Can I do this to save cost?

Kola · Dec 9, 2007

Hi,

Am most interested in making the switch from my PC to a Mac Pro sometime next year.

I am an I.T tech but only ever worked on PCs. I want a mac to branch out to web design as PCs crash all the time hence how I.T techs all work with PCs (hey, kept me in a job, thanks Bill;D )

1 - OK, if I buy the cheapest spec'd Mac pro and buy the better CPUs and a mountain of RAM else where for half the price the Apple site and retailers offer them for here in the UK can I fit all this just like I would a normal PC?

2 - Does the CPUs have to be the same model? IE could I use a 3.0 g Dual core CPU with a 2.66 quad core?

louishen · Dec 9, 2007

I would buy the extra ram by any means.

As for the processor, a 2.66 quad processor is more than enough for web work. I would see how you get along with the mac pro before meddling with the CPU.

In the past - Macs have generally been much harder to do CPU upgrades on. If you are going to update the processor do some research first, make sure someone else on the web has been successful rather than being the Guinea pig yourself

enjoy your new mac first, but when you are ready maybe this page will help

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6

Kola · Dec 9, 2007

Hi mate,

Dont think I made my first post too clear.

The Mac mini is not expandable so out of the Q. The Imac comes with built in monitor so also out of the Q.

So, if I go the Mac route I will have to got the Mac pro route.

I Want to buy the cheapest Mac Pro I can get (IE the standard options) but know I can upgrade it to the full spec if I require.

BTW - Can you explain how upgrading the CPU be any diffrent than a PC? Seems as its an Intel CPU how going to the relevant socket how can this be any harder or more difficult than the exact same PC CPU?

Thanks for the link m8 :Smirk:

bryphotoguy · Dec 9, 2007

To get the cheapest Mac Pro today, find one refurbished from the Apple website. I paid $2360 with a 9% tax and shipping was free. If you can wait a few months, everyone thinks there will be a replacement to the current Mac Pro's. This will drop the price on the current Mac Pro's significantly until Apple runs out of stock. But it's a rumor now so I wouldn't necessarily wait just to save a couple hundred dollars on an off chance you can pick one up cheaper.
btw, if Apple does release newer Mac Pro's, the price points will be the same. They never lower the prices on their computers.

You could buy the model with the 7300GT graphics card but replacing it with the ATi card will run about $400 so it'd be nice to get a model with it already installed.

As for the HD, get the 250GB HD. You can find 500GB HD's for $100 these days. newegg.com always has the best prices.

As for RAM, get the 1GB and install the rest yourself. Again, newegg.com for good prices. Tiger Direct also has some good prices right now.

If you need a second SuperDrive, OWC has a Pioneer SuperDrive for $40.

If you want to ever upgrade the processors, you should be able to. I've seen some photos of someone doing it. But they said it was super hard to do. It didn't seem like something just anyone could do. But it should work with any processor that has the same socket. I don't know how helpful it would be to try and toss in two different processors of different speeds. I assume they would work faster if they were the same. Unless you're doing high end video work, the difference between the Quad 2.66GHz and Quad 3.0GHz is minimal. I don't know of any other processor to upgrade to unless the processors from the 8-Core Mac Pro could be used.... But yea, you could use the same processors PC's use, as long as they are the same socket.

Kola · Dec 9, 2007

To get the cheapest Mac Pro today, find one refurbished from the Apple website. I paid $2360 with a 9% tax and shipping was free. If you can wait a few months, everyone thinks there will be a replacement to the current Mac Pro's. This will drop the price on the current Mac Pro's significantly until Apple runs out of stock. But it's a rumor now so I wouldn't necessarily wait just to save a couple hundred dollars on an off chance you can pick one up cheaper.

Im from the UK m8. Prices here are never that generous.

You could buy the model with the 7300GT graphics card but replacing it with the ATi card will run about $400 so it'd be nice to get a model with it already installed.

As for the HD, get the 250GB HD. You can find 500GB HD's for $100 these days. newegg.com always has the best prices.

As for RAM, get the 1GB and install the rest yourself. Again, newegg.com for good prices. Tiger Direct also has some good prices right now.

If you need a second SuperDrive, OWC has a Pioneer SuperDrive for $40.

I forgot to mention I work as an I.T tech and build/fix PCs for a living. I know these are macs but upgrading must be the same eh?

If you want to ever upgrade the processors, you should be able to. I've seen some photos of someone doing it. But they said it was super hard to do. It didn't seem like something just anyone could do. But it should work with any processor that has the same socket.

I cant see how it can be any diff to whipping one out, removing thermal paste, re applying thermal past and whipping one back in. Can it really be that much different to what I do daily on PCs as an I.T tech?

Unless you're doing high end video work, the difference between the Quad 2.66GHz and Quad 3.0GHz is minimal

The different would be totally unnoticeable unless on paper by way of bench mark. At work one we (only last month) proved this by getting two identical Dell PCs except for CPU. In one we put an intel core 2 duo 1 GHz diff between the other super latest n greatest 3 Ghz CPU.

Out of the ten people we tried not one would bet on which was faster as asked to do so as no one could tell. DO do a fair test we used I.T literate people form our dept and used a multitude of different apps from encoding audio and video to general OS use and 5 mins of gaming.

From that day on as long as the caches etc are the same I will always get the lower GHz by 1gig from the latest and greatest to ensure best value for money and no noticeable performance loss.

Thanks for your detailed reply m8, appreciated

ijiskimg · Dec 9, 2007

they still do apple refurbs here in the uk, and superdrives are pretty cheap if you look hard enough.

bryphotoguy · Dec 10, 2007

If you can't find a refurbished Mac Pro, go with the the base 2.66GHz model and get the ATI X1900 XT card installed.
Like I said, get the vid card installed at time of purchase. You could try and use an X1900 XT card for PC but you will have to flash it for Mac. If you mess up any part of the process, the card will instantly go bad and it will be permanent. Any old PC video card will not work.
Like I said, you could use PC processors as long as they are the same socket. Getting the heat sinks off is a very difficult process. It isn't as simple as snapping off the connecter with a flat head screw driver and moving the arm to unlock the processor. Do a google search. I had found a tutorial on how to remove a Mac Pro processor. There are many steps and it's a difficult, but do-able task. I think getting to the processor took 2 or 3 pages of description....
But I don't think you can install a 2.66GHz processor and a 3.0GHz processor on one machine. The processors work together, not independently. I would assume since they work together, the faster processor will work slower to compensate for the slower speed of the 2.66GHz processor so there isn't a bottleneck of data waiting on the 3.0GHz side.
Here are the Geekbench score for the Mac Pro's. Geekbench only tests RAM and processor speeds....
Quad 2.GHz - 3894
Quad 2.66GHz - 5014
Quad 3.0GHz - 5516
8-Core 3.0GHz - 8616
As you can see, there is a far larger difference between the 2.0GHz and the 2.66Ghz compared to the 2.66GHz and the 3.0GHz. IMO, the Quad 3.0GHz isn't worth the extras cost. If you're willing to give the processor swap a try, it might be worth it when the prices drop.

So, to save costs, get the Mac Pro 2.66GHz configured with the minimum RAM, HD, and with the X1900 XT video card. Upgrade the RAM and HD's yourself and I will see if I can find that tutorial for the processor swap. I will take some digging though.

Kola · Dec 10, 2007

Cheers m8, thanks for the info

So, to save costs, get the Mac Pro 2.66GHz configured with the minimum RAM, HD, and with the X1900 XT video card. Upgrade the RAM and HD's yourself and I will see if I can find that tutorial for the processor swap. I will take some digging though.

This will be what I do. I hate paying over the nose for anything. One day when I'm established enough it wont matter :Cool:

Can macs use Nvidia graphics cards as opposed ATI?

hndcvcboi · Dec 10, 2007

Kola said:
Hi,

Am most interested in making the switch from my PC to a Mac Pro sometime next year.

I am an I.T tech but only ever worked on PCs. I want a mac to branch out to web design as PCs crash all the time hence how I.T techs all work with PCs (hey, kept me in a job, thanks Bill;D )

1 - OK, if I buy the cheapest spec'd Mac pro and buy the better CPUs and a mountain of RAM else where for half the price the Apple site and retailers offer them for here in the UK can I fit all this just like I would a normal PC?

2 - Does the CPUs have to be the same model? IE could I use a 3.0 g Dual core CPU with a 2.66 quad core?

The memory is the easy part. Just buy the brand/price point that you can afford and it will work.

As for the CPU it depends on how the Apple EFI firmware (BIOS equivalent) handles the upgrade. I would assume that as long as the socket is compatible and the processor is in the same family it will work. For instance they keep upgrading the MBP line to faster processors but aside from the CPU the hardware remains the same. This indicates that the motherboard in mine will accept a faster CPU at some point in the future which I plan to do myself.

Let us know how you make out should you decide to try this.....

PerryLynch · Dec 10, 2007

I've read many articles where people have upgraded from one processor to two identical processors, and I've read a few articles where people have successfully upgraded from one processor to two faster processors on the same motherboard. But I've never read any articles where people have successfully used two different processors on a dual-proc motherboard.

I think, that somehow, even if the system powered up and ran? You'd be finding some pretty bizarre instabilities hidden along the way.

That being said, if you ever pull that one off? Please let us know.

hndcvcboi · Dec 10, 2007

PerryLynch said:
I've read many articles where people have upgraded from one processor to two identical processors, and I've read a few articles where people have successfully upgraded from one processor to two faster processors on the same motherboard. But I've never read any articles where people have successfully used two different processors on a dual-proc motherboard.

I think, that somehow, even if the system powered up and ran? You'd be finding some pretty bizarre instabilities hidden along the way.

That being said, if you ever pull that one off? Please let us know.

It's hard to tell by his original post but my understanding is that he will be replacing the original CPU with one faster one or even two identical faster ones. If that's the case then he should have no problems.

bryphotoguy · Dec 10, 2007

Kola said:
Cheers m8, thanks for the info

This will be what I do. I hate paying over the nose for anything. One day when I'm established enough it wont matter

Can macs use Nvidia graphics cards as opposed ATI?

The Mac Pro currently supports only 3 graphics cards. They are the NVIDIA 7300GT which is only a 256MB card and pretty weak for video work, the ATI X1900 XT, and the NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500. The 7300GT is the budget card and the ATI card is the most popular. The bandwidth on the Quadro is smaller 33.6GB/sec vs 41.6GB/sec for the X1900XT. But the Quadro has a higher fill rate. I don't know if anyone has the Quadro card in the computer on these forums. It doesn't seem like a popular option.
One thing to note is the 7300GT will only support 1- 30" monitor, the other two cards can support 2- 30" monitors. Also the other cards have large fans so the can get noisy and are double wide cards. If you decide to add more cards, they will block PCI slots.