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  1. #1
    Whose computer is this??

    Member Since
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    Whose computer is this??
    I went to the Applications folder for the Install OS Yosemite app and what do I find? It has magically turned itself into Install Sierra app. And not just here but in every TimeMachine back up since October 2016; in older TM back-ups it is totally erased. I hadn't noticed so it is also copied onto SuperDuper back-up

    I need El Capitan or older to re-instate a system on my wife's 2009 MBP on which the hard-drive has gone. I know I can re-download the installer, but the point is why the **** should I have to? Also, to find files in TimeMachine back-ups, I have to use the .dbd directories cos TM has decided to only display the User Folder I usually sign in on (but keep absolutely nothing in as I like to have my stuff arranged how I like on the main directory.)

    TM & App Store (not sure which most guilty) is being run by fascists, who have un-given rights over my computer; how much further is this going to go? This is just too much, on top of constantly being told 'you do not have privileges to open this file' and having to sort that.

    If there isn't one already, we need a Guide how to regain control of our computers and keep interfering know-bests from interfering without permission.....

    .....Another multi-hour download (dead slow rural broadband) and creation of usb drive.....

    grrrr

  2. #2
    Whose computer is this??
    badshoehabit's Avatar
    Member Since
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    You can opt out: System Preferences → App Store and uncheck the boxes you don't want.
    Screen Shot 2017-03-27 at 11.45.42.jpg
    Sue

    If the shoe fits, buy it in every colour.

  3. #3
    Whose computer is this??
    IWT's Avatar
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    @ crisscross

    This was well advertised in advance and I, amongst many others, wrote about this on these forums.

    With Sierra, Apple offered to download the Installer in the background during quiet periods to avoid the very thing of which you complain - a slow broadband speed and waiting for hours for the Installer. Instead, there it was when needed. There was never any intention to install, only download.

    If this did not suit the user, it could be turned off; as Sue has indicated above.

    Many people found this practice a great help. And the user could choose when, if ever, they wanted to install. Or simply delete the downloaded Installer.

    So, you were given choice.

    This never happened before with an OS, so if you want El Capitan, you have to download it. As you would always have had to do. There is no extra work for you and nobody is taking over your computer. You were always able to disallow the Sierra Installer download had you chosen to do so.

    Hope that background helps.

    Ian
    Ian

  4. #4
    MacInWin
    Guest
    Also, as part of the installation process, at the end the installer deletes the install file. That's been that way for quite a while now. So, when you installed Yosemite, if you didn't save a copy somewhere other than in Applications first, it got erased at the end. That's why it's not there now. A lot of us build bootable USB sticks and put the installer on that before we do an install. In fact, a lot of us do that so we can do a clean install and then restore from our backups. Clean installs are generally better in the long run at avoiding strange issues.

  5. #5
    Whose computer is this??

    Member Since
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    OK, I live in a dark wood and neither saw nor realise the implication of which boxes are checked on that System Pref pane; my interpretation from the ones I do and don't have checked is that I would be informed when updates were ready to be installed and no way would I have allowed Sierra to 'pass'.

    However, keeping one updated is different from erasing previously stored and backed-up downloads. Also taking auntie control of Time Machine

    At present App Store also seems to be refusing to Download my 'purchased' El Capitan. Could try Yosemite, I suppose, despite having opted to 'Download anyway' on warning I have an updated El Cap on the computer already.

    I have stopped the install at a point where the Install OSX.. was in Apps at least twice and am pretty sure installed El Cap on the other computer with a dead drive from here. I would have thought that in old TM back-ups would have been 'elsewhere'. I know now that means off the computer and will make USB stick installer.
    Last edited by crisscross01; 03-27-2017 at 12:00 PM.

  6. #6
    MacInWin
    Guest
    No, "elsewhere" means not in the Applications folder. That's all. You can keep it wherever you want, just not in the Applications folder. And it should be in the TM backups if you go far enough back to where it was, but I suspect that when you upgraded, it started a new set of TM archives. But if you have a set of backups from after downloading the installer but before installing El Cap, it should be there. That could be a pretty narrow set of time, however, if you are like most of us and install pretty quickly after the download completes.

  7. #7
    Whose computer is this??

    Member Since
    Nov 07, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    No, "elsewhere" means not in the Applications folder. That's all. You can keep it wherever you want, just not in the Applications folder. And it should be in the TM backups if you go far enough back to where it was, but I suspect that when you upgraded, it started a new set of TM archives. But if you have a set of backups from after downloading the installer but before installing El Cap, it should be there. That could be a pretty narrow set of time, however, if you are like most of us and install pretty quickly after the download completes.
    I have TM back-ups for about a year and the Install apps for El Capitan and Yosemite, which I know were on the computer have all gone upto Oct 2016 when Sierra came in.

    I have not been able to re-download either El Cap or Yosemite from my App Store "puchases", which I know is working as the button on the iMovie download duly turned into an Install button. On the install app downloads, there was a grey activity wheel for a while, but never got as far as an activity bar and estimated time to replace the greyed out Download buttons, much less a full download.

    It strikes me they are doing their best to get rid of all older downloads

    The interesting thing will be what happens when I install a new HD on the 2009 MBP. Hopefully I can format it and Install Snow Leopard from the original disks, then....?? Officially it is not meant to be able to run Sierra, although I think it has been offering it on App Store Updates, though that may, hopefully, change when the process is started

    BTW I am 77 and have been using Macs since the SE & IIci in about 1987. I already have to keep a G4 Powerbook for OS 9, A3 printer and Scanner and have absolutely no reason to keep installing new OS as I don't use or want any phones etc

  8. #8
    MacInWin
    Guest
    Chris, I cannot say what happened to your system. I'm not there to look at it directly. But I can say that the simple act of downloading and installing Sierra did NOT delete the installers for El Cap or Yosemite. Something else may have, but not that. I can make that statement because the same act, downloading and installing Sierra, did NOT delete my copy of the installers for El Cap, or Yosemite or even Mavericks. I still have them all. As for being able to download them, I would suggest you contact Apple about that if it's critical to you. They do have El Cap available for those folks with systems that cannot run Sierra, but it's not at the same URL as the Sierra download.

    Also, in my account the installers for El Cap and Yosemite do still show in my Purchased tab, along with Mavericks and Lion, too. So they SHOULD be there for you if you ever downloaded them at all.

    Good luck with it. Maybe Apple can help you get your previously purchased copies of El Cap and Yosemite to show up again.

  9. #9
    Whose computer is this??
    IWT's Avatar
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    Chris, as Jake mentioned that those Macs incapable of running macOS Sierra can still get El Capitan even if they did not purchase to previously, I thought I would post the Link to the appropriate site - just in case it applies too you.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

    Ian
    Ian

  10. #10
    Whose computer is this??

    Member Since
    Nov 07, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Chris, I cannot say what happened to your system. I'm not there to look at it directly. But I can say that the simple act of downloading and installing Sierra did NOT delete the installers for El Cap or Yosemite. Something else may have, but not that. I can make that statement because the same act, downloading and installing Sierra, did NOT delete my copy of the installers for El Cap, or Yosemite or even Mavericks. I still have them all. As for being able to download them, I would suggest you contact Apple about that if it's critical to you. They do have El Cap available for those folks with systems that cannot run Sierra, but it's not at the same URL as the Sierra download.

    Also, in my account the installers for El Cap and Yosemite do still show in my Purchased tab, along with Mavericks and Lion, too. So they SHOULD be there for you if you ever downloaded them at all.

    Good luck with it. Maybe Apple can help you get your previously purchased copies of El Cap and Yosemite to show up again.
    OK my computer and TM back-up were knobbled by Martians

    The links for OSX back to Mountain Lion are indeed in my "purchased" pane of Apple Store, only they just don't work

    Ian's link does go to a different page. However, as it is for Macs that can't use Sierra, it may or may not work on this 2011 MBP; I am trying progressive upgrades first.

    I got the replacement hard drive for the 2009 MBP today and installed OSX 10.6 from the original install disk, which I am now upgrading to 10.6.8 which seems to be necessary before proper App Store becomes an option

  11. #11
    MacInWin
    Guest
    Ah, different problem. The links won't work if the App store detects that the installers are already on your system. The App store gets that information from Spotlight as it holds the index to the drive. So, a suggestion would be to see what Spotlight can do to find the installers. Either it will or it won't but in either case, you'll know. IF it does, you are golden. If it does not, then force a reindex of Spotlight (add and then delete a drive from the search parameters in System Preferences/Spotlight/Privacy). Once it is done, return to the store and see if the files can be downloaded.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by crisscross View Post
    TM & App Store (not sure which most guilty) is being run by fascists, who have un-given rights over my computer; how much further is this going to go? This is just too much, on top of constantly being told 'you do not have privileges to open this file' and having to sort that.

    If there isn't one already, we need a Guide how to regain control of our computers and keep interfering know-bests from interfering without permission.....grrrr
    Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I got the following procedure from Apple Care over the phone for logging in as root user (the "super-user" with "ungiven rights" to your computer, higher than your administrator's privileges) in order to transfer data from my dead Mac's HD to my new one (having authorizations' issues even as an administrator). Just be careful, you can really mess up your computer by playing with this if you don't know what you're doing, and as a precaution, you should always erase that user after you're done. And you may have to save your data on an external HD and reinstall Mac OS afterwards, especially if your computer's language is not English.

    - Start up computer holding Cmd+R

    - Go to: Terminal

    - Go to: Reset Password, and hit: Enter

    - In the new window that pops up: choose Macintosh HD (or whatever name your HD/SSD has)

    - User name : root (mandatory!)

    - Password : root (you can pick another but it makes it easier, as you'll erase that user once you're done anyway)

    - Hit: Save button.

    Turn off computer and restart (normally).

    - Within users' list, choose "other" (or "root" if it comes up, it all depends on your system preferences beforehand)

    - With user's name "root", type in your password (also "root" in this example, or whatever password you just picked)

    Once you're logged on, go copy any file you need to recover (from any user on that hd, ssd, or external hd that gave you trouble with authorizations before) to the user's account you wish (preferably an administrator's account). Apple didn't specify it to me, but before copying, i clicked "informations" (Cmd+I) on every folder or file i was retrieving and selected "read and write" for "everyone" (bottom part of informations window), and checked the box "apply to included elements" for folders so i wouldn't have trouble later.

    Log out and back on with the user's account you copied data to, and check that the imported files actually open. If some of them don't, don't worry, it happens, go back to root account and repeat copying procedure and you should be fine.

    Once you're done, in order to erase root user:

    - Log on to an account with administrative rights (if the one you were on didn't have those rights, otherwise just stay on)

    - Go to: System preferences / Users and groups

    - Click on the lock and type your password if you need to unlock (depending on your settings)

    - Click on: Options (bottom of the left pane) / Join (on the bottom right) / Directory utility

    - Go to: Edition (in the menu bar on top of the screen) / Deactivate root user.

    Just so you know, English not being the default language on my Mac, it kept bugging after this procedure, even after deleting root user (the window when you turn off the computer kept appearing in English). So to be on the safe side, i had to save all data on an external HD and make a clean install of Mac OS again.

    Hope that's what you were looking for, and it's all understandable (notes quickly taken over the phone only wishing to understand myself at the time, sorry...).
    Last edited by Soham; 03-29-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Whose computer is this??

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    I am pleased to report that after upgrading 2009MBP to OSX10.6.8 and all other offered upgrades, I was able to get to Ian's link/page. From there it was possible to download OSX with an activity bar indicating something happening. A few hours later an "Install OSX El Capitan" window appeared. Interestingly occluding activity bar which still showed an hour or two to go; my suspicion is in order to tempt one to bypass the stage where the Install OSX El Capitan.app was in the Applications folder. I was not tempted and promptly whisked a copy off to an obscure partition of an external drive. It is described as a version suitable for computers that cannot run Sierra; I have wondered before how different the OS is on machines with different chips. (in this case Core2duo and i7). Whether in fact one needs a thumb drive specifically to each machine or whether the version of the OS is decided during the install procedure.

    After another hour or two, most of it is up and running in a recognisable manner. Hooray!! Now to do the thumb drive I should have done before and (hopefully) copy across or re-install the necessary applications. I also now know to do a SuperDuper backup of that computer, even though virtually all the information is a sub-set of what is on the 2011MBP and its several back-ups.

    Thank you Soham, but your suggestion is not the sort of thing I would try

  14. #14
    Whose computer is this??
    IWT's Avatar
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    Good for you, Chris. Happy computing.

    Ian
    Ian

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