Does Apple take Responsibility when it messes up?

Ok - this is not a tech question post, but rather about Apple's response to Tech Issues.

There seems to be a tremendous number of people having issues with iTunes 7.6. People are seeing libraries wiped out, iPod's wiped out, system hanging, and a persistant issue related to accessing the iTunes Store. This issue seems to be affecting both Window's users and Mac users alike. I'm on a Mac myself, but like I say - this isn't about resolving my tech issue. If you want to learn more about the 100's of users having issues, check out http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=783&start=0 or do a google search. It's pretty widespread.

But the reason I'm posting is Apples response to this. For my part, I contacted iTunes Store support and have an ongoing series of emails with them. They have offered absolutely no workable solution to my particular problem with 7.6, and have said they are not aware of anyone having issues with 7.6. I have 23 purchased TV shows waiting download, and their only solution for me is to contact Apple Support which they say is chargeable. I don't find this an acceptable solution.

Searching the forums at the link above I saw many users who also spoke with Apple support, online, on the phone and at genius bars - and in all cases it's the same message from Apple - "really?! we haven't heard about anyone else with problems" - and yet their own forums are filled with frustrated users.

I posted on the Apple Forum - it was basically a "me too - I'm having similar problems, any solutions?" posting - like many others that were there. But I took it a step further and told users they should write to Apple and tell them that if this isn't resolved they will withdraw their business from iTunes store. Apple moderators promptly deleted this posting, saying that I was commenting on "Apple Policies", something they forbid in their forum.

All I'd like to see is Apple stepping up and saying - yes we recognize there is a major problem with this release, and we're working on a solution. Instead they are censoring my posts and claiming that they haven't heard anyone else having an issue, and more importantly not offering anyone any solutions.

I urge anyone who's having a problem to write to Apple and let them know how they feel! I've spent well over $1000 with iTunes Store in just the past few months - a drop in the bucket. But if there are 1000 other users out there that write in, we're suddenly talking about over $1M in revenue at stake, or even more if you consider "lifetime value".

What do others think?

Rob

This is one of the many reasons I do not support digital distribution. I'd much rather buy a physical copy of the real thing.

Anyway, they'll continue to deny it until they come out with iTunes 7.7 or whatnot (or maybe something disguised as a security update). iTunes and its store is a big moneymaker and there is no way you'd get any business to admit there is a problem... that could limit sales and money is the #1 most important thing in this world. Look how much widespread chaos it took for MicroSoft to put a band aid on the Xbox360 buy extending the warranty.

I guess so - I was just hoping that Apple was a different sort of company. Censoring my posts on their forum really rankled.

Well, I had some weird library issue. I backed up all my music and formatted my computer a few weeks back. I loaded everything back up and now I'm missing a few Beatles albums, the entire Smashing Pumpkins catalogue, and a Yeah Yeah Yeahs album. I have no clue what iTunes version I used or an using now.
If you don't have hard copy backups of everything, it's not necessarily Apple's fault. If a hundred or two have a problem, I don't know if it's necessarily a widespread issue. If a million people downloaded 7.6 and didn't have a problem, I would say an error rate of .0001% is pretty good. It's be nice if not a single person had a problem with iTunes or any app but Apple can't be going around fixing and compensating every single persons issue with every app they make, can they?

I seem to notice that every release of an iTunes update will bring about a slew of problem postings. However, I don't think we're in any position to say whether or not it's "widespread." We don't have the data to see how many upgraded with no issues (like myself).

And no, Apple really is no different than any other successful company from a business standpoint. To me, it's their products that set them apart and the reason I purchase. I have noticed posts which could potentially be damaging to the company's reputation are removed sometimes, though I wasn't aware Apple employees actually moderated those forums.

Haven't had a single problem with mine on either Windows or Mac.

stanleyrob said:

Ok - this is not a tech question post, but rather about Apple's response to Tech Issues.

Searching the forums at the link above I saw many users who also spoke with Apple support, online, on the phone and at genius bars - and in all cases it's the same message from Apple - "really?! we haven't heard about anyone else with problems" - and yet their own forums are filled with frustrated users.

What do others think?

Rob

Click to expand...

Well,
I don't have any iTunes issues (mostly because i don't use the store), but I have noticed, and I hate to say it, that it does seem Apple has been "unaware" of some things. I just got back from the genius bar with my 1st gen iPod nano. So the thing is pretty much dead, it does nothing except create a loud buzzing noise when its plugged into my mac. The guy said "WOW, thats REALLY weird, we've never heard of that before!"
Well, use google, and you will FIND THINGS. I'm not the only one with this problem. In fact, i've been to the exact same apple store a couple of weeks earlier with a friend with HIS 1st gen Nano buzzing and not powering on. And it's on their forum.
I'm not looking for a free iPod. It's very old, VERY beat up, the warranty is void, it's pretty much useless. I knew that. I just wanted to see if anyone knew FOR SURE if it was the logic board.
Generally the Apple geniuses are really great, but sometimes you can sort of tell when they are giving you the run around. Sure, if it were a 3rd gen, or maybe even a newer 2nd gen Nano, i'm sure they would have cared more. But still, I dont believe it when they say its NEVER happened.

Just my 2 cents.

I had a firmware problem with my Mac Pro when I got it. I called phone support immediately and he had no clue how to help. By your logic, if one tech person doesn't know how to solve my problem, Apple must be "unaware" of the problem. It turned out the latest firmware wasnt downloading through update. I lugged that 65lb computer through an outdoor mall while it was lightly raining just to find that out.
Apple sells lots of products. Every tech person doesn't know every single little issue for every product. They probably are required to read the discussion group either. Techs might genuinely not now how to fix everything. Or it could easily be you were pestering him about an out of warranty iPod and he was a little rude to you.

bryphotoguy said:

I had a firmware problem with my Mac Pro when I got it. I called phone support immediately and he had no clue how to help. By your logic, if one tech person doesn't know how to solve my problem, Apple must be "unaware" of the problem. It turned out the latest firmware wasnt downloading through update. I lugged that 65lb computer through an outdoor mall while it was lightly raining just to find that out.
Apple sells lots of products. Every tech person doesn't know every single little issue for every product. They probably are required to read the discussion group either. Techs might genuinely not now how to fix everything. Or it could easily be you were pestering him about an out of warranty iPod and he was a little rude to you.

Click to expand...

Well, i see your point, but it was the EXACT SAME genius I had went in there with weeks earlier, i'm not saying he REMEMBERS it, i'm not saying he KNOWS how to fix it, i'm just saying, every time I go into the Apple store its pretty much the same people working there. Depending on what I bring in and how often I go, sometimes they even remember the last time I was there.
I was not "pestering" anyone about my iPod as you suggest, I KNOW the iPod is as good as useless, just my curiosity got the best of me and I wanted to know if it was the LB like I assumed it was. In the end it didn't matter that much to me, I was just wondering. I told him flat out the warranty was void, that we had replaced the screen multiple times, and all of that jazz. It was really a pointless trip, but I was in the area and I wanted to play with some toys.;D
But my 2nd reason for going to the apple store was to see exactly how much I would get off of a new iPod for recycling in the Nano, and if that 10% would apply to refurbs.

I'm not saying that they really DID know more than they were telling me, but to quote a Mac Genius "It's an Apple store, we've seen EVERYTHING".
If I hadn't brought another Nano in with pretty much the same problem in only 2 weeks earlier, with the SAME genius, I wouldn't really be posting this right now. Maybe he doesn't remember, maybe he does, but in the end I was a little annoyed because A) I had an appointment for 3:30, got there at 3:15 and 3:30 came and went, and I was in the Apple store the whole time, obviously, since i have been posting here. Well, at about 4:15 he looks at me and says "What is your name", and I tell him my name, and he says "So, running a little late are we?"
I say, "Uh no, i was actually early. Nobody called my name that i know of, and I told a Genius that nobody called my name and she said she would get to it."
I didn't really mind waiting that long, at all actually, just the way he made it sound like it was MY fault. He generally seemed like it was a bad day for him, and he was irritated that I was bringing in something which wasn't worth fixing or anything. In the end i traded i recycled an old iPod thats been sitting around forever.
It wasnt the typical Genius happy feelings I feel every time I see a Genius, but I'm just going to pass it off as a bad moment for him, i'm not mad or anything, just saying, its a fact-I brought a Nano with pretty much the same problem in there 2 weeks ago, and for him to say that he has never seen that problem before isn't really believeable to me. Maybe he just forgot...but when I brought in the other Nano he told me it was most likely the LB....so I came back to the same guy and he says he knows nothing about it. Maybe he forgot, but to be honest, i've gotten support with this Genius before, he seems in a big hury to tell people to get rid of their old macs/iPods and buy new. Not that I blame him.

But in the end its just my particular opinions.

You know, the thing is that there will be good and bad people in every organization. It's not fair for me to presume because I had one bad experience its a "common problem".

And Apple is generally pretty good - their stores, their genius bars, and their products of course do stand out above many other options (ever try to get your Microsoft machine serviced or solve some technical problem?). But I do think that Apple grows bigger and more popular their service is suffering, which is probably inevitable.

But the reason I posted this originally is in taking responsibility - which is not a hard thing to do. Sure, not every tech support will know every problem - but when you raise the problem to them they sure as heck can do a search and see that 100's or 1000's of others are having similar problems.

In this particular case, iTunes 7.6 is causing a lot of problems for a lot of people - and in my case, and many other postings Apple staff have claimed it's the first they've heard of it.

Why can't they simply step up and say "there is a big problem, and we're working on it".

stanleyrob said:

Why can't they simply step up and say "there is a big problem, and we're working on it".

Click to expand...

No one else has said anything here about 7.6 that I'm aware of so I still don't see how "big" of a problem it is. Like any other problem Apple had with its software, they're figuring a way out to fix it. I would think that's a given.

If you don't like 7.6, delete it and download 7.5 again from the support page. At least they give you the option of reverting back in the meantime.

Or would you feel completely better with the situation is someone said "We're working on it"?

Maybe apple is running into the MS driver issues... so many platforms to support, it gets hard to do. Whats the lowest machine+OS iTunes will run on, and how many newer machine/OS combos are there from that time?!

fleurya said:

Haven't had a single problem with mine on either Windows or Mac.

Click to expand...

Same here

I have issues sometimes with the itunes store, I have like 3 songs that won't download but they charged me for them. All the others downloaded, when I contacted apple they said, "It must be a networking issue on your end, we've not had any responses similar to yours," when I said that all the others downloaded fine except those three the rep said, "Sorry we are unable to assist you at this time," and hung up on me.