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  1. #61
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    I've never had an issue with doing maintenance on SSD drives. As I previously mentioned, all the Macs I have owned have always lasted me a long time, and that was true even when I had HDDs. As it is, I will need to sell my late 2012 Mac Mini before the next Mac OS release, OS 10.16, as Catalina is the last one I can use on that machine. But heck, by this time next year, after I get a newer Mac Mini, my current will have served me with over 7 years of trouble free computing. And I would be willing to bet that by the time I will need to replace my mid 2017 Mac Book Air (probably in 5 or 6 years, depending on how long Apple will continue to support the machine with each new version of the OS), it will still be running like a charm.

    As for backups, as I mentioned I do two for each of my machines to separate external SSDs. And I do hardly any maintenance on those SSDs. So I bet those will be just fine.

  2. #62
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    IWT's Avatar
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    @honestone33,

    As you go to a great deal of trouble and clearly care for, and look after, your Macs and other possessions, may I ask you a genuine question?

    Do you keep your Macs running 24/7 (with the display turning off after a set time); or do you shut them down daily; or after each session on them?

    Ian
    Ian

  3. #63
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    (and other mechanical devices)
    honestone33, the difference is that the Mac is NOT a mechanical device, and an SSD is even more, not mechanical, but electronic. Maintenance may make sense on a mechanical device, but not on an electronic.


    But hey, you have dodged the bullet so far, keep doing what you are doing and keep dodging those bullets, if that is what makes you happy. Just be aware that what you are doing is actually counter-productive.
    Jake

  4. #64
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    Raz0rEdge's Avatar
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    I have a 2009 27" iMac that is running 24/7 except when I'm going away on vacation for a week or so. It only reboots when there is an update, but comes right back after that. I've done no, that is ZERO, routine maintenance on this thing for it's entire lifetime. The only thing I did was to replace the HDD with a SSD from a hardware perspective. I keep the OS and software I use updated. But beyond running Time Machine, I don't do anything else.

    So while you are going through a pretty exhaustive routine, understand that the machine is just likely to fail after all that or work without any issues without any of it.

    If it makes you feel good, by all means do it, but don't equate that with any actual outcome.
    --
    Regards
    ...Ashwin


  5. #65
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?

    Member Since
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    Derby England.
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    Update or Wait = remember? By golly we have shot off at a massive tangent here! I report that the download and (Accidental install) went very well thanks to all for the advice given so freely. Everything is working well, not that I notice any difference at all but in the back ground no doubt, the iMac does feel "up to date". Thanks one and all for your input it is greatly appreciated.

    Very best regards from Keith in Derby England.
    You failed to prepare, now prepare to fail.
    Growing old is Inevitable -- Growing up is Optional!

  6. #66
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWT View Post
    @honestone33,

    As you go to a great deal of trouble and clearly care for, and look after, your Macs and other possessions, may I ask you a genuine question?

    Do you keep your Macs running 24/7 (with the display turning off after a set time); or do you shut them down daily; or after each session on them?

    Ian
    Appreciate the question (and not being picky about language!). For the Mac Mini, which is the machine I use every day, I do not keep it on 24/7. I do shut it down after I am done with my activities. For example, it is 11:15 AM here in Seattle, and when my wife finishes making me breakfast, I will shut down the machine. There are times I do use it again during the day, and for most evenings, it is not in use after 6 PM or so. Yesterday was an exception, as I used it all yesterday afternoon. For the Mac Book Air, I rarely use it, except 1) when we travel, and 2) for my Saturday maintenance/backup tasks. Note to language pundits: I separated my maintenance and backup tasks with that statement, being careful not to lump them together (or else I'll be attacked by the "language police").
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  7. #67
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    honestone33, the difference is that the Mac is NOT a mechanical device, and an SSD is even more, not mechanical, but electronic. Maintenance may make sense on a mechanical device, but not on an electronic.


    But hey, you have dodged the bullet so far, keep doing what you are doing and keep dodging those bullets, if that is what makes you happy. Just be aware that what you are doing is actually counter-productive.
    What? Macs and SSDs have mechanical moving parts inside them, more so in Macs than SSDs.

    As far as "dodging a bullet", as I have previously mentioned more than once, I have been "dodging this bullet" for so many years, with so many Macs and so many HDDs/SSDs. Never had an issue, and suspect I never will.

    And it definitely has not been counter productive. Quite the opposite.
    Last edited by honestone33; 09-24-2019 at 02:33 PM.
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  8. #68
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz0rEdge View Post
    I have a 2009 27" iMac that is running 24/7 except when I'm going away on vacation for a week or so. It only reboots when there is an update, but comes right back after that. I've done no, that is ZERO, routine maintenance on this thing for it's entire lifetime. The only thing I did was to replace the HDD with a SSD from a hardware perspective. I keep the OS and software I use updated. But beyond running Time Machine, I don't do anything else.

    So while you are going through a pretty exhaustive routine, understand that the machine is just likely to fail after all that or work without any issues without any of it.

    If it makes you feel good, by all means do it, but don't equate that with any actual outcome.
    Well, I have been following my routine for so, so long, and all my Macs and associated HDDs/SSDs have always worked like a charm. One other thing I should mention is that for all the internal HDDs/SSDs I have used (and am currently using), I rarely, if even, go over using half the available space. For example, right now with my Mac Mini, when I do an "About This Mac - Storage", it shows "131.93 GB available out of 230.06 GB". Similar numbers also for my Mac Book Air.
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  9. #69
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Macs and SSDs have mechanical moving parts inside them, more so in Macs than SSDs.
    Wrong. There are zero mechanical moving parts in an SSD. It is entirely electronic, made of integrated circuits and memory chips. Nothing else.

    As for mechanicals in the Mac, if it has an SSD the only mechanical part is the on/off button, the keyboard keys, and the fan, or fans, that blow cooling air. No other mechanical components at all. None. Zero. No spinning drive, no CD drive, nothing mechanical other than the on/off, keyboard and fans.

    Don't believe me? Look at the pictures from ifixit.com as they show repairs of Macs with SSDs. MacBook Air 13" Early 2017 Repair - iFixit
    Jake

  10. #70
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Wrong. There are zero mechanical moving parts in an SSD. It is entirely electronic, made of integrated circuits and memory chips. Nothing else.

    As for mechanicals in the Mac, if it has an SSD the only mechanical part is the on/off button, the keyboard keys, and the fan, or fans, that blow cooling air. No other mechanical components at all. None. Zero. No spinning drive, no CD drive, nothing mechanical other than the on/off, keyboard and fans.

    Don't believe me? Look at the pictures from ifixit.com as they show repairs of Macs with SSDs. MacBook Air 13" Early 2017 Repair - iFixit
    Looks like I need to play "language police".

    Wrong. For SSDs, here are some photos showing the inside:

    Photos of the inside of an SSD - Google Search

    And an associated video:

    YouTube

    While there are no moving mechanical parts, there are still mechanical parts. The integrated circuits, memory chips, etc. are all made out of various materials, and they are soldered onto the circuit board (which is mechanical). So, those parts are mechanical.

    Then of course there is the connection hardware/circuitry for connecting the SSD to the main circuit board inside the machine (another mechanical part).

    For Macs, yes, all the things you mentioned. But then there are all the ports used for connecting peripherals. And there are many, many sensors mounted within the machine. Yes, they are electrical, but they are also mechanical parts, along (again) with the need to mechanically connect them.

    When I replaced the (slow) 1 TB drive inside my Mac Mini with a Samsung 840 Pro 256 gig SSD, I of course needed to make various connections. Such connections are definitely mechanical.
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  11. #71
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    krs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestone33 View Post
    Looks like I need to play "language police".

    Wrong. For SSDs, here are some photos showing the inside:

    Photos of the inside of an SSD - Google Search

    And an associated video:

    YouTube

    While there are no moving mechanical parts, there are still mechanical parts. The integrated circuits, memory chips, etc. are all made out of various materials, and they are soldered onto the circuit board (which is mechanical). So, those parts are mechanical.

    Then of course there is the connection hardware/circuitry for connecting the SSD to the main circuit board inside the machine (another mechanical part).

    For Macs, yes, all the things you mentioned. But then there are all the ports used for connecting peripherals. And there are many, many sensors mounted within the machine. Yes, they are electrical, but they are also mechanical parts, along (again) with the need to mechanically connect them.

    When I replaced the (slow) 1 TB drive inside my Mac Mini with a Samsung 840 Pro 256 gig SSD, I of course needed to make various connections. Such connections are definitely mechanical.
    So are you suggesting your extensive maintenance routine every week is responsible that these 'non-moving" mechanical parts don't fail?

    The only mechanical parts you mention that have a real potential of failure are the connectors and I didn't see you mention that you lubricate those as part of your maintenance routine.

  12. #72
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Looks like I need to play "language police".

    That would be the recommended thing to do, but please do so correctly and accurately.


    - Patrick
    ======

  13. #73
    Upgrade or wait for the next OS?
    honestone33's Avatar
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    One other thing that I need to mention. Some folks have been stating that the maintenance I am performing is not beneficial, and will lead to failure of those SSDs. That would be potentially true if those SSDs were 80% or more full. But it is well known that the more free space one has, the longer the drive will last, along with the drive doing its job more efficiently. Well, as I mentioned above, I am not in that 80% or more category. In fact, I am only using about 40% of each of my internal SSD's space. That was also the case when I had internal HDDs, and even with their more mechanical parts, they still lasted a long time, no matter how much maintenance I did.

    Some folks might then say "Why have so much space if you are not utilizing it". Well, the answers are obvious:

    1. Again, the more free space, the better.

    2. There are times when I do download files that are large, and having that much extra space avoids me having issues with such downloads.
    The KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
    Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.
    Go along, and we'll get along.

  14. #74
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    Raz0rEdge's Avatar
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    Yeah, this thread ended about where I thought it was headed and so we are done!
    --
    Regards
    ...Ashwin


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