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Thread: Browser Upgrade

  1. #16
    Browser Upgrade
    Rod's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 12, 2011
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    Melbourne, Australia and Ubud, Bali, Indonesia
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    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Pro Retina 13" macOSX 10.13.3 beta
    Quote Originally Posted by wicknix View Post
    Why recommend a 3 year old browser when there are other newer browsers available? Pale Moon 27 supported 10.6 until october of 2018. Arctic Fox (a fork of PM27) continues where PM27 left off, and Tenfourfox also has 2 intel ports. All of them are more current than Firefox from 2016.
    Considering your posted article on MacRumors Forums about Arctic Fox and its limitations re extensions, ability to play video content (via Quicktime plugin) problems with Javascript heavy sites etc it strikes me as an app for enthusiasts who like to "tweak" things. As for TenFourFox it is, as mentioned in a reply on the same post extremely slow. Lastly Pale Moon 27 is only for Windows and Linux I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


    Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  2. #17
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    @Patrick If I were the developer of either program (CCC or DW) I don't think I would count on any remaining contacts at Apple for inside informamtion. It's a pretty good bet that Apple has anyone with that level of knowledge on a non disclosure agreement, Given that Apple has been rather agressive about enforcing such agreements in the past, I doubt someone would risk their jobs/careers.

    Sly, I would agree and say you are spot on and didn't think of that side of things.

    As for DiskWarrior, and as a very long time user, I am quite disappointed about what I read about it but I haven't been anywhere near APFS or even Mojave to really need any update, whether one exists or not.

    OT: I do know DiskWarrior, nor any other utility or methods for that matter, was able to repair the "Invalid Node Structure" that has existed on my Mavericks partition volume, probably since the day it was created or Mavericks was installed. Not even using several Nuke and Pave attempts.
    It doesn't seem to bother anything so I occasionally fix it with DiskUtility that does a temporary fix and deletes the list of invisible, zero k nodes from the "Lost & Found" folder that can appear after running DiskUtility.


    - Patrick
    ======

  3. #18
    Browser Upgrade

    Member Since
    May 15, 2019
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    3
    Your Mac's Specs
    Dual 2GHz PowerMac G5
    I think you misunderstood a few things.

    First. Pale Moon has had Mac builds for 3-4 years now. However they should be considered beta, much like firefox nightly builds. We are working towards "official branding". Only a few small kinks left to work out that don't impact usability or browsing experience however. The latest PM28 dropped 10.6 support, but still supports 10.7+. Pale Moon for Mac OSX - Pale Moon forum

    Second. Arctic Fox can easily play youtube natively, handle most all heavy JS sites, and use many extensions. The only reason that's mentioned on github/macrumors is because we also have powerpc linux builds. Many people are using old G3/G4 machines that just don't have the horsepower to handle such things. Using a mobile UA to lighten the load, and using a native video player to handle streaming video is less cpu intensive than html5 on old hardware.

    Third. Pale Moon & Arctic Fox are not firefox rebrands, but forked and diverged enough to not be 100% FF compatible as their code moves further and further away from mozilla/chrome code. So not every FF add-on will work. Most will, some need minor modifications, and some just wont work at all. However most popular ones are supported, or are forked.

    Fourth. As for TenFourFox, yes on an old PowerPC G3/G4 it is slow. Toss it on an Intel machine and it's a whole new browser.

    Hope that helps clear up the confusion one might have. Here's a third party video i found on youtube talking about Arctic Fox.
    YouTube

    Cheers

  4. #19
    Browser Upgrade
    Rod's Avatar
    Member Since
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    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Pro Retina 13" macOSX 10.13.3 beta
    Okay, thanks wicknix for the clarification, I have recommended TenFourFox in the past as a viable alternative to outdated versions of Safari. You will notice that the OP does not identify which device he is using, just an older iMac so.......
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  5. #20
    Browser Upgrade
    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    ...DW used to be almost mandatory in a Mac tech's toolbox IMHO and my copy certainly did its fair share of repair and recovery over the years, but I haven't needed to do any update, but neither will I likely be exposed to any need to...
    We had an interesting discussion on TidBITs Talk a while back, with the subject "Looking For Disk Warrior Justification." Maybe it is available in the list's archive.

    The upshot of it was that back in the days of the Classic Mac OS, Apple's included Disk First Aid wasn't particularly effective, and that disk problems came up often enough that Disk Warrior (or similar, but DW was the most popular), was both a godsend and almost a necessity.

    Parenthetically, I remember that on most large Macintosh discussion lists, back years ago, about once or twice a month there used to be a message from some user whose hard drive had apparently "died" and that DW almost miraculously resurrected it. That was impressive, but I haven't seen a post like that on a Mac discussion list in years now.

    Nowadays the Mac OS is quite a bit more stable and reliable, Disk Utility/First Aid usually works well when needed, and a utility such as Disk Warrior is rarely necessary for your average user. On top of that, Disk Warrior is now $125. For $125 these days, instead of purchasing Disk Warrior, assuming that you have a back up of your data (and you should) you can instead just purchase a nice replacement hard drive, which in my mind is a much better value, because once a disk fails so badly that Disk Warrior is necessary to repair it, can you ever really trust it again?
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  6. #21
    Browser Upgrade
    Rod's Avatar
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    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Pro Retina 13" macOSX 10.13.3 beta
    I agree that trusting that drive again may be a mistake but sometimes a user might just want to ressurect the drive long enough to finish a task/project or back it up with the most recent changes. Particularly with portable devices, the backup drive may not be constantly connected. Still $125.00, is that US $ ?


    Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  7. #22
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    Randy B. Singer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sprague View Post
    Still $125.00, is that US $ ?
    Yes. Sorry, it's only $120. And it's a ridiculous amount for a software utility.
    Randy B. Singer
    Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
    Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

  8. #23
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    That was impressive, but I haven't seen a post like that on a Mac discussion list in years now.
    ....
    On top of that, Disk Warrior is now $125. For $125 these days, instead of purchasing Disk Warrior, assuming that you have a back up of your data (and you should) you can instead just purchase a nice replacement hard drive,

    +1.
    Yes, times and things have changed a fair bit and I was just about to post the same thing of purchasing a replacement drive instead, as I read your post, and one could easily save some money with the low cost of most HHDs these days.

    But I must admit, for those who still have a copy of DiskWarrior, it's psychologically very refreshing and pleasing to see a DW graphic representing one's rebuilt directory in a pristine state!!!

    PS: No, I have no idea if it makes a computer run better or faster or not with a fairly clean rebuilt OS X Directory.


    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #24
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy B. Singer View Post
    Yes. Sorry, it's only $120. And it's a ridiculous amount for a software utility.

    So cheap for you folks — yes, being sarcastic... Try being in Canada where the cost climbs a fair bit to"
    DiskWarrior $161.37cdn
    DiskWarrior Upgrade $80.65cdn

    And man, I can't recall the number of times I have had to purchase the upgrade over the years, I think the office gal and I were almost on a first name basis.

    That's a hell of an investment in just one utility!!! But it was good for what it was able to do, and usually did it well. But then, that was back then and as mentioned, OS X things were different.

    PS: I wonder if ALSoft has to pay Apple for the use of a bootable System which could account for its high price??? But didn't some lower price utilities do a similar thing???


    - Patrick
    ======

  10. #25
    Browser Upgrade
    Slydude's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location
    North Louisiana, USA
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    14,014
    Your Mac's Specs
    2.8 GHz 2008 MacBook Pro 10.11, 8 GB mem, iPhone XS, 2015 iMac 16 GB 10.14.4 beta
    I started using DW back in the clamshell iBooks. My wife experienxws a recurring bug where the directory structure pf a drove would sometimes get corrupted when the system went to sleep. At least I think that was the bug anyway. It has been a while.

    I kept a copy around for quite a while until I relaized updates were getting more expensive and I was using it less and less as other utilities, including Disk Utility, improved. To me DW has alwats been something of a one trick pony: Hard to justify the cost until you need it.
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
    Kevin Durant

  11. #26
    Browser Upgrade
    chscag's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 23, 2008
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    Keller, Texas
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    2017 27" iMac, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, Numerous iPods, Mojave
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy B. Singer View Post
    Yes. Sorry, it's only $120. And it's a ridiculous amount for a software utility.
    Not only is the price ridiculous, the developers do not seem to be very diligent in providing a version that can deal with APFS. Every new Apple computer being sold is formatted to APFS and anyone who has upgraded to Mojave is using APFS.

    And like Randy pointed out, it would be less expensive to just replace the hard drive rather than buy Disk Warrior. I know that someone will say... I need it to recover data on a bad hard drive. Well, that's what backups are for.

  12. #27
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    Slydude's Avatar
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    Nov 16, 2009
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    North Louisiana, USA
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    Your Mac's Specs
    2.8 GHz 2008 MacBook Pro 10.11, 8 GB mem, iPhone XS, 2015 iMac 16 GB 10.14.4 beta
    I was both surprised and saddened to learn about the lack of APFS support in DW. I din't realize this until I read this thread.

    What I find a bit odd about the lack of APFS support is that it is taking so long. APFS has been available as an option since Hight SIerra was released IIRC. I used it for a bit before Apple announced it wasn't supported on fusion drives.
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
    Kevin Durant

  13. #28
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slydude View Post
    I was both surprised and saddened to learn about the lack of APFS support in DW. I din't realize this until I read this thread.

    What I find a bit odd about the lack of APFS support is that it is taking so long. APFS has been available as an option since Hight SIerra was released IIRC. I used it for a bit before Apple announced it wasn't supported on fusion drives.

    I have a feeling, but no proof, that Apple may have something to do with the lack of third-party APFS support and DW is sure not the only utility to be affected and this discussion seems typical:
    Anyone know WHEN Alsoft's DiskWarrior will ever be able to rebuild APFS disks?
    Anyone know WHEN Alsoft's DiskWarrior… - Apple Community



    - Patrick
    ======

  14. #29
    Browser Upgrade
    chscag's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 23, 2008
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    Keller, Texas
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    Your Mac's Specs
    2017 27" iMac, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, Numerous iPods, Mojave
    Again Patrick.... That's a poor excuse on the part of the Disk Warrior developers. Other utility developers such as Bombich (CCC) and SuperDuper (ShirtPocket) had no problems whatsoever with APFS. Also, as inexpensive as new hard drives are, just replace the drive rather than spend money on a utility that's overpriced and not up to par.

    Sure, there are going to be folks who do not backup and need to get at their data. Maybe that's who DW is for.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    Again Patrick.... That's a poor excuse on the part of the Disk Warrior developers. Other utility developers such as Bombich (CCC) and SuperDuper (ShirtPocket) had no problems whatsoever with APFS. .
    You can't compare the information developers of back-up cloning software like CCC and SD need as far as APFS is concerned to what is needed for software to restore corrupt directories or other aspects to try to fix a corrupted storage media.
    From what I read, Tech Tool Pro and Drive Genius are in the same boat as DW in not having an APFS compatible version.

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