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  1. #31
    Why I don't like the iPod
    y-guy's Avatar
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    Before I started using iTunes my music was a freakin mess. I now have 55GB of my music and its all easy to find, control and back up - no problems. In addition I have 109GB of movies. I can easily synch my iPod or iPhone with what I want when I want.

    I don't care to spend all day messing with things anymore, I just want it to work. I use iTunes and it does just that, it works.

  2. #32
    Why I don't like the iPod
    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by y-guy View Post
    Before I started using iTunes my music was a freakin mess. I now have 55GB of my music and its all easy to find, control and back up - no problems. In addition I have 109GB of movies. I can easily synch my iPod or iPhone with what I want when I want.

    I don't care to spend all day messing with things anymore, I just want it to work. I use iTunes and it does just that, it works.
    Who's fault exactly is it that your music folder is a mess ? Surely yours. I mean, even IF you're downloading music illegally, it's still easy to create folders for your music and manage them manually. Ok, so it's an extra little step, but would be the price you pay for grabbing individual songs from who knows where.

    I've never downloaded or bought music from iTunes so I'm not sure of how it arranges things that way.. but then, I've never been keen on paying money for a digital rip of something that has restrictions or limitations put on it. I prefer to purchase CD's or vinyl. Seems I'm old fashioned that way.

    But even if you're grabbing an album via bit torrent, it's never without a folder to contain the files. So how would things get that out of control, so to speak ?

    And no matter what has been said here in regards to managing iTunes manually, it's not fully functional, nor is it without flaw. iTunes still for some reason wants things tagged exactly the way it wants things to be (forgoing certain metadata that I KNOW works with every other single media player ever created), which would force me to use a program to mass tag everything, and it still doesn't have a watched folder option.

    Those two things manage to make iTunes an horrible experience for some people.. myself included, obviously. And not one person here can offer anything to say about that except for the obligatory " it works fine for me" mantra.

    Were it not for the iPhone and the non-ROCKbox-able iPod Touch *which is my wife's*, iTunes wouldn't see the light of day on my MacBook Pro(s).

    Doug

  3. #33
    Why I don't like the iPod
    y-guy's Avatar
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    Doug never grabbed anything off of bit, and never bought any thing with DRM. My collection comes from my CDs, and yes it was a mess from my days trying various other programs - my fault sure, but the fault that the other programs were not as easy to use as iTunes. I am not one that is AR about having everything in order, but I want to find the music and listen to it when I want and organize it via lists as I want. I can do all that in iTunes without a headache. Sorry you can't.

  4. #34
    Why I don't like the iPod
    clayneal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug b View Post

    Those two things manage to make iTunes an horrible experience for some people.. myself included, obviously. And not one person here can offer anything to say about that except for the obligatory " it works fine for me" mantra.

    Doug
    it is very clear from this and other posts that you are no fan of iTunes but it does just work for myself and most people I know.


    Clay
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  5. #35
    Why I don't like the iPod
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayneal View Post
    it is very clear from this and other posts that you are no fan of iTunes but it does just work for myself and most people I know.


    Clay
    Here too. Maybe I'm just not discerning enough of my music collection, but it does what I need it to do and I'm content with the way its organized and tagged. I don't use any odd formats like FLAC or OGG, so I guess that's part of it. I was irritated by the DRM, but since they went DRM free and I was able to upgrade most, if not all, of what I've bought to iTunes Plus, I can't complain. Although I will say that I'm annoyed with the Activation scheme and don't understand why its necessary now that they're supposedly all DRM free tracks.

    When I first started with digital music, I was used to to organizing my own folder and filename structure, but at some point I just let go and let iTunes do it (and consolidated my library too) and it's been smooth sailing ever since. I had a similar problem with my photo library and I finally just gave up and let iPhoto handle it, and I've never had a problem. Now, the only time I have any problems is when I'm trying to manage my photo library on my Windows machines with a combination of Picasa, Photoshop Elements 6 and also backing up onto my NAS. That can be confounding at times.
    Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!

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  6. #36
    Why I don't like the iPod
    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by y-guy View Post
    Doug never grabbed anything off of bit, and never bought any thing with DRM. My collection comes from my CDs, and yes it was a mess from my days trying various other programs - my fault sure, but the fault that the other programs were not as easy to use as iTunes. I am not one that is AR about having everything in order, but I want to find the music and listen to it when I want and organize it via lists as I want. I can do all that in iTunes without a headache. Sorry you can't.
    It's not that I can't do what you do with iTunes, just not perfectly the way I need to. Yes, I can have it organize with lists just as you do.. but there are just a lot of rogue albums which iTunes just doesn't want to play nicely with even though they're tagged properly. I'm also not sure of how "other programs" aren't as easy. Just about every program out there can and does sort like iTunes if you want it to.

    I manage my HD library manually, so for archiving purposes, it makes things a lot easier and I never have a "mess". Sure, I could go the whole copy music to iTunes folder and consolidate route, but that in its self is also a mess. I guess the thing is if you had taken the time to work out a method for sorting your things before you had so many folders and files, you would have been all set. But that's another story.

    I'm actually happy that iTunes does what you need it to do. More power to ye !

    Quote Originally Posted by clayneal View Post
    it is very clear from this and other posts that you are no fan of iTunes but it does just work for myself and most people I know.


    Clay
    Sure, sure.. I understand. But I think that I am always misunderstood when it comes to this issue. And the ONLY reason I ever post about it the way I do, is in case there are other users who are afraid to speak up about being in the same boat as I was, out of fear of being called an "anti-Apple troll" or an "hater" etc etc.. When this couldn't be further from the truth.

    While I might not agree with every practice Apple partakes in, I'm simply going to suck up the pride which goes along with the principle and use what suits me best. I said the same thing about Win and Linux. I haven't used Win for over 5 years and it's refreshing. I love mostly everything about OS X to be honest, except for a few things which I'm very vocal about. If that constitutes me being a troll, or an hater or an anti-Apple person, then I guess that's too bad for the closed minded souls who think that way.

    For all they know, I could own several hundred shares of APPL

    Again, I'm always happy when something works well for someone, even if it doesn't work for me, but I keep asking over and over why (even with video examples in other threads as you can find) I can't get it to work the way others say it does. All I'm ever met with is the "well whatever. .it works just fine for me and most people I know". Great, I get it.. I'm in the minority.

    Tell me something though, what is your personal import method ? What are the steps you go through, given the different ways in which music is generated or imported.

    I solely rely on my media player to watch the main "Music" folder for changes, and it adjusts the database as needed. If I rip a cd, the album folder goes directly into the bands child directory, set up directly by the ripper. The next time my media player opens, the music is already there, and no need to import anything. Tags are there, it's in order kazaam. iTunes has never been that straight forward for me.

    And to the main topic.. I find that iPods, interestingly enough are just fine when you manage importing the music manually. Ironic, eh ? I still kind of prefer file tree browsing, but don't care as much on the DAP side. Don't think I've used an iPod for a long while though. Still have my 30 gig Video but it's ROCKbox'd. As are both of my iRiver H 120/140's.

    Doug

  7. #37
    Why I don't like the iPod
    baggss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayneal View Post
    it is very clear from this and other posts that you are no fan of iTunes but it does just work for myself and most people I know.


    Clay
    Careful clay, you're being "close minded"...

  8. #38
    Why I don't like the iPod
    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
    Here too. Maybe I'm just not discerning enough of my music collection, but it does what I need it to do and I'm content with the way its organized and tagged. I don't use any odd formats like FLAC or OGG, so I guess that's part of it. I was irritated by the DRM, but since they went DRM free and I was able to upgrade most, if not all, of what I've bought to iTunes Plus, I can't complain. Although I will say that I'm annoyed with the Activation scheme and don't understand why its necessary now that they're supposedly all DRM free tracks.

    When I first started with digital music, I was used to to organizing my own folder and filename structure, but at some point I just let go and let iTunes do it (and consolidated my library too) and it's been smooth sailing ever since. I had a similar problem with my photo library and I finally just gave up and let iPhoto handle it, and I've never had a problem. Now, the only time I have any problems is when I'm trying to manage my photo library on my Windows machines with a combination of Picasa, Photoshop Elements 6 and also backing up onto my NAS. That can be confounding at times.
    We're definitely different in a lot of ways then. I have TONS of FLAC files. Why ? A lot are vinyl rips 24/96 and a lot are of concerts, some I've even been to. Ogg was once big on my priority list (not much anymore) as well, and my main DAP was an iRiver IHP 120 which I use with ROCKbox hooked up to my very decent 2 channel hi-fi via optical, so sound quality was always a high priority. I also used to have very decent desktop near field studio monitors which were very revealing.

    All of this was well before my fore into the Mac world, so I'm not about to just ditch my very large collection and start from scratch with ALAC files. No sir.

    As for the organizing thing.. I just don't get why I'd change what is already perfect for me in the sense that I don't even have to do anything. I rip a cd, it goes into a folder automatically (as set in the ripping process) I open my media player and the music is there. No consolidating, no copying and having to delete any original or redundant file.. Not even clicking a button in a menu and hitting import .. None of it.

    But.. I digress, again. We all use what works for us, and I guess I'm just an advocate for those whom might not have as easy a time as you good folk do with iTunes. I know I'm not the only one... I've seeeeen the posts out there. (well, maybe not here.. but as I've been told.. what would you expect on an biased forum? You can call me the evil kenevil of the Mac Forums. )

    Doug

  9. #39
    Why I don't like the iPod
    cwa107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug b View Post
    We're definitely different in a lot of ways then. I have TONS of FLAC files. Why ? A lot are vinyl rips 24/96 and a lot are of concerts, some I've even been to. Ogg was once big on my priority list (not much anymore) as well, and my main DAP was an iRiver IHP 120 which I use with ROCKbox hooked up to my very decent 2 channel hi-fi via optical, so sound quality was always a high priority. I also used to have very decent desktop near field studio monitors which were very revealing.
    Yeah, that explains it for me. When I started out, I had about 250 CDs that I ripped using RealPlayer Jukebox (or something like that, can't remember). But none of it was out of the ordinary. Then, I brought it into MusicMatch because I had just bought a Dell DJ.

    I don't have anything like concert recordings or analog rips, everything was basically CDs and stuff I had downloaded from Napster back before the hammer came down on it.

    I'm also not an "audiophile", I suppose. I have never listened to a 128K MP3 and thought it sounded bad. I do recognize the differences in some high end speakers, but I guess I don't really derive the kind of pleasure some folks must do in listening to pristine recordings (not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't "appreciate" it the way some others seem to - maybe I'm not wired that way, I don't know).

    I do enjoy picking up on some of the nuisances of a Pink Floyd album played on a really good stereo on occasion, but most of my listening is limited to my car - and for that purpose, my iPod that is most loaded with AAC and MP3 rips does the job fine for my tastes.

    Rarely do I sit down in front of my computer to listen to music and I don't own a Hi-Fi stereo system of any sort.

    All of this was well before my fore into the Mac world, so I'm not about to just ditch my very large collection and start from scratch with ALAC files. No sir.

    As for the organizing thing.. I just don't get why I'd change what is already perfect for me in the sense that I don't even have to do anything. I rip a cd, it goes into a folder automatically (as set in the ripping process) I open my media player and the music is there. No consolidating, no copying and having to delete any original or redundant file.. Not even clicking a button in a menu and hitting import .. None of it.
    I guess the iTunes window provides me with the information I'm wanting about my library. Rarely do I venture into the File/Folder level to inspect the individual files or the way they're organized. I let iTunes handle that and call it a day. I'm just not that picky. As long as I can find my tracks easily, I'm happy. I could care less about the organizational structure. Maybe that would change if I used multiple library managers, but I have not been discontent with iTunes.

    If I rip a disc, I just do it in iTunes and let it handle the storage. If I download something (say from Amazon MP3), I drop it into iTunes. iTunes is NOT my default application for music files, since I don't always want it to import the track in the event I just want to listen to something quickly. I actually use VLC player or Quick Look if I'm not sure I want it as part of my library.

    In the odd event I rip something that iTunes can't tag, I generally let TuneUp analyze it and it's never failed me.

    But.. I digress, again. We all use what works for us, and I guess I'm just an advocate for those whom might not have as easy a time as you good folk do with iTunes. I know I'm not the only one... I've seeeeen the posts out there. (well, maybe not here.. but as I've been told.. what would you expect on an biased forum? You can call me the evil kenevil of the Mac Forums. )

    Doug
    Nothing wrong with that IMHO. Different strokes for different folks, so they say...
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  10. #40
    Why I don't like the iPod
    clayneal's Avatar
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    Doug , thanx for taking time to defend your position. Having read it I guess you are perhaps misunderstood. I see that we do differ a great deal in not only our musical tastes but our approach to organization.
    As a dinosaur I find the music I listen to doesn't care a bit how it's preserved. Lol my collection is only 40 gigs or so and is split down the middle with classic country and OLD blues. Most never even recorded in stereo ! So it just doesn't matter how much make up I put on it....it's still a pig.

    As for importing my music I just let iTunes do with it as it may then I go find the artwork and import that ! So yes I do see some of the flaws in iTunes but I guess I have never seen anything else that worked so easy for me.

    Don't get me wrong I enjoy the spirted debate that your ( and my ) posts have caused and that is all part of the freedom we all have so let us not seek to end it but learn from one another.

    Clay
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  11. #41
    Why I don't like the iPod
    clayneal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggss View Post
    Careful clay, you're being "close minded"...
    lol I do have to learn to watch that.
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  12. #42
    Why I don't like the iPod

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    [QUOTE=
    iTunes. I can't stand being forced to use a piece of software I don't like. I have never liked the way it organizes the music. I seeked a player that would allow me to use whatever I wanted.
    [/QUOTE]

    That's why in its' preferences (options for windows users) you can uncheck "keep iTunes Music folder organized"(which effectively does weird stuff to compilaions,as I like to keep albums in one folder). This is the first thing I do when using a new version of iTunes. Then you're set up to organize your music to your hearts content.
    [SIGPIC]

  13. #43
    Why I don't like the iPod
    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayneal View Post
    Doug , thanx for taking time to defend your position. Having read it I guess you are perhaps misunderstood. I see that we do differ a great deal in not only our musical tastes but our approach to organization.
    As a dinosaur I find the music I listen to doesn't care a bit how it's preserved. Lol my collection is only 40 gigs or so and is split down the middle with classic country and OLD blues. Most never even recorded in stereo ! So it just doesn't matter how much make up I put on it....it's still a pig.

    As for importing my music I just let iTunes do with it as it may then I go find the artwork and import that ! So yes I do see some of the flaws in iTunes but I guess I have never seen anything else that worked so easy for me.

    Don't get me wrong I enjoy the spirted debate that your ( and my ) posts have caused and that is all part of the freedom we all have so let us not seek to end it but learn from one another.

    Clay
    Not too sure our musical tastes are all that different. I'm a guitarist (and play a bit of piano) who's influences are that of guys like Howlin' Wolf, Charlie Christian, Muddy, B.B., T-Bone Walker, Otis Rush etc.. Country on the other hand, I just can't get into so much. But I love Junior Brown.. his style is awesome and his playing equally so.

    Doug

  14. #44
    Why I don't like the iPod

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    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    ...Third, reliable? Define reliability. It's easier for me to step on a CD and break it compared to a HD that is either in my MB or on my desk in an enclosure. Sure, you may have to replace a HD more often than you do a CD but at least HD's are easier to find (especially if you consider replacing an old record) and, as illustrated earlier, the costs of buying a replacement would still be worth it if you take into account the cost/song calculation.
    I think that poster meant that in 70 years a (STAMPED not burned) physical CD will still play, compared to a hard drive which likely won't spin up. Of course, that presumes you take good care of your disc, which just boils down to being careful instead of careless as so many people are with their discs. I'm also presuming some kind of hardware will still be around to play the discs on. We don't really know the longevity of copying files from HDD to HDD every few years. Sometimes the original file is just corrupt and you have to hope your EXTRA backups of that file aren't.

    So we should do like one group and print representations of digital files onto archival paper. Then our great-to-the-100th-generation descendants could still enjoy such classic music as Motorhead singing "Love Me Like A Reptile" ;-)

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