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  1. #16
    Reinstalling/fixing corrupted OS
    pm-r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestone33 View Post
    It's not nonsensical. I was talking about trying to do a COMPLETE restore.

    Then maybe you might care to explain your original paragraph and reasoning a bit better and your logic for your statement, and do so before doing any further later post-editing.

    Your statement doesn't make sense to me and not quite logical, but then again, maybe I just misunderstood something and user121212 the OP understands completely.



    - Patrick
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  2. #17
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    Then maybe you might care to explain your original paragraph and reasoning a bit better and your logic for your statement, and do so before doing any further later post-editing.

    Your statement doesn't make sense to me and not quite logical, but then again, maybe I just misunderstood something and user121212 the OP understands completely.



    - Patrick
    ======
    You first need to point out which original paragraph you are talking about. The post I made just prior to your nonsensical-stated one is clear enough.

    If one tries to do a COMPLETE RESTORE of a drive/partition that is taking the same or less amount of space than the destination drive/partition, but the overall size of that drive/partition is larger then the size of the destination drive/partition, one will get an error. On the other hand, when doing a migration of data from such a larger overall sized drive/partition will work fine.

    Maybe (and hopefully) this is clear enough for you:

    macos - OSX: How can I clone a larger hard drive to a smaller one? - Super User
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  3. #18
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Maybe (and hopefully) this is clear enough for you:
    macos - OSX: How can I clone a larger hard drive to a smaller one? - Super User
    That article is dealing with two completely separate issues:
    • I want is an exact clone, byte-for-byte.
    • I'm using FileVault on the old drive.


    BTW: One could always just use the Finder to select all the needed existing files and folders and then move from the larger to the smaller Drive as long as that drive has enough spare room to hold them all.



    - Patrick
    ======

  4. #19
    Reinstalling/fixing corrupted OS
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    To try to calm things down a bit, there are at least two types of "clone" processes. One is a block-for-block or byte-for-byte clone and the other is a file by file clone. You can definitely clone a bigger drive to a smaller drive as long as the data on the larger drive is smaller than the smaller drive in a file by file clone. That's not a byte-for-byte clone, which goes even further and requires that the two drives absolutely match in geometry (platters, heads, sectors, etc). But for a file-by-file clone, as long as it fits on the smaller drive, it works perfectly. I've done it many times before.

    As for the unbootability of the internal drive, could it be that because the drive is so full that the OS is unable to establish scratch and cache space on it, hence it won't boot. If that is the case and if you get a new drive and CCC, do a full clone to a larger drive, including the system files following the directions at the CCC website, it may well boot from the external because it has the room. Then you can boot from it, then go back to the internal to look to clean up some space on the internal to make enough space for it to boot. If it fails to boot from the CCC Clone, then you will know that the internal drive has system problems that got cloned over and so will need to have a full reinstall done.
    Jake

  5. #20
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    there are at least two types of "clone" processes. One is a block-for-block or byte-for-byte clone and the other is a file by file clone.

    Thanks for providing the extra additional information Jake, especially for the benefit for those who didn't know or realize how such stuff can work.

    I could never understand why a user would want or insist on a block by block backup or clone.

    But I believe CCC and some other software could do so as an option many versions ago. or maybe still can.

    EDIT:
    CCC and The Block-Level Copy
    If enabled in CCC's preferences, CCC will indicate if the source and destination volume selections qualify for a block-level copy.
    The Block-Level Copy | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software



    - Patrick
    ======
    Last edited by pm-r; 09-30-2019 at 09:34 PM.

  6. #21
    Reinstalling/fixing corrupted OS
    Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user121212 View Post
    @Rod

    There's that menu you can still access if you can't boot properly, you can see time machine copies, access disk utility and reinstall OS and one more thing I can't remember. Even that was such a hassle, had to change the time cause it reset to 2016 and stuff.

    I'm thinking about it, and I think I'll buy another HDD, do the carbon copy cloner on that, then go through your method. It'll be a bit time consuming but that's the safest way.
    Then I'll just return one of the external HDDs, and keep one to start making real backups haha.
    That sounds like a plan. Really, so long as all your data is saved somewhere, everything else can be replaced or repaired. If your data is on the same drive as the boot volume that would obviously be ideal.
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    I could never understand why a user would want or insist on a block by block backup or clone.
    I can't either, but I'm sure there are valid reasons for doing that.

    The one benefit of a file-by-file clone vs the block-by-block is that most of the fragmentation on the source drive is eliminated.
    The macOS is pretty good in keeping fragmentation in check, but it's not perfect.
    Last time I compared disk fragmentation on the source to the clone, the fragmentation on the clone was much less - that's with a file-by-file clone.
    With a block-by-block clone fragmentation would stay the same.

  8. #23
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    chscag's Avatar
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    Block by block cloning is a left over method used by Windows cloning applications. It's likely most folks who are familiar with Norton Ghost or Acronis might be thinking that all cloning software works the same way. However, there are Windows apps that can now clone using the file by file method - "Clonezilla", "EaseUS", Paragon, etc.

    Speaking of fragmentation (mentioned above) the once expensive Mac program "iDefrag" is now open and free. The only problem is that it doesn't work with APFS and it's 32 bit.

  9. #24
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    To try to calm things down a bit, there are at least two types of "clone" processes. One is a block-for-block or byte-for-byte clone and the other is a file by file clone. You can definitely clone a bigger drive to a smaller drive as long as the data on the larger drive is smaller than the smaller drive in a file by file clone. That's not a byte-for-byte clone, which goes even further and requires that the two drives absolutely match in geometry (platters, heads, sectors, etc). But for a file-by-file clone, as long as it fits on the smaller drive, it works perfectly. I've done it many times before.
    Thanks for the clear explanation, Jake. I guess that since I just use SuperDuper! "as is" for cloning each of my Mac's internal SSDs, along with insuring that the size of the external drive/partition is a little larger than the size of all the items on each SSD (only using about 40% of each SSD's total capacity), I was unaware of the two types of cloning processes. But I am curious as to the type of cloning SuperDuper! does. I just tried to go a google search of that, but could find nothing definitive. Could you let me know what that is?

    Also, I've only once done a restore from a SuperDuper! backup, and of course it went well (no space issues at all, if that was/is a consideration). If I want to do a complete clean up of each internal SSD, I first boot the applicable Mac from the latest SuperDuper! backup I have, then Erase and Format the SSD. I will then do a clean, fresh installation of the latest version of the Mac OS I am using, and then migrate/copy all the needed files, folders, etc. from that most recent backup. Might seem like a lot of work, but given that I do exactly that when I install a new version of the Mac OS, it's second nature to me (and it works).

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    As for the unbootability of the internal drive, could it be that because the drive is so full that the OS is unable to establish scratch and cache space on it, hence it won't boot. If that is the case and if you get a new drive and CCC, do a full clone to a larger drive, including the system files following the directions at the CCC website, it may well boot from the external because it has the room. Then you can boot from it, then go back to the internal to look to clean up some space on the internal to make enough space for it to boot. If it fails to boot from the CCC Clone, then you will know that the internal drive has system problems that got cloned over and so will need to have a full reinstall done.
    Excellent points! Regarding how "clean" one's system is, and the subsequent backup/clone, that is one of the reasons why I am doing some kind of cleanup every day on my Mac Mini (I also do it when I use my MacBook Air). So far, whenever I migrate/copy needed files, folders, etc. after doing a clean installation of the Mac OS, I've not had any issues.

    It is my understanding that the op has some critical files/folders, and if they are taking up a lot of space, it would be an issue for him to remove them. He mentioned the possibility of purchasing an additional external HDD. That is one reason why I suggested above that he partition that new HDD, then clone everything on his existing external HDD onto that partition (the size of that partition should be anywhere from 10% to 20% larger). Of course, that assumes that the existing external clone is OK, as you so rightly point out. I was under the impression that he can boot from the clone.

    n any event, if he can do that, then he can delete some files, folders, etc. from either the internal SSD, or if he does a clean installation of the Mac OS he is using, or from that external HDD which would be migrated back to the internal SSD.
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  10. #25
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    MacInWin's Avatar
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    honestone33, I think just about all of the "cloners" can do either way. I use CCC and I know it can do both. However the default is file-by-file. Sector-by-sector is, as Charlie said, an old Windows technique that even Windows no longer uses. I can think of two possible uses for sector-by-sector: 1) To make a clone of an encrypted drive without having to unencrypt it first. Since it is blindly copying whatever is in the sector to the same sector on the copy, that clone process would not care about the encryption. 2) To make multiple simultaneous copies of a drive image. Think about a company that has employees who all have identical laptops and desktops with identical drive models. The company has ONE image of a standard installation and does a sector-by-sector copy of the master to multiple copies in parallel. Those drives could also be encrypted with a standard security password that is given to new employees who all have to change it to their password to open it up.

    And that's about all I can think of.
    Jake

  11. #26
    Not booting
    Quote Originally Posted by user121212 View Post
    Hey! So I could access the control menu at startup, the place where you can restore from time machine backup and whatnot. In that menu i tried to repair, but it didn't work.
    Installing a new version of OS on the internal SSD didn't work because there wasn't enough space, so I installed it on an external HDD.

    So when I boot up now, I log in like usual, the external HDD needs to be connected or else it won't start, the apple logo comes and the loading bar, then shuts off before completely loading. The external HDD does appear on the desktop, and I've gotten messages like "Please eject Macintosh HDD safely before you remove".

    Accessing files are very slow as well, and it appears everything came with the installation of OS from the boot menu, as the external HDD has just as much space taken up as the internal SSD.

    So, I need to get the external HDD copy onto the macintosh HDD, I think. But I'm a bit unsure if I'm completely off track in my thinking somehow as I don't know a lot about computers, and wanted to get some advice first. That's why I just tried making a backup first, or replacing the Macintosh HDD with the external one, where i get the "The source volume is readable and writable and cannot be removed from the desktop, so it cannot be copied block by block" error.

    There is the delete Macintosh HDD option, but that's always a bit scary if you're not completely sure what's going on.
    Hallo
    I had the same problem: Macbook was not booting after I tried to reaload a CCC copy. There was a problem with the boot block (it looked like the SSD was nor more able to boot). Started with Apple Logo, but then shut down after ⅔ of the startup bar. When I tried to connect the MacBook to another one in T mode, that Macbook also shut down. Very wired.
    The only help: reformatt your Macbook (hold cmd R when just after you pushed the startup button).
    Paul

  12. #27
    Reinstalling/fixing corrupted OS
    Nighthawk4's Avatar
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    I had that problem with installing Mojave. I had to reformat and reinstall, using a backup as the source for my data.


    Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums

  13. #28
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    Rod's Avatar
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    This I where the advantages of a bootable macOS installer really shine.
    I too had a corrupted macOS Mojave boot volume on my MBP. CCC clone was also fried and could not boot. It appears that whatever happened to the boot volume on my MBP got copied to the clone. That can be avoided by running a data check as part of the cloning process but it's much slower.
    I was saved a lot of time and effort by having a thumb drive with a bootable macOS installer. Even though it was a High Sierra installer I was able to boot, erase my internal drive (you have to do this to install an earlier OS) install HS then upgrade back to Mojave. All my personal data and apps on the clone were intact so just copied them back to the new version of Mojave.
    As an emergency recovery tool a bootable macOS installer on a USB thumb drive is cheap, easy to create at each major upgrade (you must do it before running the upgrade installer app because it is erased after use) and can be created using Terminal or a free app like DiskMakerX.
    It could also be used in conjunction with Time Machine to perform a retrograde install of a previous OS; erase with the USB drive, install previous OS, restore data from Time Machine.


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  14. #29
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    This I where the advantages of a bootable macOS installer really shine.
    I've been so dependent on my SuperDuper! backups to be clean, especially since I take the time and effort to 1) clean unneeded stuff off both of my Macs and have them removed permamently, and 2) use Onyx and Tech Tool Pro once a week for more cleanup and additional maintenance tasks. But I will definitely take your advice and make a Mac OS installer on a USB drive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    As an emergency recovery tool a bootable macOS installer on a USB thumb drive is cheap, easy to create at each major upgrade (you must do it before running the upgrade installer app because it is erased after use) and can be created using Terminal or a free app like DiskMakerX.
    DiskMaker X is an excellent product, and in fact, I just downloaded the latest version. I am going to use it to create a bootable Mojave OS installer on a USB drive right after I am done posting here. (They don't yet have a version compatible with Catalina yet, but I suspect they will once OS 10.15 is released).
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
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  15. #30
    Reinstalling/fixing corrupted OS
    pm-r's Avatar
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    @honestone33
    I am going to use it to create a bootable Mojave OS installer on a USB drive right after I am done posting here.

    You may have some problems getting DiskMaker X to work properly unless you have recently enabled your Spotlight to work as DiskMaker X relies on it as it tries to find the OS X Install program with Spotlight as you might have read at the developers sight.

    And so, yet another reason for enabling Spotlight and letting it do its thing. It seems a lot of software uses the Spotlight database.

    Just wanted to mention the fact in case you ran into problems as DiskMaker X tries to find the OS X Install program with Spotlight's database.


    - Patrick
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