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  1. #16
    Cellular Connections?
    Rod's Avatar
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    The bottom line here is if your iPad does not have a SIM card it cannot connect to a cellular network. For the same reason a computer cannot connect to a cellular network. The SIM card (a Smart card Inside a Mobile phone), carrying an identification number unique to the owner, storing personal data, and preventing operation if removed, connects you to a wireless telephone network
    WiFi or a cable connects you to a Router which is connected by cable to a Modem which in turn is connected to an ISP (internet Service Provider).
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  2. #17
    Cellular Connections?
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    No doubt that would be their conclusion, especially when it means that Apple could then sell the user an iPhone, which would be a forced choice purchase for a lot of users, including myself.
    Nope, you don't need an Apple product as a hotspot. Anything that will connect to the Mac will do. Don't even need a phone at all. Cell companies sell hotspots:
    Verizon Ellipsis Jetpack MHS900L | Verizon Wireless
    And third party sellers are in the game too.
    The Best Mobile Hotspots for 2019 | PCMag.com

    Or you can use any smartphone with the capability for hosting a hotspot, not just iPhone.
    Jake

  3. #18
    Cellular Connections?
    Slydude's Avatar
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    Thanks Jake

    I was just about to point out that the hotspot feature does not requite an iPhone. I hadn't thought about the fact that wireless carriers provide hotspot devices.
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
    Kevin Durant

  4. #19
    Cellular Connections?
    Rod's Avatar
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    I have a device I bought here in Bali called a "Boost" which is actually a mobile 3G-4G WiFi router. About the size of a small mobile phone it has a dedicated SIM (from whatever provider I like) and can run multiple devices like laptops and phones at the same time. I just pre-pay for a mobile data plan, about $5.00 gets me about 2.5Gb download and 5Gb upload. Generally much more dependable than in house WiFi here I take it with me on trips where I need to use my laptop. Because computers are so expensive for locals here there has been a focus on cellular data as a means to do just about everything we might do on a computer.
    I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect.

  5. #20
    Cellular Connections?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felasco View Post
    Right, I get that laptops don't have built-in cellular hardware (like some iPads).

    My question is... Why?

    It seems reasonable that some iPad users would want to connect beyond wi-fi. Why wouldn't the same thing be true of some laptop users?
    I could probably offer some theories...but let's consider these things first:

    - All smart companies do focus groups with consumers...sometimes mall intercept survey's...phone survey's...email survey's...etc. You can be absolutely 1000% sure Apple did research into this.
    - How many competitor manufacturers of laptops include builtin cellular capabilities?...I think the answer is very few...if any.
    - I'm pretty sure this is the first time in at least 10 years here on Mac-Forums that I can recall remembering someone asking this question.

    It's a great theoretical question...and I'm sure there may be some laptop users out there that might like this cellular feature...but bottom line is...there simply aren't enough consumers out there that need/want this feature to justify companies producing different computer models with builtin cellular. Plus it adds in the neighborhood of $100 extra in cost.

    In 2019...almost everyone has a cellphone...many users have unlimited data plans...and cellphones can be setup as hot-spots...so there's no need for the computer itself to have cellular hardware.

    HTH,

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
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  6. #21
    Cellular Connections?
    Slydude's Avatar
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    Good point Nick.

    Back in the day when personal hotspots were nonexistent / in limited use the cell call dongles might have been more useful but data plan costs made it impractical for most users. Add to that the fact that in those days one was forced to load the desktop version of most sites which used more data and was more cumbersome to use than their mobile-friendly counterparts today.
    “Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
    Kevin Durant

  7. #22
    Cellular Connections?
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    To be very honest...with the way many folks have cellphone plans with unlimited data...and most phones able to be setup as cellular hotspots...to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for anyone top purchase an iPad with builtin cellular ability.

    - First...almost everyone with a cellphone carry's it with them when outside the home (thus set it up as a hotspot for the iPad...if no WiFi connections nearby).
    - Second...in many geographies there are lots of commercial hot spots (free wifi is available where you are...so no cellular connection necessary).
    - Very likely you would need a 2nd cell plan for a cellular capable iPad (in addition to a cell plan for a person cellphone).
    - An iPad with builtin cellular costs between $130-$150 more than a WiFi only iPad.

    Of course there are some folks in some geographies where owning an iPad with builtin cellular may make more sense...and having an iPad with builtin cellular is more convenient. But to get that convenience (at least in the United States) you have to pay $130-$150 more upfront for the iPad...and then $50-$75 or more/month for the life of the iPad for a standalone cell plan for the iPad.

    This gets kind of expensive when cellular connection for an iPad can be had for free...via a cellphone setup as a hotspot!

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  8. #23
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    This gets kind of expensive when cellular connection for an iPad can be had for free...via a cellphone setup as a hotspot!

    - Nick

    The part I really don't get, especially with Canadian cell suppliers, is why some stuff is allowed and charged at a certian rate and then other stuff may not even be allowed or if it is, it's charged out at a different and often much higher rate.

    For example:
    What I would like to get is a comparison of how much it costs to get your data for a mobile device. In this case, you can have three things: data (really they are all data), voice, and text messages. Typically, a service provider will charge you differently for these different things.
    How Much Does Your Data Cost? | WIRED

    The really goofy part to me is as the author says:
    really they are all data

    So why in h*ll can't my iPad use its SIM card to make and receive a voice call, that's coomposed of exactly the same stuffdigital DATA... that is sent and received over the air using cell towers???? And just like every cellphone can do???

    So I guess I must be missing something pretty basic to not understand why it wouldn't or doesn't easily work.

    I suspect money may have something to do with it somewhere along the line, and it's not just the cost of the Sim card plus some time or data amount.



    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #24
    Cellular Connections?
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    I don't have a Cell iPad, but I thought they *could* make calls??? There is not much reason for them not to, all you need is to transmit the dial sequence and then process audio to digital to radio
    Jake

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    It's a great theoretical question...
    Which we have yet to answer. We don't really need to find an answer, I can easily live without one. But for the sake of theoretical inquiry, just saying, lots of good talk above, but no actual answer to the question.

    Apple judged that some iPad users would want cellular connection within their device.

    Apple judged laptop users would not want this feature.

    Makes no sense.

    Unless there is some technical issue which we've yet to uncover. For instance, maybe Apple is so focused on battery time in laptops that they didn't want to make room for the cellular hardware within a laptop, preferring to use that space for the battery.

    But, somehow this wasn't an issue in the smaller iPad.

    Again, makes no sense.

  11. #26
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Which we have yet to answer. We don't really need to find an answer, I can easily live without one. But for the sake of theoretical inquiry, just saying, lots of good talk above, but no actual answer to the question.
    You can find some of the answers you need, but a lot might depend on what area you live in just by following some of Apple's links:
    Set up cellular data service on your Wi-Fi + Cellular model iPad
    Set up cellular data service on your Wi-Fi + Cellular model iPad - Apple Support
    iPad - Cellular - Apple
    iPad - View countries with supported LTE networks - Apple
    etc... etc...

    Still somewhat confusing and geting some apps to work as you want may leave a fair bit to be desired it seems.



    - Patrick
    ======

  12. #27
    Cellular Connections?
    MacInWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felasco View Post
    Which we have yet to answer. We don't really need to find an answer, I can easily live without one. But for the sake of theoretical inquiry, just saying, lots of good talk above, but no actual answer to the question.

    Apple judged that some iPad users would want cellular connection within their device.
    Apple also judged that some folks would NOT want cellular connections, so they provided an option. And those options sold well enough that they continued to offer them without cellular.

    Apple judged laptop users would not want this feature.

    Makes no sense.
    Well, actually it does. The form-factor of a portable computer does not make for good phone calls, unless you want a video call. Just talking to a computer does not seem intuitive, at least to me. However, Apple provided the ability to do video calling with FaceTime and avoided the extra cost of putting cellular circuits in the portable and the added cost of the user having to have a separate cell line for your portable as well as your phone. For data they gave hotspot capability. So, you CAN make a call and use cellular data for connectivity, if you want, and they didn't force it on folks who don't want the capability and who would object to the extra cost by not buying it. Plus, they avoided the complexity of their supply chain have two variants of every configuration of the MBP/MBA. The lineup is already complex without doubling it.

    Unless there is some technical issue which we've yet to uncover. For instance, maybe Apple is so focused on battery time in laptops that they didn't want to make room for the cellular hardware within a laptop, preferring to use that space for the battery.
    Maybe, but I suspect the cost was more of a factor than battery space.

    But, somehow this wasn't an issue in the smaller iPad.

    Again, makes no sense.
    It does, actually, as I've described. And the smaller iPad is closer to a phone than a laptop, both in size and form-factor. If you compare an iPad mini to a iPhone XS+, the difference is size is not that great. I'm not ever going to hold a laptop up to my head to make a voice call. It's enough to laugh at someone holding up a book sized iPad to make a voice call. About the only way to use an iPad/MBP/MBA as a phone is as a hands-free, or speakerphone, which is annoying to your neighbors and has the further annoyance of picking up all kinds of background noise. I used to ask anybody who called me on a speaker phone to call me when they could use a handset. I hate the background noise on speaker phones, even now.
    Jake

  13. #28
    Cellular Connections?
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felasco View Post
    Which we have yet to answer. We don't really need to find an answer, I can easily live without one. But for the sake of theoretical inquiry, just saying, lots of good talk above, but no actual answer to the question.

    Apple judged that some iPad users would want cellular connection within their device.

    Apple judged laptop users would not want this feature.

    Makes no sense.

    Unless there is some technical issue which we've yet to uncover. For instance, maybe Apple is so focused on battery time in laptops that they didn't want to make room for the cellular hardware within a laptop, preferring to use that space for the battery.

    But, somehow this wasn't an issue in the smaller iPad.

    Again, makes no sense.
    It makes perfect sense...you're simply choosing to ignore what's being presented in this discussion. There is no technical reason this can't be done...it a business decision made by Apple...based (at least in part) on customer feedback...and other things.

    Apple (just like any other business) is in business to make money. And Apple is owned by stockholders that want a return on their investment. Making 100 different MacBook/MacBook Pro/MacBook Air models to satisfy EVERY users potential "feature wish list" is NOT what companies do (it's inefficient). They also don't make one single over-loaded model with EVERY feature possible so that everyone is satisfied...since this would make the cost of that single model sky-high!

    The key is "model optimization". Making as few different models as possible...while at the same time satisfying as many users as possible.

    If the majority of consumers don't need or want cellular capabilities in a laptop computer...then why include it...on top of the fact that it will probably make the price of a laptop $130-$150 more.

    8-10 years ago it didn't make sense to include cellular capabilities in Apple laptop computers...and with every year that goes by...it makes less & less sense. In 2019 with many many people having cell phones (which can be used as a hot spot for a computer)...it makes almost no sense for an Apple computer to have cellular capability.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    It makes perfect sense...you're simply choosing to ignore what's being presented in this discussion.
    Yes, because little of what is being said actually addresses the issue presented in the opening post.
    That's ok, no problem, let's just drop it and move on. I don't really care enough about it to get in to the usual "here's why you're wrong" forum debate thing.

  15. #30
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    pm-r's Avatar
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    Yes, because little of what is being said actually addresses the issue presented in the opening post.

    OK, so some of the comments may have got a bit off line, but he's my direct answer to your original question:
    Why can iPads make a cellular connection to the Net, but laptops can not?
    Bottom line is, because the laptops in most companies circumstances, just aren't designed to do so directly, or without using some type of compatible accessory (that don't seem to be available or supported these days, or at least not in this N.A. country.
    (It gets a bit confusing when the iPads etc, are included, but that wasn't really part of your original question that I included with part of my reply. Sorry foR that.)

    My explanation would be something like it's like if you wanted to haul large logs or gravel etc. efficiently, you would would need to purchase a logging or gravel truck that's designed for those specific tasks. If you also needed to haul special fliuds like gasoline or liquid propane, you'd need a different specially designed thuck to do those jobs.

    I hope that sort of answers your original question better. And yes, unlike my eldest son, I'd make a lousy teacher.


    - Patrick
    ======

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