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  1. #16
    iPhone as a wifi device
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math (Pauses to remove shoes so the toes can be used as well as the fingers. Muttering, "carry the two, that makes...) all 50 should take about 9GB or so. If you can find one with more storage, that would give more breathing room, but I suspect that even the 16 can fit in the app and all 50 states. (assuming, of course, you want to drive to Hawaii.)
    Jake

  2. #17
    iPhone as a wifi device

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math (Pauses to remove shoes so the toes can be used as well as the fingers. Muttering, "carry the two, that makes...) all 50 should take about 9GB or so. If you can find one with more storage, that would give more breathing room, but I suspect that even the 16 can fit in the app and all 50 states. (assuming, of course, you want to drive to Hawaii.)


    No current plans to drive to Hawaii, but I have been thinking about Alaska, and that means that I would have to add some of the Canadian Western Provinces as well as some of the northern states like Wyoming and Montana.

    It is unlikely that I would actually want to drive back to the eastern US, especially the North East, as that is where I originally lived before I moved to the west and its open spaces, so I probably don't need any of those states both east of the Mississippi and North of Virginia, but everything else is probably a possibility.

    Interestingly enough there is not much difference between the cost of memory in an old iPhone. A check on Amazon for used iPhones shows about a $20 difference between 16GB and 32GB, so probably better to be safe than sorry.

  3. #18
    iPhone as a wifi device
    pm-r's Avatar
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    Well, that's 8 states out of 50, so doing some math ...

    But don't forget to calculate that some states have much fewer roads and miles than some others:

    Road Miles by State:
    Road Miles by State--A chart of states and number of road miles | Cubit's Blog

    For comparison, I would think they would easily fit onto a 16 gig iDevice especially considering the full Marine navigation charts for North America and Canada coasts and lakes I used and with depth soundings and much more details etc easily fit onto my 16GB iPad 2.


    - Patrick
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  4. #19
    iPhone as a wifi device

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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    For comparison, I would think they would easily fit onto a 16 gig iDevice especially considering the full Marine navigation charts for North America and Canada coasts and lakes I used and with depth soundings and much more details etc easily fit onto my 16GB iPad 2.
    Perhaps, but how much space is actually left over on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and included apps are used? I don't know the answer to that myself.

  5. #20
    iPhone as a wifi device
    chscag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    Perhaps, but how much space is actually left over on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and included apps are used? I don't know the answer to that myself.
    A 16GB iPhone isn't really 16GB to begin with. It's actually closer to around 14.5GB in true measurement. After loading iOS and basic apps that come with the phone, you'll have around 12GB of space for music. I'm currently using an iPhone 8 that's advertised as 64GB. When I look at its true space, it shows as 59.6GB, and that's without iOS and the Apple apps.

    I would think you need at least a phone with 32GB of advertised storage. That will probably amount to around 29GB after iOS and apps.

  6. #21
    iPhone as a wifi device
    pm-r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    Perhaps, but how much space is actually left over on a 16GB iPhone after the OS and included apps are used? I don't know the answer to that myself.

    It seems, at least according to this article, a normal iOS and its apps install is going to take up roughly 4 to 6 GB assuming my math is correct.

    The amount of SPACE AVAILABLE is shown for different iDevices and a typical iOS install:
    iOS 10 reviewed: There’s no reason not to update | Ars Technica

    I would think that would leave you lots of room for your maps and projects. And especially so considering it wouldn't even be your normally used device but should still work as a backup if you really needed it.



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  7. #22
    iPhone as a wifi device
    chscag's Avatar
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    It seems, at least according to this article, a normal iOS and its apps install is going to take up roughly 4 to 6 GB assuming my math is correct.
    Actually, you're right on Patrick. See my reply to Mike above yours.

  8. #23
    iPhone as a wifi device
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    But don't forget to calculate that some states have much fewer roads and miles than some others:

    Road Miles by State:
    Road Miles by State--A chart of states and number of road miles | Cubit's Blog

    For comparison, I would think they would easily fit onto a 16 gig iDevice especially considering the full Marine navigation charts for North America and Canada coasts and lakes I used and with depth soundings and much more details etc easily fit onto my 16GB iPad 2.


    - Patrick
    ======
    True, Patrick, but he already has California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado, Louisiana and Utah. Those add up to just over 1.9Million miles, or 21% of the total on that page. So 8/50 = 16%, but he already has 21% so, again doing the math, the other 79% should take no more than 7.2 Meg, for a total of 8.7 Meg. I still think 16GB should work, but more is obviously better and if the more only costs $20, it's probably worth it.
    Jake

  9. #24
    iPhone as a wifi device
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    I have been thinking about buying a used iPhone, perhaps a 6 or 7, to use as a navigation device for Waze and/or Google Maps. My idea is to not activate it on a cell network but use it, via my cell hot spot, to run the nav software through my vehicle's display. I have a Ford Sync 3 system which interfaces with the CarPlay app on the phone, or at least does so with my wife's iPhone.

    I don't want to add it to my Verizon plan because I don't plan to use it as a phone, only for the nav stuff, and I was wondering if I could do that without adding a SIM card to the phone. That is, buy a used iPhone without a sim and without activating it and just connect it to the hot spot and, via a usb cable, to my vehicles Sync 3 system. Is there any reason that an iPhone without a sim and without activation would not work as a network device?
    As has already been pointed out, an iPhone absolutely can work without a SIM card over Wi-Fi, although it may need to be carrier unlocked to do so. I don't know about GPS accuracy over wi-fi, but I have an iPhone 5s that I can do a brief test with when I get a chance if that helps. (EDIT: I was replying on the assumption you wanted to connect the new iDevice to a hotspot, but on re-reading that was what another member mentioned. Do you intend to be wholly offline, or connect to a hotspot running on your regular phone?)

    Something else to consider when picking which model to go with.... iOS 13 has some very nice enhancements coming to CarPlay, one of which is split-screen mode to have navigation on one half of the screen, the other half showing music playback controls with the name of the song playing, as well some useful notifications. In my case, while iOS has had "Do No Disturb while driving" available for a couple years, it didn't work for me on my Pioneer unit until now (I'm on the beta version of iOS 13). At the moment, only Apple Maps is available in the split screen mode, but I don't know if that's just a matter of updates needed from 3rd parties to their own apps or what. Anyway, if you believe you will want these new features, you'll need an iPhone that supports iOS 13, which is the iPhone SE and the 6s onwards. The new features do work on Ford's Sync 3 system (my wife's car has that).
    Last edited by Lifeisabeach; 08-07-2019 at 03:19 PM.

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  10. #25
    iPhone as a wifi device

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach View Post
    As has already been pointed out, an iPhone absolutely can work without a SIM card over Wi-Fi, although it may need to be carrier unlocked to do so. I don't know about GPS accuracy over wi-fi, but I have an iPhone 5s that I can do a brief test with when I get a chance if that helps. (EDIT: I was replying on the assumption you wanted to connect the new iDevice to a hotspot, but on re-reading that was what another member mentioned. Do you intend to be wholly offline, or connect to a hotspot running on your regular phone?)

    Something else to consider when picking which model to go with.... iOS 13 has some very nice enhancements coming to CarPlay, one of which is split-screen mode to have navigation on one half of the screen, the other half showing music playback controls with the name of the song playing, as well some useful notifications. In my case, while iOS has had "Do No Disturb while driving" available for a couple years, it didn't work for me on my Pioneer unit until now (I'm on the beta version of iOS 13). At the moment, only Apple Maps is available in the split screen mode, but I don't know if that's just a matter of updates needed from 3rd parties to their own apps or what. Anyway, if you believe you will want these new features, you'll need an iPhone that supports iOS 13, which is the iPhone SE and the 6s onwards. The new features do work on Ford's Sync 3 system (my wife's car has that).
    Good to know. Thank you.

    I travel with a Verizon hot spot that I have been using for my laptop, but which I would also use for any iPhone that I bought to use as a nav system. While I would buy an unlocked phone I do not believe that it would have to be unlocked to use wifi, regardless of the source of the wifi. In this case it is a Verizon hot spot but I assume wifi is generic and any device can connect to it, assuming it is wifi compatible.

    Since my carrier is Verizon I might make the point of buying a Verizon compatible (ie, CDMA) phone, but perhaps not since I have no plans to use the phone as anything other than a nav device and no plans to get internet any way other than wifi. In any case, even if I bought a CDMA compatible phone, it would not be compatible with today's Verizon 4G LTE signal and if I wanted to make sure the phone was compatible to both signals I think I would have to look at something like an Verizon iPhone 7, and thus the cost starts to increase. We have our normal phones (an iPhone 8 Plus and a Samsung S10 Plus) so I don't really see the point of getting another compatible phone.

    It is good to know that there is a split-screen view available, but I do not think I would need it since I do not listen to music when I travel. Typically my wife and I are talking and, if we are not, then I listen to a book from Audible.com, and that is on my regular phone. I just plug some ear buds in and play the book. I might be able to do that through CarPlay but don't really see how that is any advantage. The more functionality I need from the nav device the more modern (and faster) a phone I would probably need.

  11. #26
    iPhone as a wifi device

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    if the more only costs $20, it's probably worth it.
    I agree with your math, although I may have to add maps from Canada as well, and 16GB might well be enough. Still, there is something to the old saw about never having too much memory. Fortunately the cost of adding memory to an older iPhone like the 6 is so low that it generally feels worth it. 32GB would certainly make me feel more comfortable although I do not see the need for 64GB.

    One of the truly annoying things about the iPhone is the inability to add flash memory to it. I am sure Apple is selling more memory because of that restriction, and they seem to understand the marketing.

  12. #27
    iPhone as a wifi device
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    Out of curiosity I called AppleCare and asked for technical support for the iPhone. I asked the "techie" if a used iPhone could be used as a wifi device without a SIM card or with an inactive SIM card, and she put me on hold, clearly indicating that she did not know the answer. After a couple of minutes she came back and told me that if the iPhone did not have a SIM card, or if the SIM card was inactive, then it could NOT be used even as a wifi device, and I find that hard to believe.
    Not saying there aren't folks at Apple that wouldn't know the true answer to this question. But as can be seen...maybe when the "average" customer service person is hit with an unusual question...and they do some sort of "off-line pow-wow" with nearby co-workers in other cubicles...the response they give the customer may not always be correct.

    Logically...an iPhone without a SIM card is basically an iPod touch (first released in 2007 and still being sold). These iPod touches have a very similar 3.5" to 4.0" "touch" display just like iPhones up to the iPhone 5s & iPhone SE.

    - Nick

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  13. #28
    iPhone as a wifi device
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Alright, so here is what I can confirm. I set up an old iPhone 5s to navigate to work using Apple Maps, then turned wi-fi and bluetooth off before plugging it into my Pioneer head unit. I have no SIM card in it so I was 100% off the grid. I only have a 10 minute drive to work, so Maps was able to preload my route and streets in the general area. As I was driving, the map display remained quite accurate with voice-over directions working until I strayed off route to get coffee. The roads for the area were still loaded and Maps continued to show my correct GPS location even off route. Once I was back on route, the directions resumed.

    So, given my limited trial, I think you can expect pretty good GPS accuracy with at least an iPhone 5s and newer even if you aren’t connected to a hotspot.

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  14. #29
    iPhone as a wifi device

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach View Post
    Alright, so here is what I can confirm. I set up an old iPhone 5s to navigate to work using Apple Maps, then turned wi-fi and bluetooth off before plugging it into my Pioneer head unit. I have no SIM card in it so I was 100% off the grid. I only have a 10 minute drive to work, so Maps was able to preload my route and streets in the general area. As I was driving, the map display remained quite accurate with voice-over directions working until I strayed off route to get coffee. The roads for the area were still loaded and Maps continued to show my correct GPS location even off route. Once I was back on route, the directions resumed.

    So, given my limited trial, I think you can expect pretty good GPS accuracy with at least an iPhone 5s and newer even if you aren’t connected to a hotspot.
    I think that would be true for any off-network navigation system. I have Sygic loaded and will test it as well, but you do need some connectivity for nav systems like Google Maps and Waze. What I found was that if there was no cell connectivity (we were in an area with no cell service so the hot spot had no signal) Waze could not plan any routing. It just sat there spinning trying to get a signal. Once it has a signal it can follow it without service, but it can not route (or re-route) without one.

    Sygic, which is off-network, is probably different, as is Apple Maps. I will try both when we make our next trip. The real question will be if any of the off-network systems (other than Apple Maps) will work through CarPlay as I would like to have a large enough display to actually see the routing. I currently have no idea if CarPlay will even display the Sygic nav software.

  15. #30
    iPhone as a wifi device
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    I think that would be true for any off-network navigation system. I have Sygic loaded and will test it as well, but you do need some connectivity for nav systems like Google Maps and Waze. What I found was that if there was no cell connectivity (we were in an area with no cell service so the hot spot had no signal) Waze could not plan any routing. It just sat there spinning trying to get a signal. Once it has a signal it can follow it without service, but it can not route (or re-route) without one.

    Sygic, which is off-network, is probably different, as is Apple Maps. I will try both when we make our next trip. The real question will be if any of the off-network systems (other than Apple Maps) will work through CarPlay as I would like to have a large enough display to actually see the routing. I currently have no idea if CarPlay will even display the Sygic nav software.
    Yes, since Sygic already self-contains all the map data, it should work perfectly fine when off-network. Also, according to their website, Sygic works with CarPlay (iOS 12 and higher required). They also tout their app as being the first "offline" navigation app for CarPlay, so yeah, you should be good to go!

    Sygic Confirms Apple CarPlay Connectivity as the First Offline Navigation App - Sygic | Bringing life to maps
    Apple Carplay - Sygic | Bringing life to maps

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