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  1. #16
    To iTunes 11 or Not to iTunes 11?
    robduckyworth's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 04, 2011
    Reading, UK
    Your Mac's Specs
    15" MBP, 2.5GHz i7, 750GB, 6770M 1GB, iPad 3, iPhone 4, custom PC
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    Everything is great - bar one tiny little really irritating thing that annoys me to no end: they took the option to have a dark grid view background out. I want it back, Apple! The white is too bright!
    If you find a post helpful, don't forget to use the reputation system (top right of post.)
    Join us in the IRC! How? Add me on Steam, Origin or PSN (Vita): robduckyworth

  2. #17
    To iTunes 11 or Not to iTunes 11?
    bobtomay's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 22, 2006
    Texas, where else?
    Your Mac's Specs
    15" MBP '06 2.33 C2D 4GB 10.7; 13" MBA '14 1.8 i7 8GB 10.11; 21" iMac '13 2.9 i5 8GB 10.11; 6S
    Rep Power
    Really dislike that there is no doubletap to minimize the window. What's the deal with that?
    I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth.
    In the Windows world, most everything folks don't understand is called a virus.

  3. #18
    To iTunes 11 or Not to iTunes 11?

    Member Since
    Feb 22, 2008
    algarve in sunny southern Portugal,near the sea
    Your Mac's Specs
    intel 17'', 2Ghz I-Mac replaced under warranty by an alu 20'' iMac
    Rep Power
    why i don't like it so much...
    Hi guys

    i seldom post preferring to read & learn from so many obviously more experienced OS users & greatly enjoy it but this iTunes update - as i've spent 40 odd years collecting/buying music, have it all on my iTunes AND it's a program i use A LOT.. - warranted a post with my impressions.
    it's rather lengthy - my apologies.. - & does NOT pretend to be exhaustive
    if curious do bear with me...

    my first impressions using iTunes 11:

    after the initial shock & horrifying 1st experience using my updated iTunes11 ( which thank goodness i managed to easily ''downdate'' a couple of hours later.. ) i booted my iMac from an external drive & updated iTunes to give it a thorough once over while trying to get over my immediate & VERY emotional reaction against it - maybe it ISN'T THAT bad after all ? i KNOW humans do tend to resist change, even more so if what you were used to, worked well enough & had become second nature ?

    i will do this by using the ''don't read the manual'' approach because :
    1 - i have been using iTunes for maybe 5 years now, have nearly 10.000 albums/3TB of music & listen to music AT LEAST 4 hours everyday, which although it DOESN'T make me an expert of any kind, i still think it means i ( or anybody else for that matter.. ) shouldn't have TOO MUCH difficulty getting around, right ?
    2 - i think this is the ultimate test to confirm a software's intuitiveness, the extensive contact i've had with it notwhitstanding !

    i'll just skip connecting my iPhone while using it in fear it changes something when syncing - at least until i feel sure i PREFER this 11 over the 10.7 which i doubt for a couple of VERY fundamental reasons, more on that later..

    launched the app & OOOPS ! sorry !…. i accidentally clicked on the App Store icon !…LOL…how did i do that ? oh, ok…the iTunes icon now is in the same shape AND colors of the AppStore icon only not flat…..hum…
    is it still easy to change that ? let's source something easily distinguishable on the web shall we….
    OK, i'll use this one which while NOT perfect makes it easily distinguishable from the AppStore icon, retains the blue-ish tones i like, the familiar framed round shape + it contains the by now universal & ubiquitous ''play'' button symbol in most audio/video equipment in this planet
    i believe this will make it easy to ''automatically associate'' with media playing ? not perfect but for now it will do..

    1 - so i launch the app & oh !… the sidebar seems to be gone ? ah no, it's just hidden under ''View'' ! OUCH…i got a scare there, thought for a while my 12 genre playlist system - which took me ages to devise in order to make my 3TB of music easily manageable… - was gone
    it's as before although slightly better now but despite a few ''sprinkles'' here & there, the overall lack of color in the app's sidebar makes it look slightly anemic but hey, if that's what it takes for iTunes to work i can live with that…

    2 - tried clicking on the green dot to check out the mini player mode - it doesn't !?…. instead it ''fills up'' the Desktop, kind of a ''Full Screen mode'' which isn't really ? ok no probs...

    just noticed that next to the ''FullScreen'' button there's a new one to go to mini player - well…since clicking the green button by now had become TOTALLY automatic for me ( & who knows, most everybody else ?..) i fail to see the point besides being ONE MORE displayed design element + 1 more thing to ''unlearn''..
    does it bother me ? no ! but it bothers me having to contradict my acquired automatic tendency to click the green one so…i hope it was really necessary since it doesn't feel like ''streamlining'' to me, just change for the sake of change
    slightly confusing but again, if necessary for future users to make sense of it…

    3 - on to my music ….i can see we are back to the tried & thank goodness rejected (in)famous white background of yore & ''Albums'' seems to be the default ?
    OK, let's change the background color, from past experience i KNOW this album covers against white thing ''cooks my eyes'' after a while, reason why i hated it in the past when it was first introduced & thank goodness ''re-introduced'' back fast enough as a user's selectable choice, clearly showing users that Apple was listening - something i think is ALWAYS a good sign…

    OK, no way to change this in Preference pane either, maybe in the menu bar ? let's see…no, not there also, let's try Help…& no, not there as well….hum….we're back to ''stuck in white'' it seems

    if now when you select an album it can display the predominant colour on that cover ( & this is not considered bloat..) why not give users the possibility of choosing the background color as before ? it was already in place, right !?
    & i'm NOT even aiming sky high by wishing it to be a slider to go from white to black as in iPhoto, thus allowing users to set it just as they felt it worked best for them - did this feature ''bloat'' the app too much thus making the widespread Core Duo, C2D, i5's & i7's useless ?.. i mean after all i still have a gazillion ''View Options'' to select how i want my folders content to display so why not this ?

    album covers are now displayed about half the 2'' X 2'' size i CHOSE & am used to but still identifiable. on my 27'' iMac in full screen mode i get 11 horizontal rows X 5 & a half vertical rows….ok….my immediate feeling is like the name of that song by Steve Morse - ''Tumeny Notes'' !?
    let's change this …..ok, slider to adjust album cover size is gone, perhaps in the menu ? let's see….oh dear, just clicked on View Options & this puny little ''Windows XP type box'' with no rounded corners contrary to Apple's own app design suggestions to developers comes up ?
    as stated here : Loading…

    sorry guys but it looks pretty flat & boring in a cheap, cost cutting kind of way but... if Apple feels it DOESN'T detract from their reputation of good design, i can certainly live with that...

    talking of flat & boring what's with those ''Rewind'', ''Play'' & ''Fast Forward'' buttons on the apps toolbar anyway ? do they work better this way, hog less RAM or something ? spartan does come to mind, hope it's NOT the new take on ''luxurious'' for the near future & certainly another huge resource hog that needed dismissing to streamline the app....
    in use it proves irrelevant but, maybe some will prefer it !?…

    while checking the Prefs pane i get my first beach ball, on a SQUEAKY CLEAN Mountain Lion install which i LIKE A LOT… - surely an isolated incident.

    4 - moving on to the ''Artists'' tab, let's try to set this in grid view which is how i like my music displayed - makes it SO MUCH EASIER to go through my library otherwise it's ENDLESS, i mean Jimi Hendrix - 63 albums, Frank Zappa - 47 albums, Mozart - 195 albums just to quote a few !! you know what i mean ?
    Grid View seems to have disappeared as well the possibility to ''set default artwork'' by right clicking my mouse over an artist's ''stack'' of album covers - pity, it was for me a valued aid to easily identify some artists by means of album covers that i automatically associated with them at a glance - what can i do ?
    to me Jimi Hendrix will ALWAYS be synonymous with the cover of the very first LP i bought ( Rainbow Bridge )
    me & my ''designgraphic memory'', i'm sure it won't be of the least importance to most others since that's definitely NOT how the human brain works, right ?…
    well i looked EVERYWHERE & couldn't find Artists + Grid View - shame, these 1/4'' X 1/4'' icons don't work for me AT ALL since they are NOT big enough to be useful in identifying anything leaving me to do so by reading the title text

    this certainly removes a good deal of the pleasure i had browsing through my music + that list FEELS endless to scroll through - perhaps i have more music than iTunes is designed to handle & this will work fine for people with small 100 to 400GB music libraries ? yet it worked just fine until now

    the fundamental reasons for my overall dislike of it i mentioned earlier are these exactly : no grid view, the white background & no possibility of changing the size of the icons - this kills it for me.
    i'm sure others will love the white background, personally i don't AND deeply dislike how unbearably tired it makes my eyes feel after a good while using it - WAY TOO MUCH contrast for comfort in the long run & slightly incomprehensible since there WAS a choice before !?..

    5 - let's try ''Genres'' - it feels the same as before : 15 different Genres & yet much more difficult than my 12 Genre system ( for me, am NOT saying this is how others SHOULD do it..) next…

    6 - Radio - familiar enough, never used it except to see what it was all about when i got my first Mac, for those who do like radio it's OK i guess..

    7 - Songs - given the quantity of music i have this has always been useless to me yet it certainly doesn't make my life more difficult..

    8 - back to Artists which USED TO BE my familiar iTunes ''playground'', select Adrian Belew for example & it now displays the album cover of what's playing, i guess useful if in mini player mode, have EXCELLENT eyesight AND you don't know your music, loop & shuffle arrows which although i never used them before they don't upset me but the little arrow that took us to the album being played is gone - THAT'S a feature i DID use quite often
    on the app window in front of the Artist name a play button duplicates the toolbar play button ( overkill ?..or perhaps i'm just stubborn ) yet another shuffle arrows & a little arrow in a black circle which contains :
    - play next - i used my keyboard arrows for that thus saving me 1 click ( LOADS of them after a month, even MORE during a whole year or so, isn't that what efficiency/streamlining SHOULD BE all about ? )
    - ad up to next - kind of a playlist shortcut ? too early to comment on it's usefulness
    - add to playlists or my iPhone - personally i use click & drag ( still works..) but it doesn't make my use any more difficult

    all in all i could EASILY live WITHOUT these extra buttons since they are available elsewhere in the app's window..

    i DO LIKE THE ABSENCE OF LINES where the song's titles are, in albums containing more songs i also like them displayed side by side - makes for a more ''compact view'' while avoiding making it busy or excessively long. the songs duration in a muted gray IS a NICE touch again in avoiding unnecessary busy-ness/clutter

    i believe too many graphic elements detract & confuse instead of making things easier

    9 - on with Apps :

    same old only with my pet peeve white background - irrelevant since i don't use it much anyway... : get in there, update the app & get out

    10 - on to the iTunes Store..

    although i could see cover flow is gone from the music listening section ( again it was useless to me given my library's size but also didn't bother me or intrude..
    sorry i just have this thing about having choices so each one can tailor it to it's own preference.. ) it seems a version of it has been introduced in the Store's heading ?
    it's still irrelevant - when i go to the store i already know what i want but i can see how it might help sell more by suggesting things people might not have thought about - i can live with that

    considering i bought what ? maybe a dozen music albums in the last 5 or 6 years & downloaded perhaps 8 or 9 free apps for my iPhone in total - yup, i AM a cheapskate !!…LOL…i buy nothing i don't have a VERY definite use/need for & an old f*rt at using my iPhone 3GS : 93% of the time as a phone & maybe 3% as a GPS, 3% as an iPod, etc….
    + i'm not too keen on going online on such a small screen, only as a last resort - i HAVE done it & WAS VERY happy i could in those few instances i NEEDED to but i digress...
    so since i never used the store that much, i never developed any automatisms so i can't even say if anything is THAT different while it retains a familiar feel so, it's fine by me…

    11 - on to Purchased :

    as far as i can see it's as before - basic, familiar, never used it much..

    12 - Playlists :

    gone is the possibility of clicking on a playlist & have a separate window open - here's a change i regret since i did use that feature quite often
    also the blue stripe on the selected playlist also looks a bit more washed out than before ?
    what's with this apparent lack of color ? first Finder sidebar, then AppleMail, now this ? again does it consume resources, RAM ?
    i know i keep going on about color but as an artist i DO rely on color A LOT !!
    it helps me ''navigate'' through life enormously ( traffic signs anyone ? brand logos ?.. ) & it REALLY makes things A LOT easier for me to identify at a glance WITHOUT having to FOCUS or endlessly read text & in my use of a computer the same applies, just my 2 cents..

    13 - Menu bar :

    looks pretty much the same, i really can't tell since i never used most of it's features anyway :
    Genius, no Genius
    Equalizer has NEVER touched my music. my iMac being connected to a decent quality Hi-Fi via an equally apt Dac, i never felt the need for it specially since during the 40 or so years i have collected music, as a principle i never bought an album if it wasn't well recorded to start with…except for the occasional ''special interest album'' where a particularly good/unique performance by an artist/band/orchestra was recorded of course…

    i'm sure i will find a couple more things to like/dislike as i use it on my external boot drive. in my everyday environment the white background & the impossibility to change the size of the covers are a TOTAL DEAL BREAKER for me so i'll stick to version 10.7 as i have on my MacintoshHD
    if some of these changes are made possible GREAT, if not i suppose in time version10.7 will no longer ''keep up'' with the rest, my iPhone's usefulness might become compromised - that will only mean when time comes to change phones i'll have to look elsewhere even though i was considering an iPhone 5S or so..

    obviously the way i use iTunes ISN'T to everybody's taste or needs BUT, as long as i'm paying all of the 2000€ my computer cost me, i WILL insist, actually make that i WILL DEMAND i can tweak it to a certain extent, set it as i want it & think it suits me best - is that such an unreasonable proposition ?

    now if Apple or anybody else are up to start offering me a new computer every couple of years - my chosen time frame for replacing whatever it is i'm using.. - it can come set-up whichever way they see fit & then it will be up to me to accept it & use it or not
    that's another matter altogether but let's cross that bridge when we get there, shall we ?

    just a couple of photos to exemplify some of my points & do note that i find the 10.7 gray background IS a touch too dark . i MUCH PREFERRED it when a slider + lighter gray shade was available as in iPhoto :

    iTunes11 fullscreen - just way too many stamp sized album covers, maybe fine for small libraries but 3TB ? endless & feels like torture…

    the right ''column'' is quite clear, the sidebar same as before only better w/ that smidge of added color, but that central column ? endless to scroll through & ABSOLUTELY useless unless you stick to what 50, 100 artists ? i have roughly 1.300 so go ahead, try THAT & i'm sure you'll see what i mean....
    then we have my much preferred iTunes 10.7 - even though the shade of grey made available after first introducing a white background & eliminated the slider is too dark, it IS a LOT MORE restful for my eyes in the long run

    my preferred shade of gray being something like this as i have in iPhoto :

    6faa23a4_ScreenShot2012-12-07at14.00.06 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    as for the Mini Player - really ? why the flat buttons on it ? dropping it's ''tridimensional'' look/feel was perceived as better ?
    i particularly dislike the tiny ''x'' to close it & the little square below it, again very XP in feel & look which is TOTALLY the opposite of a software i would LUST FOR….more like something i couldn't care less about / am allergic to

    want REAL SIMPLE ? how about sticking to version ''B'' & add the album cover somewhere if you really must ?

    i have left out many things either because they are functions i rarely use or because their different implementation doesn't make them THAT MUCH different to use than before

    it PAINS ME that after i spent WEEKS & WEEKS & WEEKS of my life digitizing & loading thousands of LP's + CD's into iTunes, setting gorgeous art covers just the size i like them,'s all gone in the few minutes it took to install this new version !
    do i feel grateful ? indeed i do, so much so that i went back to 10.7 & as a 1st consequence, i WON'T be automatically updating any of my Apple softwares & will scrutinize them carefully before i do from now on - i truly can't be bothered to go through other ''downdates'' or being forced to have things displayed as someone i never met thinks i ought to..

    overall my conclusion is that iTunes has changed from the software equivalent of a nicely designed & most comfortably fitting custom tailored Armani ivory coloured piece of clothing ( even if slightly bloated in it's later incarnations.. ) to a no brand, off the rack, ill fitting one size fits all ( though no one too well.. ) latest /greatest/flavour of the month offering soon to be discarded when fashion changes in 3 weeks time, 2 months ?…. & the need to change for change's sake strikes again

    i'm sure the future hundreds of millions of iTunes users will have absolutely no problem learning it's new ways

    from where i sit this hardly qualifies as evolution as in betterment & DEFINITELY NOT up to Apple's usual standard of excellence & ''gorgeousness'' which Apple has gotten me used to over the years - what a pity

    thank you for your patience

  4. #19

    Bottom line: I'm not having any problems, nothing much has changed as far as I can see in terms of USABILITY. Day to day functionality is the same (listening to music, finding music, syncing iOS devices). IMO, people get super bent out of shape when Apple changes anything, but when they don't change things (iWork for example) people get super bent out of shape demanding Apple change it.

    95-99 percent of the stuff you did in the previous version is still there -- you probably just didn't take the time to try right-clicking a few things. Apple has moved a lot of less-used functions to right-clicks, but in all the (IMO) obvious places.

    The mini-player is HUGELY improved, I like the album reveal, I am VERY happy the sidebar is hidden (talk about a waste of screen space!) and the store looks fine. If there's something missing other than cover flow, I haven't noticed it. I think I was a little confused for about five minutes, tops.

  5. #20
    To iTunes 11 or Not to iTunes 11?

    Member Since
    Feb 22, 2008
    algarve in sunny southern Portugal,near the sea
    Your Mac's Specs
    intel 17'', 2Ghz I-Mac replaced under warranty by an alu 20'' iMac
    Rep Power
    even though i DIDN'T pay any attention, fact is it takes a whole 20 minutes to figure out where the ''new'' features are - after all there's only so many places where to click /right click on & be it 10.7 or 11, let's face it... it IS pretty BASIC software to use

    no problem there, specially if one likes lots of little boxes opening here, there & everywhere with repeat info/buttons/functions
    sorry, i HAVE been spoiled by Apple's usual EXCELLENCE in such matters & THEY themselves have made it hard to settle for average or even good..

    i'm glad you enjoy it & have no probs using your large music library with it, to me it just feels like either as too many stamps all over the Desktop or a phone book read with useless dots of colour on the side

    thank goodness there ARE a handful of people enjoying it throughout the handful of Mac user forums i follow - or maybe they are millions but don't bother to post their satisfaction being too busy basking in it's...what's the word ? usability ? perfection ? a mix of both/something else...

    i personally wish i was one of them, instead i see it as a missed opportunity to actually do something GREAT, to take it to a ''next level'' - after all isn't Apple master at the ''simple & pretty versus substance'' stakes ?
    as in : GarageBand vs Logic Pro, iPhoto vs Aperture, iMovie vs FinalCut Pro ? or are Apple missing something ?..

    all in all & as you state it brings nothing REALLY new in terms of functionalities, they're just somewhere else/presented differently, but hey.... it's ''brand new'' so in this day & age that's GOT to mean it's better, right ?....
    yup, that's exactly what i cal a change for change's sake..

  6. #21
    I updated to it, tried to stick it for a week, and downgraded back to 10.
    Had so many bugs when I was trying to copy songs and ringtones over to my iPhone.

    Instantly solved with the downgrade


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