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  1. #46
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    I wouldn't even if I could, but I could certainly make the time to do so if would prove beneficial, but I dare say, some of those tests are stressing that Mac beyond normal use which I wouldn't think was very good for its longevity.



    Ian, I'm suspecting but the poor guy doesn't have enough time left over to update his specs with all that maintenance being performed.



    - Patrick
    ======
    First, I have been doing those same tasks for such a long time, on many different Mac models, and all of my Macs have lasted a long, long time. My Mac Mini is now going on 6 1/2 years, and my MacBook Air more than 2 years. For my prior Mac Book Air, it never had an issue in the 5 years or so I had it. When I sold it (got a decent price for it), it was still running like a charm.

    Secondly, I did try to update my info before, but for some reason could not. I suspect it's simple. I'll try again.

    Finally, I always say that maintaining a Mac is like maintaining an automobile. If one neglects to do such necessary (and in some cases, beneficial) maintenance, issues will certainly arise. I make every effort to avoid such issues, both for our automobiles and my Macs.
    Last edited by honestone33; 09-23-2019 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #47
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    honestone33, consider this: All that maintenance work is hammering your SSD(s). SSDs fail because of excessive reads/writes. You are actually shortening the life of your SSD(s) with reads/writes you really don't need to do. I know you live near Microsoft, but macOS isn't Windows and doesn't need "maintenance" like that. I run OnyX about once every six months, never check the SSD with anything, never run memory tests and don't do any of your Saturday routine. I wouldn't say what you do is just overkill, it's more harmful than useful activity. Just. Say. No.
    I think if I had issues with any hard disk (HDD or SSD) with all my maintenance, then you would be correct. But it's just the opposite in my case. Again, I have been doing this for a long, long time, and when I had HDDs, I even ran (via Tech Tool Pro) File and Volume Optimization, and still the devices never failed.

    And living near Microsoft has nothing to do with this.

  3. #48
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    OK, to make folks happy, I just changed my specs. And I did have the time, even with the maintenance I do!

  4. #49
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    MacInWin's Avatar
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    honestone33, the Microsoft comment was a weak attempt at some humor. But seriously, you are over stressing the SSDs enormously with all that work every Saturday. I remember "back in the day" you had to "true" tires to get them round. That truing shaved off some tread to reduce the high spots so that the wheel would not wobble. Now you don't need to do that because the tire manufacturers are better at getting them round in the first place. What you are doing is essentially "truing" the tires of the Mac every Saturday. Every. Saturday. Shaving life off the SSDs.

    But it's a free country (so far) so you do whatever you want. Technology is significantly different from when you started this maintenance routine and what you are doing is not beneficial, but if it makes you feel better...
    Jake

  5. #50
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    honestone33, the Microsoft comment was a weak attempt at some humor. But seriously, you are over stressing the SSDs enormously with all that work every Saturday. I remember "back in the day" you had to "true" tires to get them round. That truing shaved off some tread to reduce the high spots so that the wheel would not wobble. Now you don't need to do that because the tire manufacturers are better at getting them round in the first place. What you are doing is essentially "truing" the tires of the Mac every Saturday. Every. Saturday. Shaving life off the SSDs.

    But it's a free country (so far) so you do whatever you want. Technology is significantly different from when you started this maintenance routine and what you are doing is not beneficial, but if it makes you feel better...
    Well, for tires, I of course check the air pressure (when the tires are cold, of course), and it's not difficult at all. Actually never heard of "truing" tires, but again our tires always lasted a long time (again, due in part to my maintenance efforts). One of our cars actually can detect when the air pressure is low, but again, being proactive, I check them myself at various times. I am sure they are not getting damaged from such checking.

    I am sure there are other folks who would day that the maintenance I am doing is beneficial, and not really harmful. Such a discussion has been going on forever. I distinctly remember the same discussions going on back in the days of HDDs. As it is, the SSD inside my Mac Mini has been there for over 6 years, and it still is fine (at least all the checks I do say it is).

    As for Microsoft, when I was still working, I always went on about the benefits of Apple machines, even when working in Windows environments. That was the case as far back as the early 1980's, when I had my venerable Apple IIE. It served me well in my production support responsibilities. It continued when I had my Apple IIGS, then my various Macs that I started using in 1996. And even with all the maintenance I did back then (as now), the machines lasted me a long, long time.

  6. #51
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    krs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestone33 View Post
    Finally, I always say that maintaining a Mac is like maintaining an automobile. If one neglects to do such necessary (and in some cases, beneficial) maintenance, issues will certainly arise. I make every effort to avoid such issues, both for our automobiles and my Macs.
    Yes....but time marches on....
    I used to regularly change points, the ignition coil and sprk plugs on the automobile as well, but no more.
    Points and coil have disappeared and last time I asked my mechanic about changing spark plugs, he looked at me as if I had lived under a rock for the last ten years.

  7. #52
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    Yes....but time marches on....
    I used to regularly change points, the ignition coil and sprk plugs on the automobile as well, but no more.
    Points and coil have disappeared and last time I asked my mechanic about changing spark plugs, he looked at me as if I had lived under a rock for the last ten years.
    Yes, for quite a few tasks that needed to be done with automobiles, they are no longer applicable. But there are certainly still some basic ones that need to be done. Obviously checking the air pressure in tires is one of them. Until they come up with tires that are airless, that task will still need to be done. One of our automobiles can actually detect such an issue, but I prefer to be proactive and check the air pressure myself. Also, it is both useful and beneficial to be familiar with doing some other basic tasks. I always change both the air, and cabin air, filters in both of our automobiles. Not difficult to do at all, along with saving a significant amount to money. Also, I avoid the necessity to drive to the shop, along with the exorbitant amount they will charge. Another one is fuses, both their location and function. Case in point: the other day, my wife mentioned to me that when she used the Auto setting in our 2005 Mercedes for the Heater/Air Conditioner, the air flow was slow. When I checked the manual way of doing that, the air flow was fine. Well, since 1 + 1 still equals 2 (some folks can't figure that out!), I suspected it was an electrical/fuse issue. So, given that I already knew the location of the primary fuse "box", I opened it up, looked at the diagram that shows all the fuses and their function, replaced the one that I surmised was the problem, and voila, the Auto feature worked as expected, ie, the air flow was back to normal. Besides saving me a lot of money, I also avoided the necessity of driving to the repair facility (and fighting traffic), scheduling the repair, having them diagnose the issue, and subsequently paying their exorbitant fees/charges.

    Those tasks I mentioned are beneficial no matter where one lives! But if one wants to pay such high fees, along with other hassles, be my guest. Again, it's a free world.

  8. #53
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    I wouldn't say what you do is just overkill, it's more harmful than useful activity. Just. Say. No.

    +1!!! And yikes, I missed the fact that SSDs were involved, so thank Jake for catching that detail and take and follow his advicei.


    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #54
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    krs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestone33 View Post
    Case in point: the other day, my wife mentioned to me that when she used the Auto setting in our 2005 Mercedes for the Heater/Air Conditioner, the air flow was slow.
    I don't really want to continue this comparison to automobile maintenance considering this is a Mac forum, but a number of items you mention are repair tasks, like replacing the fuse, not maintenance tasks. I distiguish between the two per my next post.

  10. #55
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    Going back to the original post by honestone33, I actually don’t do any true maintenance on any of the six Macs in the family.
    I try to get users to occasionally empty the trash, both on the system and in Apple Mail, but that is more to make more storage available if they beed it.
    Looked at Onyx once and decided it wasn’t necessary
    Tech Tool Pro I consider a tool to “fix” problems if they occur, not something I have used for years now
    I run malwarebytes or ClamXav when someone thinks they have malware on their Mac - only malware I ever find is Windows malware which does nothing more than use up disk space.

    And then of course I do regular backups, but that in my mind is not really “maintenance”. it does nothing to make the Mac run better or faster, all that is an insurance policy ‘in case’
    But I don’t remember to ever have to use a backup because the Mac or hard drive failed.
    I sometimes use it to boot into an older macOS when the user can’t find photos after a macOS upgrade because Apple changed the software - like going from iPhoto to Photo.

    I suppose a spinner drive could possibly give some warning before it fails - noisy, slow, that type of thing.
    One wouldn’t see that with an SSD.
    Recovering data, if need be, from a spinner is also a lot easier than doing the same from an SSD.
    But that is also beyond maintenance tasks.

    I wonder in general what true maintenance other people do - when I think about it, I don’t do any!

  11. #56
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    I don't really want to continue this comparison to automobile maintenance considering this is a Mac forum, but a number of items you mention are repair tasks, like replacing the fuse, not maintenance tasks. I distiguish between the two per my next post.
    OK, to clarify this "picky" situation, yeah, replacing fuses is repair, not maintenance. But the other 3 I mentioned, replacing the air filter, the cabin air filter, and checking air pressure, are definitely maintenance items. And if one does not keep up with such tasks, it can lead to expensive repairs.

    So, 3 out of 4 is pretty good, regarding being classified as maintenance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    +1!!! And yikes, I missed the fact that SSDs were involved, so thank Jake for catching that detail and take and follow his advicei.


    - Patrick
    ======
    I clearly stated that a couple of times. Also, I was able to correct my profile about the OS, and I had the time to do it!

  12. #57
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post
    Going back to the original post by honestone33, I actually don’t do any true maintenance on any of the six Macs in the family.
    I try to get users to occasionally empty the trash, both on the system and in Apple Mail, but that is more to make more storage available if they beed it.
    Looked at Onyx once and decided it wasn’t necessary
    Tech Tool Pro I consider a tool to “fix” problems if they occur, not something I have used for years now
    I run malwarebytes or ClamXav when someone thinks they have malware on their Mac - only malware I ever find is Windows malware which does nothing more than use up disk space.

    And then of course I do regular backups, but that in my mind is not really “maintenance”. it does nothing to make the Mac run better or faster, all that is an insurance policy ‘in case’
    But I don’t remember to ever have to use a backup because the Mac or hard drive failed.
    I sometimes use it to boot into an older macOS when the user can’t find photos after a macOS upgrade because Apple changed the software - like going from iPhoto to Photo.

    I suppose a spinner drive could possibly give some warning before it fails - noisy, slow, that type of thing.
    One wouldn’t see that with an SSD.
    Recovering data, if need be, from a spinner is also a lot easier than doing the same from an SSD.
    But that is also beyond maintenance tasks.

    I wonder in general what true maintenance other people do - when I think about it, I don’t do any!
    Man, this feels like an English "class"!

    Yes, and again with being "picky", backing up is not a maintenance task. But I just mentioned it as part of my tasks I do once a week. At lest the other 3 (deleting unneeded files, etc., running Onyx, and running Tech Tool Pro) are maintenance tasks. Regarding deleting unneeded files, etc., while initially it makes more space available, neglecting to do that can lead to the necessity to do maintenance on the machine, and possibly repairs.

    I never said that one does backups because a Mac or hard drive failed. But it is, of course, wise to do such backups in case the Mac or hard drive (HDD or SSD) fails. And having a bootable backup makes recovery so much easier.

  13. #58
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    Rod's Avatar
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    Yes, I'm afraid I agree with the general consensus of opinion. Your devotion to Maintainence is admirable but probably unnecessary at that frequency. I take the "If it ain't broke don't fix it,"attitude to Maintainence although I accept that some things are cumulative and may go unnoticed so I occasionally run Onyx to empty caches and stuff and I usually do a clean instal of the next upgrade but not updates. I prefer to use monitoring to alert me to performance changes and only take action where indicated.
    Taken separately many of the things you do are exemplary but are only really necessary occasionally.
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  14. #59
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    I have had drives fail. In fact, I once had the boot drive fail (mechanical failure), and while restoring from my backup, the backup drive died (also mechanical failure). I lost everything, permanently. So now I do two kinds of backups to two different devices once each day and copy my "important" files from the backup to a third drive. One of the backup drives is a RAID array, so technically I have up to four backups of some data. None of that is "maintenance" but protection.

    I don't do ANY "maintenance" on an SSD drive. I see no reason to do so, and no benefit from it. Doing disk "maintenance" is nothing but wear and tear on the drive, hastening failure. Given that is NOT what I want, I baby the drives, demanding as little from them as I can. I have a couple of drive utilities, don't use any of them. The technology of SSDs does not thrive with lots of reads/writes done to it, so anything that does that I avoid.
    Jake

  15. #60
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    honestone33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Yes, I'm afraid I agree with the general consensus of opinion. Your devotion to Maintainence is admirable but probably unnecessary at that frequency. I take the "If it ain't broke don't fix it,"attitude to Maintainence although I accept that some things are cumulative and may go unnoticed so I occasionally run Onyx to empty caches and stuff and I usually do a clean instal of the next upgrade but not updates. I prefer to use monitoring to alert me to performance changes and only take action where indicated.
    Taken separately many of the things you do are exemplary but are only really necessary occasionally.
    Your statements are admirable, but just like automobiles (and other mechanical devices), there are times when it is best to be proactive about maintenance. I am positive there are folks who do much more maintenance on automobiles than I do, even if some folks would not consider it necessary. Yes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is at times applicable. But to each his own, for these tasks. I prefer to be more proactive about it, others do not. All well and good. Given that it has always been beneficial for me, I will continue to do it. But for folks like yourself who choose to do maintenance less frequently, that's fine. Hopefully all of us can "agree to disagree". I just hope this does not continue being like an English class, with folks being so picky about language.

    One other thing is that I do not always do a clean installation of the Mac OS within the same OS. For example, after doing a clean installation of OS 10.14.2, when OS 10.14.3 came out, I just applied the OS 10.14.3 Combo Updater. That is also something I have always done, and again it works well for me. Within a current OS, I usually do at least one "in between" clean installation (actually a clean re-installation). I am aware of other folks on other discussion sites who have done this. While it might not be for everyone, again I find benefits in doing that.

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