallet app. This has been verified two ways.

    One is that I made a small online purchase with the virtual card number, at the time the physical card number had been locked. The order confirmation had been received and the Wallet app showed the online purchase amount as well.

    The other is, what else, texting with Goldman Sacks:

    AC vs VC.jpg

    This is the most asinine way to manage two different numbers associated with the account. Especially when the virtual card number is actually valid for five years and has the full credit limit available. Yes, one can generate a new virtual card number at the time the physical card number is locked. Why one would need two steps to disable the card numbers is beyond me.

    The chances are that Goldman Sacks uses a a virtual card number generator, based on the the fact, the it is generated within 5 - 10 seconds. Anybody, who has access to this algorithm could actually generate virtual card numbers. He and/or she would still need the name on the Apple Card. so, it does not seem that easy.

    My account had generated 6 - 8 virtual card numbers by now, but yet to receive a complaint from either Apple and/or Goldman Sacks. While this is just a small potato, when you compare it to the available "unlimited" virtual card numbers, makes me wonder if they ever will complain about it.

    The physical card number had not been tested at the time, when it had been locked. Based on what I've seen so far about Apple Card, it would be foolish to presume that it is actually locked.

    Is there some contact at Apple, where one can make suggestion? Apple should really re-evaluate how the Apple Card's numbers are handled in the background.

  12. #12
    I looked at their card and If I get it I know I will put myself into more debt, no more credit cards for me

  13. #13
    Apple Card...
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Apple Card is just a Master Card and as such, it is no different from any other credit cards.

    The physical card just as vulnerable to the skimmers as any other credit card. The virtual card number, used for online shopping, can be part of the data breach just as any other card number.

    The Apple Card's virtual card number valid for five years and has access to the full credit limit. As oppose to the real purpose of the virtual card number, offered as a service by some banks, that requested by the card holder for limited amount and by default two month expiration. The expiration date can be customized for paying monthly services and the card holder can have dozens of active virtual numbers.

    Apple did not invent the virtual card number, but on the other hand, it modified to be just as vulnerable as the physical card. There's no reason to have a virtual card number to have access to the full credit line that valid for five years.

    That's my view of the Apple Card's security and sticking to it...

  14. #14
    Apple Card...
    chscag's Avatar
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    It appears that Apple Card holders can soon order a new iPhone and make payments for two years without paying interest. And with a new iPhone SE 2 in the wind, it could be quite a bonus for Apple sales in 2020.

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