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  1. #16
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    The fact Apple don't provide the full version shows that they simple don't want anyone using it/and or old hardware.
    Nope, you have the full version, so Apple does provide it. And had you upgraded to HS instead of wiping out the drive, you would have had no problems with DiskmakerX. But by wiping out the drive, leaving it unbootable, you put yourself in the position of having to find a way to boot it from something external to do the installation. And that means DiskmakerX or something similar.

    All that said, if you used DiskmakerX to create a bootable drive, what you do now is attach that to the Mac, hold down option and boot it while holding down Option. (EDIT: Keep holding option until you see options on the screen.) Eventually you should see on the screen all bootable drives, which in your case would be the one USB drive. Select that one to boot, then run the installation from there, installing to the Internal drive. From your screenshots, you are not doing that boot step, but trying to run the initiation program from some other machine. That icon and name is for the drive, and needs to be the boot drive, not mounted on any other system.
    Jake

  2. #17
    MBAmtloin
    Guest
    does your macbook pro work? I was concerned that is did not
    if so, forget about high sierra, apple is getting closed minded on use of their older OSXs.
    I might have to jump to el capitian next week, which i fear now.
    im running osx 10.8.5 now and using the internet and everything is good, slow but good.

    but i understand your frustration towards apple, i also had problems and felt apple does not care about loyalty and customer support so I purchased a Dell XPS last march and love the laptop and windows experience much than I thought.

    I am positive someone here will have better instruction on how to upgrade, just be patient
    which someone did, jake's answer is the best you will get and very precise!

  3. #18
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    does your macbook pro work? I was concerned that is did not
    if so, forget about high sierra, apple is getting closed minded on use of their older OSXs.
    Because he wiped the drive at the start of the process (see post #1), his Mac won't boot.

    And there is no reason to "forget about" HS, he has the installer. He just needs to boot from the installer drive he says he has made, instead of trying to run the installer from wherever his images come from, and let the process complete. DiskmakerX builds some hidden folders on the boot drive that don't appear when you mount the drive on a booted machine, but which work when you are booted from it. That's why I told him to boot from the USB he created and from there do the installation.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "apple is getting closed minded on use of their older OSXs." Apple has always removed the installer for older systems when they release a new version. You could only get the older system if you had already downloaded the installer previously so that it showed up on your "purchased" list. Now they did away with that access, but the older versions are still able to be downloaded and installed on any system on which they will run. I suspect the removal from the purchased list was to avoid the complications of a novice user moving to APFS in Mojave or the new two volume structure in Catalina and then trying to go back. That can be done, but it's not easy because of the changes in APFS and Catalina. So they cut down on the calls to support for the problems that change can create by making it harder for novices to even try, figuring that anybody who can figure it out has enough technical chops to pull it off.
    Jake

  4. #19
    MBAmtloin
    Guest
    macinWin: thanks for your reply, the people like you seem nice and have a deep devotion towards their computers and other apple products and will take the time out to help those who are lost and confused, which is excellent!

    to answer your question,
    the older OSXs were always available, now they are not, even when customer paid for the OSX like lion or mt lion.
    last weekend i tried upgrading to High Sierra that is stored on my external HD and then El Captain, the full version which also did not work.
    Lucky for me i am not a novice and somehow knows how to work around these apple road blocks that were clear paths years ago, but could not last weekend.

    seems to me that all this thinking and restricting what their users need is not computing, that is control.
    that is why i am here, trying to help those apple will not anymore
    Last edited by MBAmtloin; 01-05-2020 at 10:15 AM.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Because he wiped the drive at the start of the process (see post #1), his Mac won't boot.

    And there is no reason to "forget about" HS, he has the installer. He just needs to boot from the installer drive he says he has made, instead of trying to run the installer from wherever his images come from, and let the process complete. DiskmakerX builds some hidden folders on the boot drive that don't appear when you mount the drive on a booted machine, but which work when you are booted from it. That's why I told him to boot from the USB he created and from there do the installation.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "apple is getting closed minded on use of their older OSXs." Apple has always removed the installer for older systems when they release a new version. You could only get the older system if you had already downloaded the installer previously so that it showed up on your "purchased" list. Now they did away with that access, but the older versions are still able to be downloaded and installed on any system on which they will run. I suspect the removal from the purchased list was to avoid the complications of a novice user moving to APFS in Mojave or the new two volume structure in Catalina and then trying to go back. That can be done, but it's not easy because of the changes in APFS and Catalina. So they cut down on the calls to support for the problems that change can create by making it harder for novices to even try, figuring that anybody who can figure it out has enough technical chops to pull it off.
    You are incorrect. I did not wipe my drive until after my Mac wouldn't boot.

    I was running a old version of MacOS (from 2011). I then applied any available updates for it from the app store and then I downloaded a newer OS and the update went well. Problems started only after I then went to apply the updates from the app store for the new OS. During the update process it kept freezing and from that point the only way I could boot the laptop was via recovery mode. Only at that point did I wipe the drive and tried to install the OS via recovery mode but it fails to work. This may be because just before I installed a newer MacOS and Apple wouldn't let me download it for that reason. But others have reported this same issue and why doesn't Apply allow me to re-install the default OS that came with my laptop via recovery mode? This is the major issue. My laptop is from 2011, I should at least be able to install the OS from that time via recovery mode but even that isn't allowed by Apple. I understand the business perspective and that with enough knowledge anything is possible but it should not be this hard and involved just to re-install a working OS from a 2011 Macbook pro.

    So the DiskMaker X 7 for High Sierra did work in the end to create the USB drive with the Install macOS High Sierra files. It wouldn't show anything was happening but I left the USB in and after some time it showed a popup notification "80% complete". So I left it and after a new popup for every 5% it did complete.

    From what i can see DiskMaker do not provide information on what to do once the drive is created.

    I checked some guides online and found:

    How To Make A Bootable macOS Installer On An External Drive - Macworld UK

    Using terminal and following their command guide it isn't working for me:

    sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ High\ Sierra.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume

    I replaced Myvolume with the name of my USB drive.

    It showed sudo as not a valid command. I know this is because recovery mode has less available commands than normal. Also the path is not valid, I think because the files do not exist within /applications but instead on the drive. Does anyone know which command I can use to run the installer from the drive?

    My plan with this Macbook was to update to a newer OS and then to Sierra which is the latest OS my 2011 Mac will support.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by giantjack; 01-05-2020 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #21
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    From what i can see DiskMaker do not provide information on what to do once the drive is created.
    I gave the next step. I'll repeat it here.

    Put the USB drive that Diskmakerx made in the 2011 Mac. Holding down the Option key, power on the Mac. Keep holding Option until you see on the screen the drives available to boot. Select the USB drive and let it boot. Once booted, you will have the option to install the OS. You can also format the drive if you want to before you do the installation. I think your 2011 will run High Sierra, but if you want just Sierra, you can get that from Apple as well. Here is Apple's instructions on that: How to create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support
    Jake

  7. #22
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBAmtloin View Post
    CLIP...
    to answer your question,
    the older OSXs were always available, now they are not, even when customer paid for the OSX like lion or mt lion.
    last weekend i tried upgrading to High Sierra that is storeg on my external HD and then El Captain, the full version which also did not work.
    There is a difference between "not available" and "not signed." The version you have stored is not signed because you downloaded under one security certificate and that certificate has now expired. It is available at Apple for new download and will come with new certification so it should install. So it is incorrect to say that they are not available.

    Lucky for me i am not a novice and somehow knows how to work around these apple road blocks that were clear paths years ago, but could not last weekend.

    seems to me that all this thinking and restricting what their users need is not computing, that is control.
    that is why i am here, trying to help those apple will not anymore.
    Certificates expire all the time. It is a security aspect. I'm OK with that and am willing to go back to download a new copy with good security certificates. Others see it as a road block instead of a security measure. To me that's a bit like saying having a login password is a road block to using my Mac. The certification is an assurance that the installer is valid.

    But hey, that's why there are options in this world. Folks differ. And that's ok. I just don't like it when folks try to blame Apple for having nefarious intentions when they do things. That kind of move makes no business sense. Apple doesn't sell the OS anymore, they give it away, so there is no financial motivation to block older versions of the OS. The last version that cost anything was Mountain Lion, as I recall. And all versions back to that one are available online. You can even go back to Lion if that was the original version your system came with and you use Internet Recovery. The fact that sometimes the server with the installer is busy and not immediately available is unfortunate, but given that the OS is now 9 years old, it's probably stored on a server or set of servers that have lower priority than the ones holding more recent versions because Apple thinks it's more likely that someone will be looking for Mojave than Lion. Not an unreasonable assumption.

    It does make financial sense to keep tech support costs down, so making it a bit harder for a novice to muck up their Mac is good business sense. I think that is why Catalina now has even more security over system files by putting them on a separate volume from the user data.
    Jake

  8. #23
    MBAmtloin
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    MacInWin
    thanks for clarifying this certificate aspect of OSX.
    this means the edition of el capitan is useless.
    I am so happy for time machine, mountain lion still functional and those extra SSD drives.

  9. #24
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    @MBAmtloin, the certificates are not an inherent part of OS X or macOS. Rather, the certificates are from independent third party certifiers that issue certificates to verify who issued the software, or the website. Here is a quick definition: What is a Security Certificate? - Definition from Techopedia

    When the installer starts up, it goes to the certificate issuer to see if the certificate is valid. If not, the installer won't run. Apple could have elected to have the user be able to override the invalid certificate, but they chose the more secure method of blocking execution. So if you download a fresh version of ElCap from the App Store today, the certificate will be current and valid, at least for a while. Certificates can last a long time, and I have read elsewhere that current certificates from Apple are good until 2029.

    I'm not one of those who hold back from updates. ML was good, but the security of later versions was significantly increased. I guess it's a bit like when I occasionally see old cars and think, "Wow, what a machine that was! Love to have one." But then reality sets in when I get in my new(er) car with GPS, stereo, smoother transmission, fewer maintenance issues, better gas mileage, more comfortable ride, etc, etc, etc, and the attraction of that older car diminishes. Romance over old stuff is OK, but for day-to-day, give me modern every time.
    Jake

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    I gave the next step. I'll repeat it here.

    Put the USB drive that Diskmakerx made in the 2011 Mac. Holding down the Option key, power on the Mac. Keep holding Option until you see on the screen the drives available to boot. Select the USB drive and let it boot. Once booted, you will have the option to install the OS. You can also format the drive if you want to before you do the installation. I think your 2011 will run High Sierra, but if you want just Sierra, you can get that from Apple as well. Here is Apple's instructions on that: How to create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support
    Many thanks for your patience during this. I apologise for coming across a certain way at times, it has been a tiresome process and at stages not clear how to proceed. I appreciate yours and MBAmtloin's assistance.

    I managed to get High Sierra installed and I'm currently installing the update from the app store. It's got 40 minutes remaining so I will leave it over night. It seems to run well, the only annoying thing is the update process screens sometimes the bar won't make progress or it'll save 2 minutes left when it takes 30 minutes to get to the next screen but the progress bar will stop at 20% or so. Perhaps a bug or not but as long as it's working I am fine. My 2011 Mac does need a new battery and the trackpad replaced which I will get done. I have replaced a battery in the past but not a trackpad.

    It's funny because my 2011 Mac is now running a newer OS than my current laptop (mid 2015). The reason why i went through this whole process is because my mid 2015 which I use for work (front end web developer ironically given my lack of overall computer knowledge) no longer supports Photoshop due to the OS (Yosemite). I'm going to be updating to Catalina tomorrow but before doing so I wanted to restore my old Mac as a extra fail safe for storing my data. So come the update tomorrow I will have all of my data stored on a backup drive and my 2011 Mac.

  11. #26
    Cannot boot 2011 Macbook pro
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Glad you got it running again. On the Catalina upgrade, if you have a backup, make one just before you start the process. it will take some time as it will be completely reformatting your internal drive to use AFPS and have two volumes in it, one for system files and one for user data. Lots of ways it COULD go sideways, so a backup will be essential. However, I can report that my own upgrade to Catalina went pretty well. You can ignore the progress bars and time to go as far as being accurate, but they will show that progress is being made.
    Jake

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Glad you got it running again. On the Catalina upgrade, if you have a backup, make one just before you start the process. it will take some time as it will be completely reformatting your internal drive to use AFPS and have two volumes in it, one for system files and one for user data. Lots of ways it COULD go sideways, so a backup will be essential. However, I can report that my own upgrade to Catalina went pretty well. You can ignore the progress bars and time to go as far as being accurate, but they will show that progress is being made.
    Thanks for the advice, I will be sure to take another backup just before

    Glad to hear the progress bars are nothing to be concered about.

  13. #28
    Just a quick update.

    I updated to Catalina on my main Macbook, everything went smoothly and I am genuinely impressed with this new OS. It's running very well on my 2015 Macbook pro.

    I really like how they handled incompatible software (thankfully only 1 for me). Also moving certain files to a recovery directory is genius. In my case some fonts which I can now recover to the new location. I am also very happy to see iTunes replaced with the separate apps. I was not a fan of iTunes especially when I had a iPhone and had to use iTunes for syncing. I noticed this is now done via the Finder which I think is a great change.

    In a few minutes I'm going to order a new trackpad and battery for my old Macbook. I actually realised yesterday it's a 2010 not 11 but it still supports High Seiera.

    So all in all thanks to you both for your assistance with this process!

  14. #29
    MBAmtloin
    Guest
    Im glad everything worked out, MacinWin knows apple OSX and explains these processes incredibly in a very understandable manner.
    personally im pondering upping my macbook air to el captain this week, i can always go back on time machine.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MBAmtloin View Post
    Im glad everything worked out, MacinWin knows apple OSX and explains these processes incredibly in a very understandable manner.
    personally im pondering upping my macbook air to el captain this week, i can always go back on time machine.
    He sure does.

    Sounds like a good plan. It's a huge update for me going from Yosemite to Catalina. I'm sure it'll be great for you too if you are able to update.

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