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  1. #16
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
    pm-r's Avatar
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    Now if it were me, I'd find a way to hide the name of the boot device and just show the merged Volume, or even better, since I cannot write to the System Volume, just hide it and only let me see the Data Volume. I wonder if there is a new configuration setting in Finder to do exactly that? I may have to do some exploring...

    Now that Jake, would be so logical and make so much sense, but you know it just would not happen.

    Apple has been hiding most of a user's folders and data for years with all their latest previous Mac OS versions, well leaving all the system in libraries fully exposed, completely illogical to me. But then again, I'm not Apple and I certainly don't think the same way they do with what they do with what they do.

    How's that for a horrible redundant grammar line...???

    PS: What folders are showing as visible in a Catalina Users usernamme folder??? Is the username Desktop folder and others still made indivisible to the user???



    - Patrick
    ======

  2. #17
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Apple has been hiding most of a user's folders and data for years with all their latest previous Mac OS versions, well leaving all the system in libraries fully exposed, completely illogical to me.
    I will slightly disagree with that statement. Apple hid the ~/Library, not "most of a user's folder and data." In fact, I could say that NONE of my data is hidden, just some semi-system files that happen to be stored in ~/Library. What is in the System folders at the root of the drive is visible, but protected by SIP, unless the user disables it, so the term "fully exposed" is not quite accurate, either.
    Jake

  3. #18
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    For this:
    PS: What folders are showing as visible in a Catalina Users usernamme folder??? Is the username Desktop folder and others still made indivisible to the user???
    what shows in Users is the name of all users, and under the username, all of the folders (less Library), but the individual user can only see the details of their own folder and Shared, at least on the test system I have. I don't know what you mean by, "Is the username Desktop folder and others still made indivisible to the user?" Assuming you meant "invisible" those folders are not invisible and have not been so ever, as far as I can remember. Only ~/Library is hidden in more recent versions of the OS.
    Jake

  4. #19
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    I don't know what you mean by, "Is the username Desktop folder and others still made indivisible to the user?" Assuming you meant "invisible" those folders are not invisible and have not been so ever, as far as I can remember. Only ~/Library is hidden in more recent versions of the OS.

    I was referring to the normally invisible folders, at least since Sierra OS I believe, are those such as Desktop, Documents etc in the username folder that can be made visible when pressing the command+shift+period keys.


    - Patrick
    ======

  5. #20
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Nope. Those have been visible, and still are, without any strange keys. Where are you getting this information? I've never heard of it before. The only normally invisible folder was Library, that was hidden, I think in High Sierra for the first time. But that could be wrong, as I don't really remember when Library was hidden for the first time. But the other have never been hidden, ever.
    Jake

  6. #21
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Patrick, here is, as an example, my Home folder directory:
    Screen Shot 2019-10-18 at 7.04.41 PM.png
    I did make Library visible but the rest are visible as default. Command-Shift-"." unhides system files like .Trash, etc, but nothing that I would call a "user" file or data.

    BTW, I looked it up and Library was first hidden in Lion. But a simple Terminal command makes it permanently visible:

    Code:
    chflags nohidden ~/Library
    Note that only unhides ~/Library
    Jake

  7. #22
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Here is that same home directory after Command-shift-.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-18 at 7.13.17 PM.png

    As you can see, what is hidden are not really "user data" type files.
    Jake

  8. #23
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    I think Ian and Jake in post #2 explained the phenomenon very well. This is exactly how my HD displays in Disk Utility, one Volume is Macintosh HD and another that is Macintosh HD - Data.
    Pine Man, in a finder window I only see one entry, the combined volume Macintosh HD. I know this is a silly question but did you have your CCC backup plugged in at the time because if you did you would see two entries for Macintosh HD one being the volume on your backup.

    I think this is exactly how the HD should look. NOTE; the size of the Macintosh HD is only about the size one would expect for the OS.
    The Macintosh HD - Data volume is 336 Gb.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-19 at 7.36.39 am.png
    Last edited by Rod; 10-18-2019 at 08:01 PM.
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  9. #24
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    Nope. Those have been visible, and still are, without any strange keys. Where are you getting this information? I've never heard of it before.

    I came across this a day ago helping a friends friend, a new switcher fellow with his week old MacBook Pro, basically to get things set up for him so he could work with it with a quick set up for stuff he needed.

    His "new" 2017 MBPro had Mojave installed and it was all up to date.

    To make some of his stuff easier to access I thought it would be nice to set things up so that he would have easier access to some of his data. When I went to his "Home" username folder I was rather surprised to see only about four folders and several such as: Desktop, Documents, Downloads folders were not showing.

    I thought that was rather odd and said I would look into it has he had to leave for a meeting.

    A few Google searches later, I came to some sites that describe the situation and provided methods to show these new Invisibles.

    I believe one of them was:
    How-To Show Your User Library in macOS Mojave, High Sierra and Sierra - AppleToolBox

    And in some of the screenshots there, some folders such as the Desktop folder was not showing, but apparently will when using the show invisible keyboard shortcut.

    I also checked with a friend of mine by phone and he doesn't have the Desktop folder showing in his username folder either and he is using Sierra so I assumed it was sort of normal.

    I hope that all this makes a bit of sense, but it's sure confusing to me.

    Sorry if this seems to be going a bit off topic, but maybe the admins could change it if that's the case.



    - Patrick
    ======

  10. #25
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Patrick, that article was about ~/Library and incorrectly made the claim that the chflags Terminal command no longer worked. I just used it in Mojave to get the screenshots I posted, so it definitely works there, and did in every OS from Lion to Mojave. And I have no idea what your friend did to hide the Desktop folder, or any other folder, but the default in every system from Lion to Mojave was that they are visible to the user. Period. Given that the author of that article you linked was dead wrong on the command not working, I don't trust much else in that article, either. I think what may be confusing is that the home folder (the one with the login name) no longer defaults to the sidebar. You have to select it in Finder/Preferences/Sidebar. What defaults to the Sidebar is the content of the Documents folder for the user. The Desktop and Downloads are not in the Documents folder, but in the home folder. Technically, the home folder isn't hidden, you can see it in Finder if you open MacitoshHD/Users/username, and if you look in it from there, all is visible. And all becomes visible in Finder if you simply go there. Putting it in the Sidebar makes that easy to do. I think what some people, including the author of that article, confuse is "hidden" and "shown." The default is that only ~/Library is hidden. But the Home folder is, by default, not shown, but can be shown with a simple option toggle that doesn't require any Terminal commands.

    Does that make any sense?
    Jake

  11. #26
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    One more thing, Patrick, about maybe defaults changing. In Post #13 I put two images from a virgin installation of Catalina. One was of the Finder view of MacintoshHD as it exists on that desktop. In that image you can see my home folder as well as Desktop, Documents, and Downloads in the Sidebar. That was default as that is a totally new installation with basically nothing in it at this point. So Catalina defaults to all of those folders you listed, except, of course, Library being both visible and in the sidebar. You can control what appears in Finder with the preferences:
    Screen Shot 2019-10-18 at 8.51.04 PM.png
    Jake

  12. #27
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    It was my understanding and experience that displaying Desktop, Downloads etc in the Finder Tool Bar are just a matter of selecting (ticking) them in Finder Preferences.
    If you need to locate it, it will be found here; /Users/my name/Desktop
    If as has happened one accidentally drags the folder off the sidebar you will find it unticked in Finder Preferences. Ticking it again will put it back (at the bottom of the list).
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  13. #28
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    I have now completed a full CCC backup of my MBP running Catalina using CCC 5.
    The first thing it did was convert my USB EHD to APFS (thus erasing the HDD) which it notifies you before beginning the process.
    As can be seen below there are four volumes shown in the sidebar. Macintosh HD - Data, Macintosh HD, CCC Backup - Data and CCC Backup.
    All as it should be. I then booted from the CCC clone successfully and waited through the "Verification" process. This was new to me, it essentially verified each of my Startup Items and all third party apps whose menus appear on the Menu Bar (background apps) iStat menus, Fantastical, Mac's Fan Control even Carbon Copy Cloner. Once everything seemed complete I rebooted back to Macintosh HD.
    Below is how CCC looks now.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-19 at 10.52.46 am.png
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  14. #29
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    On ejecting the CCC backup I am presented with this dialogue box.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-19 at 11.58.34 am.png

    This confirms what I thought when looking at the size of the volumes, they are the same size indicating to me that they are essentially two volumes in one sharing the same volume.
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  15. #30
    Catalina & Carbon Copy Cloner
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    Out of interest, Rod; which did you choose?

    Ian
    Ian

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