Please visit the new Mac-Forums Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/macforums1




Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 56
  1. #31
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    You don't have to hope, Patrick. That's how it works. I have four trusted devices (MBP,  Watch, iPad and iPhone) and when I try to invoke AppleID, all of them get the code. It's kind of funny to listen to the four of them all beeping with the notification that the code has arrived!
    Jake

  2. #32
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    dtravis7's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 04, 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    30,088
    Your Mac's Specs
    iMac late 2012 21.5 i5 10:14. iMac 2010 27"QuadI7 OS10.13, MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhone7
    Rep Power
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    You don't have to hope, Patrick. That's how it works. I have four trusted devices (MBP,  Watch, iPad and iPhone) and when I try to invoke AppleID, all of them get the code. It's kind of funny to listen to the four of them all beeping with the notification that the code has arrived!
    Jake, I 100% agree with your explanation of 2Fa. I quite like it and the security it provides.

  3. #33
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    Rod's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia and Ubud, Bali, Indonesia
    Posts
    5,055
    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Pro Retina 13" macOSX 10.13.3 beta
    Rep Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    You don't have to hope, Patrick. That's how it works. I have four trusted devices (MBP,  Watch, iPad and iPhone) and when I try to invoke AppleID, all of them get the code. It's kind of funny to listen to the four of them all beeping with the notification that the code has arrived!
    I dont believe you can make an Apple Watch a trusted device. There is no Find My Watch although I wish there was. I guess your watch mirrors your phone notifications.


    Sent from my iPhone
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  4. #34
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    Rod's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia and Ubud, Bali, Indonesia
    Posts
    5,055
    Your Mac's Specs
    MacBook Pro Retina 13" macOSX 10.13.3 beta
    Rep Power
    14
    Ah, Ill have to correct myself there, I just found this: Allthough theres no option to ping your Apple Watch like you can with your iPhone. ... Specifically you can go to the Watch App on your iPhone, choose your Apple Watch, then press the little i button and then find my Apple Watch. This will take you directly into the find iPhone app and search for your Apple Watch.Mar 16, 2018


    Sent from my iPhone
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  5. #35
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    iggibar's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    4,208
    Your Mac's Specs
    yeahhhh...might need to look at my signature
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Iggi, it only comes to the computer if you have Messages running on them and have given the account information from there to Apple. Basically, logging into AppleID on the computer. And changing the telephone number is certainly a hugely confounding factor for you. Glad you were able to get it all sorted out in the end. I find 2FA works pretty well, but I haven't change anything critical recently. I did reinstall OSX/macOS on a 2011 MBP recently, starting out with an Internet recovery back to the original OS and working forward to HS. I got notices that a "new" device wanted to use my AppleID, which I had to authorize and send a code to allow. I don't know if Messages would work if you gave them the email address at iCloud but your phone number was changed. I think the connection is more to the number, but I could be wrong about that. I guess the lesson is, don't change the number unless you ABSOLUTELY have to.
    From my understanding of 2FA, it works best for people who do not change their products for a long time, or those who have only a couple of devices. I have many of everything, and usually go through 2 phones a year. Last year was a fluke because I also changed carriers and decided to get a new number. And it was worse because Apple's messaging system hijacks your phone number when switching between Android and Apple phones, and the only way to fix it is to dissociate your number from the Apple account. I had many things go wrong that put me in a lock. That was the mistake, and to be honest, it's a mistake that is so easily made and forgotten because sometimes people just forget how integrated some safety features are when they constantly run in the background and you never deal with them. Apple places too much trust on someone's phone number. 2FA is well suited for some, but not everyone. That's why I truly believe 2FA should be completely optional, and not something that is crammed down your throat. For some that say use 2FA so you can get rid of the notification, it is the same thing as saying pay extra for AppleCare because your keyboard is going to mess up. No, you shouldn't have to pay extra for a faulty product. That's not a fix to the problem. That's what you call a bandaid.

    That's my thought anyway.
    3.0GHz 10x Mac Pro 6.13.46GHz 6x Mac Pro 5.12.66GHz 4x Mac Pro 4.12.2GHz i7 15" MBP 15.12.3GHz i7 15" MBP 11.32.8GHz i7 13" MBP 11.12.66Ghz i7 15"MBP 6.22.4GHz 15" MBP 5.12.4GHz 13" MBP 7.1

  6. #36
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sprague View Post
    I don’t believe you can make an Apple Watch a trusted device. There is no Find My Watch although I wish there was. I guess your watch mirrors your phone notifications.


    Sent from my iPhone
    Rod, I think you are correct that it mirrors your iPhone to which it is paired. Nevertheless, it joins the chorus of tones when the code arrives!
    Jake

  7. #37
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by iggibar View Post
    From my understanding of 2FA, it works best for people who do not change their products for a long time, or those who have only a couple of devices. I have many of everything, and usually go through 2 phones a year. Last year was a fluke because I also changed carriers and decided to get a new number. And it was worse because Apple's messaging system hijacks your phone number when switching between Android and Apple phones, and the only way to fix it is to dissociate your number from the Apple account. I had many things go wrong that put me in a lock. That was the mistake, and to be honest, it's a mistake that is so easily made and forgotten because sometimes people just forget how integrated some safety features are when they constantly run in the background and you never deal with them. Apple places too much trust on someone's phone number. 2FA is well suited for some, but not everyone. That's why I truly believe 2FA should be completely optional, and not something that is crammed down your throat. For some that say use 2FA so you can get rid of the notification, it is the same thing as saying pay extra for AppleCare because your keyboard is going to mess up. No, you shouldn't have to pay extra for a faulty product. That's not a fix to the problem. That's what you call a bandaid.

    That's my thought anyway.
    Iggi, I don't know your definition of "many of everything" but I have two MBPs, an iMac, two iPads, 4 AppleTV, an  Watch and two iPhones. My wife has an iPad, MBP, Mini and another Apple TV in her office. Is that "many of everything?" If so, 2FA works well for us in that environment.

    Apple doesn't "hijack" your phone number, it simply associates the number with your Apple ID when you get an iPhone. That association is necessary for Messenger to work properly and is easily undone when/if you change iPhones. If that is "hijacking" then Verizon/ATT/T-Mobile/Whatever "hijacks" your number when you move to them for service.

    I get a new iPhone every year and go through the process of disassociating my phone before I swap it out. Apple has good articles on how to do that: Sell or give away your iPhone - Apple Support I would think that if you get two phones a year you would remember what you have to do to make that work well. Most of the users of phones hold on to them much longer, so they are the ones more likely to forget.

    "Too much trust" is just the trust you need to have, not more or less. To get messages, they have to have your number, that's how the SMS/Messaging system is set up. Not an Apple design, just how the system works. And unlike AppleCare, which is an additional cost for the coverage, 2FA is absolutely free, so it's not at all the same. And 2FA is not faulty just because it doesn't work the way you want it to. It works as designed. You can opt out, but if you opt in, you only have two weeks to change your mind. At least you have two weeks--I've seen some things where in is in, out is out and you can never change once the decision is made.

    I understand you don't like 2FA, and that's your option. But Apple has been burned by lawsuits before (when the system was allegedly "breached" by the phishing event I mentioned earlier) and is going to continue to remind you to use 2FA when you invoke any AppleID function. I'm sure a lawyer suggested that as some legal protection, but it's also good advice. 2FA is not "crammed down your throat" any more than your car crams down your throat the suggestion to fasten your seat belt when you turn it on. It's a safety/security feature you SHOULD use, so it is suggested to you each time. Don't want it? Then don't use it. But like your car reminding you every time, Apple will also remind you every time.
    Jake

  8. #38
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    iggibar's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    4,208
    Your Mac's Specs
    yeahhhh...might need to look at my signature
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Iggi, I don't know your definition of "many of everything" but I have two MBPs, an iMac, two iPads, 4 AppleTV, an  Watch and two iPhones. My wife has an iPad, MBP, Mini and another Apple TV in her office. Is that "many of everything?" If so, 2FA works well for us in that environment.

    Apple doesn't "hijack" your phone number, it simply associates the number with your Apple ID when you get an iPhone. That association is necessary for Messenger to work properly and is easily undone when/if you change iPhones. If that is "hijacking" then Verizon/ATT/T-Mobile/Whatever "hijacks" your number when you move to them for service.

    I get a new iPhone every year and go through the process of disassociating my phone before I swap it out. Apple has good articles on how to do that: Sell or give away your iPhone - Apple Support I would think that if you get two phones a year you would remember what you have to do to make that work well. Most of the users of phones hold on to them much longer, so they are the ones more likely to forget.

    "Too much trust" is just the trust you need to have, not more or less. To get messages, they have to have your number, that's how the SMS/Messaging system is set up. Not an Apple design, just how the system works. And unlike AppleCare, which is an additional cost for the coverage, 2FA is absolutely free, so it's not at all the same. And 2FA is not faulty just because it doesn't work the way you want it to. It works as designed. You can opt out, but if you opt in, you only have two weeks to change your mind. At least you have two weeks--I've seen some things where in is in, out is out and you can never change once the decision is made.

    I understand you don't like 2FA, and that's your option. But Apple has been burned by lawsuits before (when the system was allegedly "breached" by the phishing event I mentioned earlier) and is going to continue to remind you to use 2FA when you invoke any AppleID function. I'm sure a lawyer suggested that as some legal protection, but it's also good advice. 2FA is not "crammed down your throat" any more than your car crams down your throat the suggestion to fasten your seat belt when you turn it on. It's a safety/security feature you SHOULD use, so it is suggested to you each time. Don't want it? Then don't use it. But like your car reminding you every time, Apple will also remind you every time.

    So, you're trying to argue something in hopes of changing my thoughts on it or something? I don't think in absolute terms. No black or white. I don't need bias reasoning for everything Apple. It is what it is.

    As for the hijacking issue, there's plenty of articles on it where Apple hijacks your texts, and prevents them from being delivered even if you no longer have that number associated with an Apple account. I shouldn't even need to describe it. It's been an issue since iMessage first came out, and still happens. I only brought it because it occurred to me during that time I was having problems with 2FA. Didn't think it was going to be an issue mentioning it... and honestly, your beliefs do nothing to people who have problems with it.
    3.0GHz 10x Mac Pro 6.13.46GHz 6x Mac Pro 5.12.66GHz 4x Mac Pro 4.12.2GHz i7 15" MBP 15.12.3GHz i7 15" MBP 11.32.8GHz i7 13" MBP 11.12.66Ghz i7 15"MBP 6.22.4GHz 15" MBP 5.12.4GHz 13" MBP 7.1

  9. #39
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Nope, I frankly don't care what you believe. I stated facts, just to keep the record straight. We disagree. That's how the world works. Go in peace.
    Jake

  10. #40
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Just for the record, I looked up the issue with Messages not being sent that you said,
    As for the hijacking issue, there's plenty of articles on it where Apple hijacks your texts, and prevents them from being delivered even if you no longer have that number associated with an Apple account. I shouldn't even need to describe it. It's been an issue since iMessage first came out, and still happens.
    Here are the facts: In May, 2014, Apple was sued over the issue that if a user switched from an Apple device to a non-Apple device, messages coming to them from Apple phones with iMessage were not being delivered. In November, 2014, Apple addressed the problem by providing both clear directions and a tool to de-register the number and the court dismissed the case in Apple's favor. These are the two current Apple articles on the subject:
    Deregister and Turn Off iMessage - Apple Support
    If you can’t receive text messages from an iPhone - Apple Support

    So, it's not a current issue, if you follow the instructions to de-register your phone. If it "still happens" it's because the user didn't de-register the phone. It's a bit like changing addresses and not telling anybody about the change. One cannot then complain that the Post Office isn't delivering mail that was sent to the old address to the new address. The mover didn't tell them things changed.

    Now I'm not saying, and I never have, that Apple is perfect, or does everything right. Their errors are there, and some are spectacular. GPUs, screen issues, keyboards, bent iPads, the most recent security update to Mojave, etc. But just because someone doesn't like something doesn't make it "wrong."

    2FA as implemented by Apple is not bad. I run into 2FA everywhere--my bank, credit union, doctor, financial advisor, mutual fund, even my phone company. And all of them work about the same as Apple's. I get a code on my registered phone that has to be entered into the system to prove I'm me. And they did more to "jam it down my throat" than Apple. Basically they all gave me zero options. If I wanted to use them, I had to sign up for 2FA. No choice at all. Frankly, I see more and more 2FA coming as hacks continue and companies adopt more security. Maybe even Apple will remove the option to exit from it, or to opt out of it. All it will take is one lawsuit from someone who tries to claim, "They never told me..."

    So, if we are going to criticize Apple for something, let's keep it factual. That's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by MacInWin; 03-31-2019 at 08:31 PM.
    Jake

  11. #41
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    ferrarr's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 21, 2012
    Location
    Pawtucket, RI, US
    Posts
    6,410
    Your Mac's Specs
    L2014 Mac mini macOS 14, iPhone 8+ iOS 12, 12.9" iPad Pro 1 iOS 12, Pencil 1
    Rep Power
    13
    I now think that is why people are complaining about it so much, is regard to Apple doing it to all the individual devices. Because they are so tied into all the information connected to their Apple/iCloud ID. If they made their iPhone their only trusted device, then the issue would be connecting your other devices to your Apple/iCloud ID, and still being able to access your account info.

    For me, I have my mini, iPhone and iPad. The iPhone has my iCloud account and my iPad has my Hotmail Apple/iCloud ID. I use both accounts separately on my mini as well.
    -- Bob --
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.

  12. #42
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Bob, that may be part of the problem. To use iCloud, or syncing photos, or iCloud Drive you have to have an Apple ID and it has to be tied to a telephone. But as you add devices to sync, they, too, are added to the distribution list for the 2FA codes. So, for example, if a family has one AppleID to share, then when someone is out on the road with an iPhone and wants to access the account, then everybody else at home who has a trusted device on that AppleID sees the code come in, which might be confusing/annoying.

    Frankly, I think everyone should have their own AppleID and then use Family Sharing to share what the family needs to share. That way if Dad needs the 2FA code, nobody else sees the code arriving because it only goes to HIS AppleID trusted devices.

    Apple doesn't make it easy to ferret it out (Their legendary avoidance of documentation is way over done, IMHO) but with some digging at Apple.com for support documentation you can dig up the stuff you might need. Or you can get one of the "Missing Manual" type books where it's put in one place for you.

    For example, here is Apple's documentation on 2FA: Two-factor authentication for Apple ID - Apple Support

    In the middle of the article is a great recommendation:
    You should also consider verifying an additional phone number you can access, such as a home phone, or a number used by a family member or close friend. You can use this number if you temporarily can't access your primary number or your own devices.
    Basically, they are trying to say that in addition to your one and only iPhone, you should consider a second device that could be used just in case the iPhone is dead, broken, stolen, lost, generally not available and you need to get to the AppleID. Now consider what that would mean: The 2FA codes would go to YOUR phone and also to that OTHER phone every time it was needed. That might be annoying to the owner of that other device. It is good advice to have a backup, but a better way might be to have a different device, such as your Mac, with Messages running and logged into the same iCloud account. That way the owner of the other phone doesn't get nagged with 2FA codes that don't apply. But one other factor is that if you now travel, but leave the Mac at home, then if you lose/break/get stolen your iPhone then the 2FA will go to your Mac at home, which is kind of useless at that point.

    Bottom line, each person should consider HOW to implement 2FA for them and to pick options that make sense for them. Apple gives you options, albeit they are well hidden.
    Jake

  13. #43
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    pm-r's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 16, 2010
    Location
    Brentwood Bay, BC, Canada
    Posts
    11,819
    Rep Power
    18
    Apple gives you options, albeit they are well hidden.

    Yup, just as I mentioned in my #10 post the other day!!! Not impressed!!!



    - Patrick
    ======

  14. #44
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Patrick, I think what happens is that people buy an Apple product, see no setup documents, no manual and think that it must just all work like magic. And for the most part, it does. But when Apple has something a bit more complex like AppleID, 2FA, iCloud, etc, they should produce some documentation for the user and include it in the box with the product, or send to the user by mail if they activate some service like 2FA for example or at the very minimum send an email/message with a link to the documentation. What is a bit annoying is that they HAVE the documentation, you can get it all at support.apple.com, but you have to go there and do a search for it. That document I posted the link for I found there by searching for AppleID and it was right there as the second item in the search results. So they HAVE documentation, you just have to go find it.
    Jake

  15. #45
    Apple Sued Over Not Letting Customers Disable Two-Factor Authentication After 2 Weeks
    MacInWin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 01, 2009
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    6,183
    Your Mac's Specs
    MBP 15" Mid 2015, iPhone XS, an iMac, plus ATVs, AWatch, MacMini
    Rep Power
    26
    Oh, and for your question in post #10, the answer is NO. Once implemented and past the 14 day limit, 2FA stays. That article I linked says:
    If you already use two-factor authentication, you can no longer turn it off. Certain features in the latest versions of iOS and macOS require this extra level of security, which is designed to protect your information. If you recently updated your account, you can unenroll for two weeks. Just open your enrollment confirmation email and click the link to return to your previous security settings. Keep in mind, this makes your account less secure and means that you can't use features that require higher security.
    Jake

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Two Factor Authentication
    By Barrygou in forum macOS - Apps and Games
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-16-2019, 08:23 PM
  2. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-27-2018, 11:16 PM
  3. Does two factor authentication works for all apple accounts?
    By janjankolev in forum Security Awareness
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-07-2018, 09:13 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-16-2017, 09:11 AM
  5. Defeating Apple two-factor authentication with a Mac
    By jonmrich in forum macOS - Operating System
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-14-2015, 07:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •