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  1. #16
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Cr00zng, I think you may have missed the point. In the Upgrade Program you are eligible for an upgrade at the 12 month point. So the way to play the game is to get a new iPhone in that plan, pay the $50/month for 12 months, then trade that one in on the next year's new phone, also at $50 (maybe adjusted for inflation), and so on. You are only paying $50 month for a new phone, always the latest version and always covered by AC+. Technically, the cost is covered by a zero interest loan from Citizens bank, but when you send in the old one at the end of the first year, that loan is cancelled and the new one takes over. I've made that transition once already, plan to do it every year. So I'm only paying about $600/year for a brand new iPhone every year. Eventually the string runs out and I'll have to pay two years, but given how many years I may be able to daisy chain new phones, that extra set of payments may not be that significant in the total cost over the time I run it. Frankly, I'm hoping they shift to straight rental before I have to pay that extra year so I can avoid paying it altogether.

    So, unlike your plan where the cheapest you can get is a three year commitment to a US Carrier at $500/year, using the same phone for those three years, I have a one year commitment that will cost $600, includes AC+, and will have a new phone every year. I kind of like my arrangement.
    Jake

  2. #17
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    chscag's Avatar
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    I have a one year commitment that will cost $600, includes AC+, and will have a new phone every year. I kind of like my arrangement.
    I didn't realize the numbers were that good, and you get a new phone every year including AC+. Thanks for pointing that out Jake. Now if I could only strike up a great deal like that with my cable company..... LOL.

  3. #18
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    ferrarr's Avatar
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    Jake, did you pay the $1000, for the iPhone first, then the agreement kicks in?
    -- Bob --
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.

  4. #19
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Bob, the way it works is that you order the phone through the Upgrade Program, agreeing to pay for it monthly through the financing, and they send the phone to you. Technically, you have agreed to buy it, but the Upgrade Program allows you to upgrade to a newer phone after 12 months of the 24 month financing term. The financing is at 0% effectively as the payment is 1/24th of the purchase price. You are required to buy AppleCare+ in the Upgrade program, which may be where Apple sees the finance terms covered. Or they are discounting the cost of the phone through the financial deal. All I know is that I pay 1/24th of the total for the iPhone and AC+ each month for 24 months, but after 12 months can trade in the phone for a new one with a new deal and the old "loan" is ended when the old phone is returned.

    Here is what Apple has published: https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/ip...pgrade-program

    EDIT: Oh, and I don't have any commitment to my provider, either. I happen to use Verizon, but I can switch at any time by just signing up with whatever service I want. Now that the eSIM is enabled, I could even have two services at the same time.
    Last edited by MacInWin; 01-06-2019 at 04:44 PM.
    Jake

  5. #20
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    lclev's Avatar
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    Jake - Love the analysis. I get that Apple wants us all to move to a rent-an-iPhone plan. It is a better deal for the "I have to have the newest latest greatest" crowd. And after you send your leased phone back, Apple either recycles or refurbishes and makes more money off the old phone. It is a way to guarantee continuous income.

    For the ones who want to keep their phone for more than two or three years buying it is the better.... and for those of us who do not want to pay a monthly rental fee. Especially if Apple continues their buy pack program. I purchase my iPhone X for $1000 then traded it back to Apple for $500. So it cost me $500 for the year I had it. I plan to keep my Xs plus for at least two years. I am not sure what the buy back value will be but I do know I hate moving to a new phone.

    Either way I do believe the rent then upgrade plan is a smooth move for Apple if they want to provide company stability. Think they might start it with the new Mac Pro coming out sometime in 2019 or later? I might be interested if it lead to a potential interest free purchase path or yearly upgrade. (A girl can dream! )

    Lisa
    Recommend using Onyx to clean your Mac.
    If you have been helped, please add to their reputation by clicking on the icon in the lower left hand corner of the post.

  6. #21
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Lisa, surprisingly (or maybe not) the move from my old iPhone 7 to the iPhone 8 and then to the the Xs was relatively painless. The facial recognition and change in gestures was the biggest change, but both work so well that I hardly notice the change any more. I do have to remember the "old" way when I work on my wife's iPhone 7 max. She, like you, hates change, so she's sticking with her old phone until it breaks. I, on the other hand, chase technology like a hunting dog chases rabbits...
    Jake

  7. #22
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
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    Jake, thanks for all the info, and the link. I thought it was only available through the Apple retail stores.

    We still have another year on our current contract, so will look into it then.
    -- Bob --
    Please backup. Everything has a life cycle, unexpected and warning free. Nothing will last as long as you want it to.

  8. #23
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    I am the kind of person who keeps the phone for years so I guess I will stick with paying full price.

  9. #24
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    IWT's Avatar
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    In support of Jake's observation that Apple is changing its business focus, this article, released today might be worth a glance: https://www.kirkville.com/hell-freez...r-apple-again/

    Ian
    Ian

  10. #25
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Cr00zng, I think you may have missed the point. In the Upgrade Program you are eligible for an upgrade at the 12 month point. So the way to play the game is to get a new iPhone in that plan, pay the $50/month for 12 months, then trade that one in on the next year's new phone, also at $50 (maybe adjusted for inflation), and so on. You are only paying $50 month for a new phone, always the latest version and always covered by AC+. Technically, the cost is covered by a zero interest loan from Citizens bank, but when you send in the old one at the end of the first year, that loan is cancelled and the new one takes over. I've made that transition once already, plan to do it every year. So I'm only paying about $600/year for a brand new iPhone every year. Eventually the string runs out and I'll have to pay two years, but given how many years I may be able to daisy chain new phones, that extra set of payments may not be that significant in the total cost over the time I run it. Frankly, I'm hoping they shift to straight rental before I have to pay that extra year so I can avoid paying it altogether.

    So, unlike your plan where the cheapest you can get is a three year commitment to a US Carrier at $500/year, using the same phone for those three years, I have a one year commitment that will cost $600, includes AC+, and will have a new phone every year. I kind of like my arrangement.
    That depends on the needs, age of the person, financial circumstances, etc. In another world, different folks, different strokes....

    I no longer have loans, mortgage, etc., and nowadays, rather purchase things outright. My i8 plus will last for another two - four years at least and have no intent to replace it until it breaks. If I'd 20-30 years younger and need the leading edge technology, I'd probably do the same as you do, instead of agreeing with dtravis7...

  11. #26
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Well, when I get old, maybe I'll do the same thing, but I'm only 73, so I like to have the latest tech. You are right about everyone having their preferences, just don't be to upset if Apple goes all rental in the future.
    Jake

  12. #27
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacInWin View Post
    Well, when I get old, maybe I'll do the same thing, but I'm only 73, so I like to have the latest tech. You are right about everyone having their preferences, just don't be to upset if Apple goes all rental in the future.
    Good bless you and wish you a long life...

    While I am not quite there yet, working in IT security for 20+ years, it pretty much disillusioned me about security and IT in general. Technology still interest me, especially the storage that's still the bottleneck in performance, but not to the level that I'd need the "bleeding edge".

    Whatever the latest "iX" I'll have at the point, when Apple goes rental, I'll keep it until it dies and see what's available on different platform(s). I somewhat doubt that Apple will do that, declining cash purchase isn't a good business practice in my view. And it's one thing to rent services and software for longer time period and it's other to rent hardware for the same period.

  13. #28
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWT View Post
    In support of Jake's observation that Apple is changing its business focus, this article, released today might be worth a glance: https://www.kirkville.com/hell-freez...r-apple-again/

    Ian
    Or, one can look at this like...

    Alternatively, Apple admits that there isn't enough market interest for Apple TV and as such, trying to recuperate its initial investment, by extending the offer to different platform(s). Much like they did with iTunes for Windows. This offer is an Apple service, that does not have hardware requirements for Apple devices. Barring software update to add Apple TV to existing Samsung, and other brands of TVs, this offer may take some time to have an impact in this market. TVs aren't purchased frequently, to my recollection the average time for replacing a TV is between seven and eight years.

    This is a service and Airplay 2 is software and presumably some hardware and licensing solution bundle. While Apple had changed its focus somewhat, in my view it's cashing in on its technologies, stretching it out to "i" devices seems a bit premature. Not to mention that it isn't really "rental" for iPhones, more of a creative financial solution that mainly benefits Apple. Unless of course, if someone wants the latest and greatest from Apple. For those people the trade off is well worth for....

  14. #29
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Well, it's not too much of a leap to see Apple announcing that all that makes an iPhone an iPhone (iOS environment, the iOS universe, the Apple ecosystem, whatever you want to call it) will be made available on any smartphone with certain hardware minimums, as a service. Much like the Apple TV services being available on certain smart TVs. Not like Microsoft licensing the operating system, but a service to gain access to the ecosystem with whatever hardware you want to bring to the party. They could make it an "all or none" proposition, where if you opt in, you are all in, and your mobile essentially becomes an iPhone by having all other operating systems removed and iOS installed. As long as you pay the rent, you get the service. Stop paying and on the next connection to the mothership the OS is removed. iPhone as a Service. The alien hardware would have to have firmware that could be written to to change the personality, which is essentially what LG/Samsung/etc are doing for the AppleTV as a service. Admittedly, AppleTV is a bit easier to manage because it is a portal to streaming more than anything else, but it's not a huge tech leap from that to viewing a mobile phone as a portal for streaming (including voice) as well.
    Jake

  15. #30
    Apple is in trouble following stock hit
    Cr00zng's Avatar
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    While iOS for Android smartphones is possible, under the umbrella that anything is possible, but not without caveats...

    Both Android and iPhone use ARM CPUs, or rather SoC, with some differences. The Apple devices with iOS use the Apple designed/modified ARM SoC and as such, porting iOS to an Android smartphone, that uses the ARM SoC without modification, is not a simple task. Can it be done, certainly, but the chances are that the hardware based security of the iOS is probably out the window. There are other issues as well...

    In order to modify the firmware/OS on the Android based smartphone requires "rooting" the the device, since the owner of the device has no access to the "root". And even then, proceed at your own risk. Can this step be part of the upgrade to iOS? It could, I've seen Android malware that made rooting the device a child play. The question is, will Apple stand behind this type of update, if and when things go haywire? I do have some ideas what Apple will do...

    There are also the users of Android platform, who selected this platform and during time accumulated a large number of apps and got accustomed to the Google world. Would they just go ahead and do that, just to have iOS and purchase more apps? Saying that it is doubtful is an understatement...

    Don't take me wrong, certainly Apple needs to make its services available on other platforms, that's what everyone does and so should Apple. But in my view, iOS is not going to be offered anytime soon for non-Apple devices.

    Even, if there's such offer from Apple, the Android platform OEMs are pretty much locked in to Google's version of Android:

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...s-necessary/3/

    It would not take long for Google to extend the the requirements for OEMs to disable iOS installation....

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