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  1. #31
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Again Patrick.... That's a poor excuse on the part of the Disk Warrior developers. Other utility developers such as Bombich (CCC) and SuperDuper (ShirtPocket) had no problems whatsoever with APFS.

    I wasn't really trying to make an excuse Charlie, but I was suggesting that there are other third party developers who also need information on AppleI's APFS so that they can and do Upgrade their utilities further and make them compatible.

    It would seem to me that there are a fair number of the Developers that rely on the knowledge of the inner workings of the latest macOS directory and its file system, and they may require more in depth knowledge then what just backup or cloning software requires.

    Maybe Apple considers that none of the extra software (or third-party developers or software) is needed as they may feel that they already provide all that's really necessary. At least in their mind. Please excuse my shudder here!!!



    - Patrick
    ======
    Last edited by pm-r; 05-18-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #32
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    Slydude's Avatar
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    Your Mac's Specs
    2.8 GHz 2008 MacBook Pro 10.11, 8 GB mem, iPhone XS, 2015 iMac 16 GB 10.14.4 beta
    The current page for Tech Tool pro indicates that the current version (11) handles APFS drives
    Techtool Pro will test, rebuild, and repair damaged directories on corrupted hard drives, and optimize the data directories when they are repaired. Techtool Pro supports Apple's new APFS file system, standard Mac OS Extended volumes, as well as MS-DOS (FAT32) and ExFAT formatted volumes.

    When repairing, Volume Rebuild will display a comparison chart before directory data is replaced. Use Volume Rebuild to keep your drives operating at their peak performance

    Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Slydude View Post
    The current page for Tech Tool pro indicates that the current version (11) handles APFS drives
    Did you read the discussion?
    Micromat :: Topic: APFS - AGAIN no support (1/1)

  4. #34
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krs View Post

    +!

    That's basically what I have been saying.


    - Patrick
    ======

  5. #35
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    chscag's Avatar
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    Your Mac's Specs
    2017 27" iMac, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, Numerous iPods, Mojave
    That discussion you refer to was back in March 31, 2019.

    And here's their advertisement for Techtool Pro 11:

    Most drive problems, however, result from data being in the wrong place, and can be repaired using TechTool Pro’s Volume Rebuild tool. In addition to native Mac drive formats, Mac OS Extended and APFS, Techtool Pro supports testing and repair of MS-DOS (FAT32) and ExFAT formatted volumes.

    @krs:

    Are you saying that they're not telling us the truth when they clearly say they can repair APFS formatted drives?

  6. #36
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    chscag's Avatar
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    That's basically what I have been saying.
    Saying what? Techtool Pro clearly advertises that they can repair APFS drives. If you're stating that Apple has not released info on APFS to developers, well then some developers apparently have inside information!

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    That discussion you refer to was back in March 31, 2019.
    Back in March???
    That was only 6 or so weeks ago. You make it sound as if this discussion was last year.

    And even if they received the documentation from Apple then....it takes a lot longer than 6 weeks to digest it, make the software changes, test it and get it to market.

    nd here's their advertisement for Techtool Pro 11:

    Most drive problems, however, result from data being in the wrong place, and can be repaired using TechTool Pro’s Volume Rebuild tool. In addition to native Mac drive formats, Mac OS Extended and APFS, Techtool Pro supports testing and repair of MS-DOS (FAT32) and ExFAT formatted volumes.
    @krs:
    Are you saying that they're not telling us the truth when they clearly say they can repair APFS formatted drives?
    I have no idea, but it wouldn't be the first time the marketing and sales guys are three steps ahead when it comes to product capabilities.

    As an aside, but along the same lines...
    I just bought a small MP4 player.
    The advertisement said "MP4 Player" the cover on the user guide says DIGITAL MP4 PLAYER", the player itself has a Video setting among others, but it won't play mp4 files and when I read through the manual to see how to set it up, there was no mention of mp4 (other than on the cover) or video - in fact the listing of supported formats in the manual did not include mp4 or any other video format.

    So does Tech Tool Pro 11 fully support all functionality required to repair/rebuild the APFS format? Maybe someone who is using it can tell us.
    All the Macs that I'm concerned with maintaining are only at the El Capitan macOS level.

  8. #38
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    Slydude's Avatar
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    @krs
    I hadn’t read that discussion when I posted. I was simply pointing out that their site was touting a level of APFS support.

    I’ve just read that discussion and the discussion seems to hinge on a distinction between basic APFS support for directory repair versus support for such things as directory optimization. Which one could argue is less important for those with SSD drives.

    All of that doesn’t change my opinion of DW’s lack of APFS support. That’s a major hurdle for them because disk repair is all they do essentially. TTP, for example, tests other aspects of a Mac’s functioning that don’t rely on APFS support.


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  9. #39
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    chscag's Avatar
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    Your Mac's Specs
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    That was only 6 or so weeks ago. You make it sound as if this discussion was last year.
    That's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that it was back in March 2019, it could very well be that things changed since then.

    Also, how do you explain their advertisement?

    So does Tech Tool Pro 11 fully support all functionality required to repair/rebuild the APFS format? Maybe someone who is using it can tell us.
    All the Macs that I'm concerned with maintaining are only at the El Capitan macOS level.
    LOL, so why are you even concerned then if you have nothing formatted to APFS?

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Slydude View Post
    All of that doesn’t change my opinion of DW’s lack of APFS support.
    I agree with you, but the discussion was why?
    With the comment that CCC and SD have APFS support.
    All I and I think Patrick were saying is that the APFS details one needs to provide APFS support for CCC or SD are vastly different than for DW and that other disk repair programs don't provide full APFS support either.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    Also, how do you explain their advertisement?
    Have you never come across an advertisement that promises more than is actually delivered? Or is misleading?
    I see those all the time.
    LOL, so why are you even concerned then if you have nothing formatted to APFS?
    I'm interested in a lot of things that don't affect me directly, aren't you?
    And in this case, I'm going to end up with APFS eventually, so this is not just an academic interest.

  12. #42
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    Slydude's Avatar
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    That is true and tbh I'd rather have it right than fast.

    I think you are right about the two type of utilitiies possibly needing very different information from Apple. The discussion that was linked to suggested as much. Its still been a long wait given that APFS support started in High SIerra.

    I stoped using DW before APFS came about because I just couldn't justify the cost. As other utilities improved I was seeing less and less need for it. Once the cost of the program reached the cost of a new hard drive I pretty mucch gave up on it.
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
    Kevin Durant

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Slydude View Post
    That is true and tbh I'd rather have it right than fast.

    I think you are right about the two type of utilitiies possibly needing very different information from Apple. The discussion that was linked to suggested as much. Its still been a long wait given that APFS support started in High Sierra.
    I don't know how proprietary Apple thinks APFS is and what unique benefits it provides compared to other file systems, but when I ran a Product Management group at a high tech company we certainly would not provide internal design documents to any external company.
    If the external company provided a complimentary product to ours that we deemed was beneficial to support our product sales and if we had no interest to provide that product or capability ourselves, we would create a "watered-down" document to allow that company to do the development, but the creation of that document had a very low priority.
    I have no idea where Apple stands with all of that when it comes to APFS, but in the past I have seen Apple incorporate features into macOS where one previously needed software from a third party essentially putting that third party out of business.
    Maybe Apple feels that they have built all the recovery mechanisms required into APFS and disk utility (or will when they have completed that development) and DW or the other programs are no longer necessary.

  14. #44
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    I don't know how proprietary Apple thinks APFS is and what unique benefits it provides compared to other file systems,

    I sure hope they supply more information than what I could find with a search on 'APFS support' at the developer site. But of course I don't have full access as I'm not a paid developer, but they did supply this:
    What's New in Apple File System
    What's New in Apple File System - WWDC 2017 - Videos - Apple Developer

    But I think any software developers are going to need a wee bit more than that!!!
    I guess the info is in there somewhere, but not for general public use or access, and then again maybe only for certain developers, if and when Apple allows such access.


    - Patrick
    ======

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