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  1. #1
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    Sorry for the length of this post, but I need to explain why I am asking this question.

    Not too long ago I bought my wife a 2017 15" MacBook Pro to replace her current old Windows 7 laptop which acts like it is on its last legs. When the MBP came in I spent some time setting it up and noticed that the "throw" of the keys on the keyboard was very shallow, enough to bother me since I am used to using a keyboard with a traditional deep push distance. When I spoke with Apple they said that it was likely the result of the thinner form of the MBP, and it does not seem to bother my wife at all.

    I have been looking into replacing my old Mac Mini (Late 2014) with a newer and faster desktop, but the "new" Minis are the same model as I am currently using and the Mac Pros have not been updated since 2013, so that is 5 year old technology. I can not use an iMac due to the glare of the screen, and thought I might use a new 15" 2018 MacBook Pro in clamshell mode as a desktop. The specs say it can run up to 4 external monitors and I can use my current bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it and take the entire machine with me when I travel and just use the built-in keyboard and trackpad. The one thing that is keeping me from placing an order is the MBP keyboard.

    I read the description of the 2018 15" MBP on MacRumors and they said that the keyboard had been replaced and I was wondering if anyone who has that machine can tell me if the keys still use the shallow depth "throw" and if they differ in any noticeable way from the 2017 models.

    Thanks for being patient in getting through this post.

  2. #2
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    ...I was wondering if anyone who has that machine can tell me if the keys still use the shallow depth "throw" and if they differ in any noticeable way from the 2017 models.
    Considering how personal of an issue this is for you Mike...I think it would be best if your were able to visit a local Apple or Best Buy store & check out the keyboards yourself...then you will know for sure if the 2018 model keyboard is to your liking. It's possible the 2018 keyboard is more to your liking...or maybe the 2017 or 2018 keyboard both still don't meet your needs.

    Kind of like buying a pair of pants via the internet. They may fit someone else with the exact same measurements as you...but when you try them on...nope...no way!

    - Nick
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  3. #3
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Considering how personal of an issue this is for you Mike...I think it would be best if your were able to visit a local Apple or Best Buy store & check out the keyboards yourself...then you will know for sure if the 2018 model keyboard is to your liking. It's possible the 2018 keyboard is more to your liking...or maybe the 2017 or 2018 keyboard both still don't meet your needs.
    Yes, perhaps. I was just hoping for some good news ...

  4. #4
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    chscag's Avatar
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    I read the description of the 2018 15" MBP on MacRumors and they said that the keyboard had been replaced and I was wondering if anyone who has that machine can tell me if the keys still use the shallow depth "throw" and if they differ in any noticeable way from the 2017 models.
    Nick's advise is probably best. However, my understanding is that the 2018 keyboard butterfly mechanism is basically the same but with an added layer of protection against dust and debris getting under the keys. Apple has added a silicon layer of some sort to protect the keys from fouling up. You asked about the depth throw which I guess you mean "typing feel" when pressing the keys. Some folks love the shallow throw while other hate it. So again, like Nick says, you need to try it out for yourself.

  5. #5
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    Raz0rEdge's Avatar
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    I will second, third (or wherever I am going to fall in the lineup) the advice on visiting your local Apple store to play with the latest MBP for yourself. However, the keyboards (starting with the 2016 model) is the newer butterfly design that is dramatically different than all the previous models and is something they are continuing to iterate on.

    The new keyboard does have a shorter throw and feels VERY different than the previous models. I will say that as someone who had the 2012 model, then 2016 and now 2107 model MBPs, you get used to the newer keyboard pretty quickly and I don't feel like I'm doing any worse typing on this than on the previous generations.

    However, the keyboard type/feel/click is a very personal thing, so YMMV.
    --
    Regards
    ...Ashwin


  6. #6
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Thank you, every one who posted, for your advice. I took it and went to the local BestBuy to test the MBP keyboard for myself and it feels exactly like the 2017 keyboard. I know they have changed it and I know they added spill protection to it, but it feel exactly the same to me and I do not care of it at all.

    However since I would mainly use this in clamshell mode as a desktop I suppose that does not matter too much. I would then be able to take the MBP with me when I traveled and have my desktop, but be able to use it as a laptop, and so spare myself the need for my current MBA for travel and spare me the need to try to sync the information that is on it as well. I may not like using it as a laptop but, then again, perhaps I will get used to the keyboard.

    Ah, well, nothing is perfect in this world, except mathematics.
    Last edited by MikeFromMesa; 08-16-2018 at 12:27 PM.

  7. #7
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    However since I would mainly use this in clamshell mode as a desktop I suppose that does not matter too much.
    I don't use my 17" MBP in clamshell mode...but I do use it with am external 30" monitor (17" builtin + 30" monitor). I also use an external keyboard (as it sounds like you will also)...which works great for me.

    Is the 2018 MBP what you've decided on getting? You were talking alot about a Mac-Mini, Mac Pro, and your wife's computer.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  8. #8
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pm-r's Avatar
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    but it feel exactly the same to me and I do not care of it at all.

    You're sure not restricted to using an Apple keyboard you don't like, so why not just spend the money on a good one you will like and that can also be used on almost any Mac like most of the Matias keyboards???:
    https://www.matias.ca/products/

    I have never encountered anyone who didn't like using their Matias keyboard, but maybe you'll be the first…




    - Patrick
    ======

  9. #9
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    I don't use my 17" MBP in clamshell mode...but I do use it with am external 30" monitor (17" builtin + 30" monitor). I also use an external keyboard (as it sounds like you will also)...which works great for me.

    Is the 2018 MBP what you've decided on getting? You were talking alot about a Mac-Mini, Mac Pro, and your wife's computer.
    I think so.

    As you know I have been going around and around trying to figure out what machine to get, but in the end most of my interim choices did not turn out to be viable. The Mac Pro's technology is just too old at 5 years, there is no new Mac Mini that is any more powerful than I already have and the iMacs, as tempting as they are, are just not viable given the glossy screen and the large footprint. All that is left is the MacBook Pro.

    On the positive side of the new MBPs are the facts that they now support 32GB of memory and have the new 6 core i7 and i9 chips, and ssds up to 512GB are no longer impossibly expensive. The GeekBench figures for them are about 3 times those for my Mini and I have gotten really tired of how long photo processing using my Mini has been taking. Dxo's PhotoLab took almost 1 1/2 minutes to process 2 noisy photos and that means that processing images after we return from a trip is a multi-day affair. On top of that there is the fact that I could just pick up the MBP when my wife and I travel and use it instead of having to have a clone machine like my current MacBook Air.

    On the negative side the new MBPs are a bit pricey with a 32GB i7 machine running about $3200, and that is the price of the Mac Pros, but I have no idea when the new Mac pros will be released, what their specs will be or how much they will cost when they are available.

    I had thought about just using my wife's MBP since she has shown no interest in it since I bought it last January and it has just gathered dust, but yesterday, just as I was thinking using her machine was my best option, she told me she was ready to start using it. Of course that just figures ...

    Given all of that it looks like I will be ordering a MacBook Pro as my new "desktop", although I have been trying to settle some questions first since I have never try to use a MBP in clamshell mode and I am not sure what I have to do to get it to automatically find an external monitor. I don't much care for the new keyboards, but 95% of the time I would be using an external Apple BT keyboard so that really is a small issue.

  10. #10
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Quote Originally Posted by pm-r View Post
    You're sure not restricted to using an Apple keyboard you don't like, so why not just spend the money on a good one you will like and that can also be used on almost any Mac like most of the Matias keyboards???:
    https://www.matias.ca/products/
    Thanks for the link, but I am currently using, and very happy with, the BT Apple keyboard that I use with my Mac Mini. I would just assume I would use it with the MBP when I get it.

    It is not that I do not like the Apple keyboards. I like all of the Apple keyboards I have had, including my old MacBook Pro (which I gave to my step-son), my current MacBook Air as well as my external Apple keyboard. It is just the keyboards on the new MacBook Pros with their shallow length of travel that feel strange to me, but I assume I will get used to them.

  11. #11
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post
    All that is left is the MacBook Pro.
    Not exactly true. I believe the rational behind not getting the 2013 Mac Pro was that you didn't feel that the price-tag for a 2013 Mac Pro was worth it for 5 year-old technology. You also mentioned earlier that portability was not necessarily a concern...which is why desktop model's such as the Mac-Mini & Mac Pro were under consideration at that time.

    I made 2 possible alternative suggestions:

    1. At one point I suggested a 2012 quad-core Mac-Mini.
    2. I suggested at least 2x...that you might seriously consider getting an original style Mac Pro.

    The quad-core Mac-Mini would have more CPU performance that your 2014 Mac-Mini.

    As far as the original style Tower Mac Pro. Price tag is bound to be more reasonable than either a 2013 Mac Pro or a 2018 15" MacBook Pro. You would still get kick-butt performance from a model that could have anywhere from 4 to 12 cores. And probably at a fairly reasonable price.

    Of course now that you've opened "Pandora's Box"...and looked at the 2018 15" MacBook Pro's (with a $2399+ price-tag)...an older computer will most likely never suffice.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  12. #12
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Not exactly true.
    My comment that all that was left was the MacBook Pro was meant to refer to purchases of new or refurbished equipment, not used equipment. I apologize if that was not clear in the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    1. At one point I suggested a 2012 quad-core Mac-Mini.
    Yes, and I remembered that comment. You mentioned how much sought after the 4 core Minis were, but I thought at the time that it was just a comment, not a suggestion. I have looked at used equipment, but not seen any 4 core Minis. That is not saying that they are not out there, just that I did not see them at the used computer sites I checked. *

    The main reason I am looking for a new machine is that this Mini is so slow when I am processing large digital photos, and I am constantly maxing out my cpu. A 4 core Mini would be faster, but not as fast as my wife's 2017 MBP.

    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    2. I suggested at least 2x...that you might seriously consider getting an original style Mac Pro.
    I looked at those as well, and there are a lot of them available, many more than I would have thought were around this long after they were discontinued, but they are even older and they are still quite expensive. The ones I saw for sale ranged from a little under $2000 to a little over $2000 while the newer cylindrical black tower ones were close to $2500. Those were from online vendors, not individuals, and thus came with some kind of short warranty, but they were still pricey and, it seemed to me, more than they should have cost, considering their age.

    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Of course now that you've opened "Pandora's Box"...and looked at the 2018 15" MacBook Pro's (with a $2399+ price-tag)...an older computer will most likely never suffice.
    There is that.

    The model I was looking included the 6 core 2.6GHz chip, 32GB of RAM and 512GB ssd so it was much higher than $2400; indeed, it was noticeably over $3000 so it is not something to jump into. On the other hand it would have the ability for me to pick it up and take it with me when my wife and I travel, even if I do not care for the new keyboards.

    * UPDATE:

    After posting this I went looking specifically for 4 core 2012 Mac Minis and I found them - quite a lot of them - at one of the online shops, but the configuration I would want (i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB ssd) is almost $1200 which seems like quite a bit for an old Mini. A new one, spec-ed like the one I have now (i7, 16GB RAM, 256GB ssd) is just under $1400 so that price just seems unreasonable to me. Clearly it is not unreasonable or the price would have dropped, but it seems too expensive to me for such an old machine.
    Last edited by MikeFromMesa; 08-16-2018 at 10:38 AM.

  13. #13
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard

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    Just a quick note. While I was browsing my available choices I decided to keep track of the GeekBench scores and here they are for the machines I configured:

    Machine ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Single Core/Multi Core

    Mac mini (Late 2014) Intel Core i7-4578U @ 3.0 GHz (2 cores) ------------------ 3698/7040

    MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid 2017) Intel Core i7-7700HQ @ 2.8 GHz (4 cores) ------- 4343/14370

    MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid 2018) Intel Core i7-8850H @ 2.6 GHz (6 cores) -------- 5048/21244

    Mac Pro (Late 2013) Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2 @ 3.5 GHz (6 cores) ----------------- 3810/17923

    Mac Pro (Mid 2010) Intel Xeon W3680 @ 3.3 GHz (6 cores) ----------------------- 2991/13209


    The old Mac Pros are considerably faster than my Mac Mini in multi-core processing, but not in single core processing, and they lack far behind the new 2018 MacBook Pro in both types of processing. I found the comparison interesting since the testing I could do showed that the multi-core processing numbers corresponded roughly to the differing photo editing speeds I see on the machines that I do have.

  14. #14
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFromMesa View Post

    * UPDATE:

    After posting this I went looking specifically for 4 core 2012 Mac Minis and I found them - quite a lot of them - at one of the online shops...
    Online shops many times are too expensive. Sometimes the asking price can be as much as double what they're selling for on eBay. If you're going to buy used...Craig's List & eBay are the way to go.

    If you're not comfortable doing this...then stick with Apple new or refurbished.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  15. #15
    2018 MacBook Pro keyboard
    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Here's are three original style Mac Pro possibilities from eBay that would probably kick some butt (all around $1200 + shipping):

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Pro-201...4AAOSw98FbYjbb
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Pro-201...AAAOSwDw9bM~Hn
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-P...4AAOSwnL9bU56n

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

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