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  1. #31
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    That doesn't work for TM or CCC.
    Wow, that's a bug! Nowhere does anything from Apple say to delete these snapshots manually. In my system, the snapshots are deleted when it makes a backup, although it then creates a new one just before TME turns it off again. For example, here are the only snapshots on my system:
    Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 11.32.16 PM.png
    If TM doesn't automatically delete snapshots when it makes a backup, then I would expect to see hundreds, literally hundreds, of snapshots as I have not deleted a snapshot in over 10 months. That would be 600 snapshots or more. But I have two. So some system is deleting them.
    Last edited by MacInWin; 10-24-2019 at 11:52 PM.
    Jake

  2. #32
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Notice that @Ratsima has both CCC and Time Machine snapshots taking up space. With the number of snapshots he's showing, I'm betting the space it's taking up is substantial.
    Although he has a lot of backups, they are all within 24 hours, so it may be just that he has not connected the TM drive in the last day. Those snapshots *should* be relatively small, unless he's editing video or massive files. My understanding is that snapshots just capture the changed files, waiting for a backup to occur so they can be integrated into the TM backup data from before.
    Jake

  3. #33
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."

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    My TM drive is always connected and mounted. I do not edit videos very often (a few times per year) nor do I edit other massive files. The TM drive is 1TB and is always almost full.

    Thinning the snapshots might be worthwhile in the short term. But, they will just get recreated as time goes by. Since my boot drive has a lots of free space, TM just goes ahead and fills it up with snapshots. ("Local snapshots as space permits") That's what it's supposed to do. I have to admit, though, some surprise at how many there are and how much space they take up.

    I first saw this when I booted into recovery mode last weekend and ran First Aid. After checking the disk, it checked each snapshot individually. I think at that time there were 17 of them. It took a long time. No problems found.

    I really doubt that the snapshots are what is preventing the App Store from updating certain apps. (Other apps, like Xcode, updated automatically with no problem at all.)

  4. #34
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."

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    The thinlocalsnapshots doesn't delete snapshots, but it tries to reduce their size by eliminating duplicate files (I think). But, when I tried it, it really didn't do much. As you can see, when it thins it doesn't reduce the number of snapshots:

    Code:
    MrMuscle: mnewman$ tmutil listlocalsnapshots / | grep TimeMachine -c
    22
    MrMuscle: mnewman$ tmutil thinlocalsnapshots / 21474836480
    Thinned local snapshots:
    MrMuscle: mnewman$ tmutil listlocalsnapshots / | grep TimeMachine -c
    22
    MrMuscle: mnewman$ df -h /
    Filesystem     Size   Used  Avail Capacity iused               ifree %iused  Mounted on
    /dev/disk1s1  466Gi  300Gi  155Gi    66% 2781078 9223372036851994729    0%   /
    Earlier today:

    Code:
    Filesystem     Size   Used  Avail Capacity iused               ifree %iused  Mounted on
    /dev/disk1s1  466Gi  295Gi  160Gi    65% 2787237 9223372036851988570    0%   /
    I didn't make this urgent, so maybe more thinning will take place as time goes by.

  5. #35
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."

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    Nope. Three hours later there's actually about the same free space:

    Code:
    MrMuscle:/ mnewman$ df -h /
    Filesystem     Size   Used  Avail Capacity iused               ifree %iused  Mounted on
    /dev/disk1s1  466Gi  299Gi  156Gi    66% 2781426 9223372036851994381    0%   /

  6. #36
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    ferrarr's Avatar
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    Iím sorry, I havenít read through the entire thread, but did you try either NVRAM or SMC reset?

    Another thing I wanted to ask is, are you running Mojave or Catalina?


    Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.
    PS: When there is an accident or error, is the tool to blame or is the fool to blame?

  7. #37
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."

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    I’m running Mojave. I did do both NVRAM and SMC reset at the same time I did the restart in recovery mode. That was last weekend.

  8. #38
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    IWT's Avatar
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    Just a FWIW comment.

    I’m on Mojave. I turned off Automatic TM backups and do these manually about three or four times a day.

    What’s more, I have two TM Drives so TM backups up to each alternately. Using Terminal, I find that I never have more than two snapshots, one for each TM Drive. Each time I do a backup, it erases the previous snapshot and replaces it with a new one.

    As regards CCC, I have snapshots turned off, which usually means that there is just one which gets replaced at each backup.

    I notice that the above applies to my older iMac running High Sierra.

    Ian
    Ian

  9. #39
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    @Jake:

    That doesn't work for TM or CCC.

    Notice that @Ratsima has both CCC and Time Machine snapshots taking up space. With the number of snapshots he's showing, I'm betting the space it's taking up is substantial.

    This will purge them for sure:

    tmutil listlocalsnapshotdates / |grep 20|while read f; do tmutil deletelocalsnapshots $f; done

    or

    sudo tmutil thinLocalSnapshots / 10000000000 4
    Given what Charlie said, that TM does not delete snapshots after making a backup, does anybody know HOW they get deleted by the system automatically? I've never run those terminal commands, yet I only have two snapshots, one at each time I have TM automated to be turned on, make a backup, and then turn off again. I never see more than the two snapshots, rolling through the day. So *something* is deleting them, and it's not me.

    I thought snapshots were temporary backup files created by TM when the backup disk is not attached and that once the backup gets made, the snapshots are not longer needed and are therefore deleted. But this article: About Time Machine local snapshots - Apple Support seems to say that the snapshots are deleted after 24 hours, backed up or not. That activity would be consistent with what I see, that is, two snapshots in the previous 24 hours. So is that it? Just a clock? That would mean that if you don't have the TM drive attached while traveling, for example, for a week, you have NO backups of the six days of the start of the week when you return home to the TM drive.

    Seems to me that would be something pretty important to know in a business environment. Just sayin'.
    Jake

  10. #40
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    Raz0rEdge's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing the other issues, but the XCode update error persisted when I tried a few times. I finally did some searches and it seems that's a known issue with Xcode updating from 11.0 to 11.1 on Catalina. So the "fix" is to delete the existing installation of Xcode 11.0 and install 11.1 from scratch.
    --
    Regards
    ...Ashwin


  11. #41
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    chscag's Avatar
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    What Jake mentioned above about Time Machine snapshots not taking up too much space is somewhat true since TM operates differently than other backup programs. However, CCC snapshots are large and will quickly accumulate over time if you leave them turned on.

    To answer the other question about the Time Machine snapshots taking up space - note what Mike wrote above:
    ("Local snapshots as space permits")
    I don't know off hand how Time Machine determines "space permits"?

    I do not leave Time Machine running and remove the drive when it's not in use. I realize that for some that might cause one to forget to make backups. Probably not recommended for most folks.

  12. #42
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Charlie, in the article I linked, Apple says this:
    Your Mac counts the space used by snapshots as available storage. Even so, Time Machine stores snapshots only on disks that have plenty of free space, and it automatically deletes snapshots as they age or as space is needed for other things.
    Now, how well that works may be subject to some discussion.
    Jake

  13. #43
    App Store: "There is not enough disk space available to install the product."
    chscag's Avatar
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    That makes more sense. (the article you quoted) It would be reasonable to assume that the system "sees" the Time Machine snapshots as purgeable space and counts it as space available. I don't remember off hand if I calculated the remaining space both with snapshots left intact or when they were removed. I'll have to experiment to see how well that works.

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