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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by toMACsh View Post
    It's my belief that a main reason these two words (you're and your) are mixed up in writing is because of a mistaken pronunciation when speaking. Many people (even singers, if you listen closely you'll hear it) pronounce both words like their "3rd twin" - yore. That's correct for your but not for you're, which is pronounced more like (the correct pronunciation of) sure or cure. A good online dictionary with audio will help sort it out.

    Thoughts on this, or other pronunciation, spelling errors?
    All homophones (words that sound the same but are spelled differently) are commonly misspelled: your/you're, its/it's, to/too, brake/break, hear/here, etc. Pronouncing "you're" the same as "your" is not not a mistake. If you look both words up in Merriam-Webster, they share three identical pronunciation variations.

    you're.JPG
    your.JPG
    -Jonathan
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  2. #17
    You're and Your, etc.
    pm-r's Avatar
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    Back to my main point: Doesn't anyone else notice people pronouncing "you're" like "your"? Or is it (is't?) just me?

    Yup, both variations are pronounced the same way up here and always have been.

    What was your point or do you pronounce each of them differently and expect others to do the same???

    Maybe it's a unique Wisconsin variable pronunciation thing?


    - Patrick
    ======

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    Yup, both variations are pronounced the same way up here and always have been.

    What was your point or do you pronounce each of them differently and expect others to do the same???

    Maybe it's a unique Wisconsin variable pronunciation thing?


    - Patrick
    ======
    I think pronouncing "you're" as \ yŁ-ər \ is akin to pronouncing "what" as \ hwət \ (ditto for "why," "where," etc.). It sounds too formal for normal conversation.
    -Jonathan
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  4. #19
    You're and Your, etc.
    toMACsh's Avatar
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    We'll I guess it's just me, and a couple of other web dictionaries with audio I've found that pronounce "you're" "sure" and "cure" the same way I do.

    Now, on to "problee" and "vedgtible"...
    "cumfterbul" "tempature" "meterologist" "imagrent" "uhvent" "tor" "uhmergency" "Los Vegas"
    It's nearly endless.

    Language changes; I get that. A word will get mispronounced so often by so many people that the dictionary publishers are forced to acknowledge that the perversion is now the commonly acceptable way to say it. To me, that's not a positive development; it's a corruption. Oh well! I'll keep saying things the way my ancestors did, or even my grade school teachers.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by toMACsh View Post
    Language changes; I get that. A word will get mispronounced so often by so many people that the dictionary publishers are forced to acknowledge that the perversion is now the commonly acceptable way to say it.
    So who gets to decide which pronunciation is "correct," thus making the rest "perversions"? Of course, none of them are perversions; it's just as you said--language changes. It's not a good or a bad thing; it's just reality. It's not determined by individual preference but by corporate usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by IWT View Post
    None always takes a singular verb because it is a contraction of “not one”.

    So none of us IS going to the game, is correct.
    Actually this is not quite true. "none" can be used with the singular or plural depending on the context. So in your above sentence, either can be acceptable. Look at my reply to toMACsh above for another example.

    none.JPG
    Last edited by usagora; 08-31-2019 at 11:59 AM.
    -Jonathan
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  6. #21
    You're and Your, etc.
    toMACsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagora View Post
    So who gets to decide which pronunciation is "correct," thus making the rest "perversions"? Of course, none of them are perversions; it's just as you said--language changes. It's not a good or a bad thing; it's just reality. It's not determined by individual preference but by corporate usage.
    The masses get to decide what becomes the acknowledged correct pronunciation. If a word that was pronounced one way for 500 years slowly morphs into something else, that is a perversion of the pronunciation considered to be the "right way" for half a millennium. After a century, let's say, of this alternate pronunciation, if it gains enough traction for it to be the overwhelmingly common pronunciation so much so that 90% of the major dictionaries list it as the #1 pronunciation, it has effectively been changed. What once was considered "wrong" by almost everyone now is "right". If I choose to pronounce a word the way it was originally said according to historic sources, I am not wrong, and the new, now accepted way is not wrong either. The newer way, now accepted by nearly everyone, cannot be considered a perversion any longer, but it started out as such.

  7. #22
    You're and Your, etc.
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    Ewer awl sew rung!!!
    I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .

  8. #23
    You're and Your, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMac View Post
    Ewer awl sew rung!!!

    +1!!
    But I'm not sure you have the correct tone or attitude there listning to yur accent.



    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #24
    You're and Your, etc.
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    The wonderful thing about English is that you can mangle it horribly and still be understood. Most English speakers are so used to dealing with different and/or bad English that we're (we are) very forgiving. If my Australian friend says, "Pahk the cah in the cah pahk" I know that he's trying to say, "Park the car in the parking lot." No problem. Leave out the "r's"; I can deal with it. (But, can you deal with that questionable semicolon?)

    Try that in Thailand where the native speakers seem completely unable to deal with poorly spoken Thai. Make one tiny tone error in a sentence and they're (they are) baffled.

    Although English is a horribly complex and inconsistent language in so many ways, I contend that it easy fairly easy to learn because beginners are encouraged to keep trying by our ability to parse their mistake-laden (is that hyphen OK?) early utterances. We can deal with bad pronunciation, unconjugated verbs, homophonic confusion and almost every other error you throw at us. We've heard it all, both from native speakers and early learners. We remain unfazed.

  10. #25
    You're and Your, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratsima View Post
    If my Australian friend says, "Pahk the cah in the cah pahk" I know that he's trying to say, "Park the car in the parking lot." No problem. Leave out the "r's"; I can deal with it. (But, can you deal with that questionable semicolon?)
    Why is it questionable? You have two closely related complete sentences there. That's what a semicolon is for.


    Although English is a horribly complex and inconsistent language in so many ways, I contend that it easy fairly easy to learn because beginners are encouraged to keep trying by our ability to parse their mistake-laden (is that hyphen OK?) early utterances.
    That usage is good enough. The insertion of "early" between the hyphenated modifier and the noun is problematic, but not prohibitive.

  11. #26
    You're and Your, etc.
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    How heartwarming to see that pedantry is not dead.

  12. #27
    You're and Your, etc.
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    Correct punctuation, grammar and spelling defines meaning. Get it wrong and understanding is undermined. An oft quoted example is 'Knowing your s..t' versus 'Knowing you're s...t'.

    As head of media and marketing for 20 years for a large public sector organisation, I was forced to devise a crib sheet - 'Its, it's and other apostrophes' - for my press officers, most of whom hadn't a clue. Read the Lynne Truss book 'Eats shoots and leaves' for elaboration.

    Basically the difference bewteen its, it's, yours, you're, their, etc, is possessive (ownership) and abbreviation. If you ask yourself that question, it's easy to get the right spelling.


    * I hung onto them...
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    Sue

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  13. #28
    You're and Your, etc.
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    Sue,
    You nailed the main issue, and why “Grammar Nazis” annoy me. The rules are about clarity of understanding in communication. Where the meaning of a message is unambiguous, whether or not it obeyed the rules is moot.

    Writing is one of my passions (both prose and poetry), and so I chose words and structure for how they flow off the tongue as much as for any other reason. If my choice fits the rules, great!

    If not, the meaning is clear, and the flow is what I desire, then also great!

    I like your crib sheet BTW
    I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by badshoehabit View Post
    Correct punctuation, grammar and spelling defines meaning. Get it wrong and understanding is undermined.
    For me, it's more of a matter of attention to detail. If I see a plumber's work vehicle that says "Its time to calls an plummer;" on the side, my understanding is not undermined in the least, but the errors indicate to me a lack of care and attention to detail, and thus I wouldn't call them to have any work done (same goes for crooked decals). Obviously that's an extreme example. Most real-life examples would be far more tame.

    You may have seen something like this before, which shows how even atrocious spelling doesn't undermine comprehension:

    mixed-up-letters2_web_600.jpg
    -Jonathan
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  15. #30
    Pretty amazing - I could read that as fast as if all the spelling was totally correct.

    On the other hand, I can look at a complete page written correctly except for one word, and somehow my brain directs my eyes immediately to the misspelled word.

    I guess software needs a lot more development for it to match the brain's capability in that regard.

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