Buying a Mac or regular PC?: A Detailed View

Hello people!

I realise that by posting this on a Mac forum will get me either shouted at, obvious opinions on the subject or both. I had to since you're probably the most fanatic Mac users and CAN give me a decent opinion


Summarized: Am I going to buy

a nice iMac: €1600, pretty, awesome, just a screen
or
a computer that is seriously faster, €1400


What I'd like of you is to read the next info and try to give me an somewhat objective answer on the subject

I'd appreciate any answer, feedback or information on the subject a lot! Right now I could go with either


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My hobbies include some gaming, photography, designing. So it must be able to play some new games decently, and Lightroom / Photoshop / Indesign must work fast.


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FIRST OPTION: REGULAR PC
Price: € 1400

This PC would be built by myself, is based on a Buyers Guide by tweakers.net (those guys know what they're talking about).


Processor: e6850 core2 duo 3.0ghz 4mb
Memory: 4 x 1gig
Graphics card: 2 x Club3D GeForce 8800 GT (512MB)

Also included in that price is a dvdburner, a 10000rpm harddrive, good sound card, network card, the case, motherboard and everything else needed.

I need to stress that this is just an example of what you could do with € 1400. Any other/better combination of hardware could be used.

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SECOND OPTION: AN IMAC
Price: € 1600

Processor: 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Memory: 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1 GB
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory

Also included is an okay DVD burner, keyboard, network adapter etc


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COMPARED

Reasons why I'd love a Mac:

- Golly they're pretty and nice

- Anything I'd still like to do in Windows, I can with Bootcamp

- No wires, no huge pc next to your desk, no crap, just one pretty device.


Reasons why I don't just go "Whoopey!" and buy one:

- Although pretty much the same price, the regular PC is obviously way faster.
A 10000 rpm drive, twice the memory, a faster processor...

- I need that power to play games and junk, but also to make sure this baby lasts for years to come!

- I'd feel silly if I spent more money on a slower pc ?

- Except for the memory I'm pretty sure you can't easily change hardware in a Mac. Not interesting now, but in the future it might?

A Macintosh is a regular Personal Computer (PC).

Software.

The PC you specced is something that looke like it would be a gaming powerhouse.

an iMac will play games, but the availability is limited COMPARED to Windows games. There are a ton of games out there for OS X. They're not always the latest and greatest, but they're out there.

What do you want to do with it? I have two Windows computers, one a desktop and one a notebook. I game on the notebook, (i lied about the other) I'm trying to install a Linux server on the desktop, and my third computer is a Macbook Pro. I use the MBP for recording bands and artists with Logic. I also use the MBP for photoshopping and picture stuff. It's actually at a disadvantage compared to my dell notebook as I was using as the calibration is a bit more off and the screen is 15" @ 1440x900 compared to my dell at 17" @ 1920x1200; I just prefer the way Photoshop operates on OS X and is not confined to one window.

A Macintosh is a regular Personal Computer (PC).

Yes. Using the word 'regular' to impy I'm not talking about a Mac, not implying anything else.


The PC is specified is indeed high-end. This is because I want it to last for years, I don't want to buy another in three years!

Games are fun but not that important to me, I don't have the need to play every new game in the next three years on highest quality

With the PC you mentioned, I believe aren't getting a 24" monitor like with the iMac? That is something you should consider.

Throw in a 24" monitor with the PC and it might be a little more expensive, and even the price score a little.

If a monitor isn't a worry for you, you could wait a little while (1-6 months) for the Mac Pro to upgrade. But that is probably around 2200 $/Euro for you. After the upgrade it should be much faster and more able to play games on. Just for stats sake, right now it has 4, 3.0 Ghz processors and it will only get faster after that update.

Just my two cents.

Get the Mac........

You also won't have to bog down the Mac with spyware and anti-virus software. You won't have to worry about constant critical updates with XP or Vista...

Just my 2 dinars......

Don't worry. With Vista eating up all those CPU cycles, your Mac will turn out to be just as fast as the PC.

Some pros for the Mac I can think of right now:
- Mac OS X! (and all the perks that come with it)
- Silent operation
- No fiddling around inside
- Amazing support (at least in my country)
- Looks sleek and has no clutter
- power saving
I'm sure there are a lot more...

No BSOD's!

thanks for comments

20" monitor: Doesn't take away the performance issue, but yes, you're right the price would be about even or more!

Vista: Don't think I'll be installing that, even with a superduper fast pc

Mac Pro: It's nice, but I can't really go much over €1600

Silent, no fiddling, sleek: Yes, all the reasons I'm considering a Mac

Spyware, antivirus, error and BSOD: Yes, but I'd like to keep those out of the equation, not interested in that aspect!

If you are seriously interested in the powerhouse machine, the iMac is never going to fully whet your appetite. If you are just putting it there because it is something you could build, but having a hard core machine really isn't your thing... then iMac may be a good option.

Also, I have absolutely no spyware/antivirus software running on my windows machines - it is sitting behind a hardware firewall though - and I have absolutely no issues with it.

I hate to say it, but it is still true:
hardcore gaming = windows
hardcore machines on the cheap != mac
sleek design with minimal issues and superb resale value = mac

You are going to be able to do just about anything else on either platform. Media/Play/Work/etc.

MACyMouse said:

No BSOD's!

Click to expand...

Last time I saw one of those was because I tried to OC my graphics card 3x's it's original specs...

BSOD's are not very common any more on new machines that are setup right and have proper hardware drivers. What about Kernel panics? You still get those with OS X.

There's trade offs with every system but some people are a lot more biased towards one system over the next.

If you like the software that an iMac offers, get it. You can still run windows, but you won't have the performance of the afore mentioned PC. Then again, you won't notice a huge performance gain unless you're playing games or running apps that are heavily dependant on GPU or CPU power. It's not like having a 3.0 c2d and a 10k drive will make windows load immediately. Sure it'll load faster, but what's ten or twenty seconds out of your life

And if you're any kind of knowledgable computer user, viruses, spyware, adware, and BSODs will not be an issue. I've not had any protection on my Dell notebook running Vista Ultimate for about a year and a half. I have no issues at all with it. Unfortunately, I get more crashes with OS X and Ubuntu programs than I do on my Vista machine. The only real program I've had problems with is EQ II and it always "quits unexpectedly" when you finally exit out of the program.

thanks kirby14 / village idiot

If you are just putting it there because it is something you could build, but having a hard core machine really isn't your thing... then iMac may be a good option.

Click to expand...

This is pretty much exactly my problem!

Do I need that fast of a machine? Not now. So. I could get a Mac.
But what if say, the year is 2014, boughtaMac-me might have problems with the latest high demanding software, while boughtaregularPC-me is still going strong?

And then I think, well is that going to happen? Or even matter then?

Right now I'm pretty much leaning over to the Mac side of town


(PS: I've been talking about Bootcamp but actually I ment Parrallels!)

2014 - roflol - sorry - technology advances

Advice you've already gotten is pretty sound.
You want someone to tell you that you won't feel the need to upgrade even 3 years from now - no one can tell you that. I don't care which one you end up going with.

In my little over 25 years computing experience, I have so far never made it to 2 years on a single system for my own personal use (as my primary day to day system). At the same time we have 7 yr old P3's running at the office, and still perfectly competent for what we do there. My wife's 4 yr old Dell, still totally adequate for the work she does on her system.

I can tell you, if you catch the hardware bug and start building your own, overclocking, reading reviews, watching the latest and greatest stuff that comes out and and keep track of how much better and faster it is than that 2 yr old pos - you'll never last 2 years on a single system either.

My wife, been using computers for maybe about 12 years or so - she can't tell you what the difference is between c2d 2.4 with a 256MB and a 500GB. It's all greek to her. By the time a system is outdated to me, she's using one that's 2 yrs older than mine and says there's nothing wrong with it, works great.

Can tell you, if you get the iMac - you'll be in love for a while. Even more than the one you put together with your own hands. Especially if all you've ever used is windows.

have you included a copy of windows vista in that price for your PC and also do you know how to build a pc and get all the bits to work because you have to take that into consideration

Don't get vista, it's complete crap. I use both XP and OSX every day (I have been a Windows user for most of my life) and I don't know how much you know about previous Windows versions, but Vista is like the new Windows ME. It's not fair to compare it to anything except maybe OS9.

And to the people talking about BSODs, I have had more kernel panic errors (the one with the black overlay telling you to reboot) on OSX in the last 3 months than I've had BSODs on Windows in the last five years.

And at least with the windows kernel panic error, it tells you what's wrong! The OSX error message provides no information at all except that something bad has happened.

That is my biggest problem with Macs - even if most of them are slightly more reliable than Windows computers, it is because everything is sorted out for you by one company instead of being able to mix and match the parts you want.

Also, OSX gives you much fewer tools for fixing problems yourselves. Since they are geared towards people with little to no knowledge about computers, the OS doesn't give you as many tools that can screw things up if used incorrectly.

Windows may be less reliable on the whole but it instead of insisting they "Just Work", Microsoft knows that no software is perfect, especially when running on an eclectic combination of hardware, so they build in more tools for fixing problems or working around them. I was amazed the first time my Macbook's keyboard stopped working and I realized there was no on-screen-keyboard application, like XP has.

XP is a resource hog, but there are a lot of resources available out of the box to trim things down. If you want pretty and flashy, definitely get a Mac. If you are more concerned with a computer that can do stuff, get a PC.

And as far as gaming is concerned - Windows machines are without a doubt more suited to gaming, as most computer games are coded with windows-oriented hardware in mind, since the vast majority of gamers have PCs. It's kind of cyclical, but that's the way it is. And frankly, I think that the idea of agonizing over buying a PC or Mac, buying a Mac, and then using dual-boot for half the things you want to do is pretty funny.

Lowbart - I'm just the opposite... had more XP crashes and freezes with XP... haven't had one kernel panic on my Mac... the only kp's I've ever had were from the macs I used at work. Even then they were far and few between. Really all depends on what each person has running on their systems.

first of: thanks for comments

Some of my arguments or concerns might seem irrelevant or not that important, but I'm just trying to cover all fronts on this one. I don't want to make a mistake, can't afford it

Buy a pc every 3 years: I've had my current PC for 7 years, but upgraded the memory, graphics card, DVD burner, USB2. Just an example why I brought up the subject.

Vista: Like said before: not buying it.

Building the pc: One of the reasons why a Mac would be awesome: none of that crap. Should I however choose to build one, I know people who can, so that's no problem.

Your comments did help, I reviewed my own day to day work on a pc and figured pretty much 80% of the time I don't need extreme performance or anything and the other 20% is Photoshop etc. which the iMac will do just fine.

lowbart said:

Don't get vista, it's complete crap. I use both XP and OSX every day (I have been a Windows user for most of my life) and I don't know how much you know about previous Windows versions, but Vista is like the new Windows ME. It's not fair to compare it to anything except maybe OS9.

And to the people talking about BSODs, I have had more kernel panic errors (the one with the black overlay telling you to reboot) on OSX in the last 3 months than I've had BSODs on Windows in the last five years.

And at least with the windows kernel panic error, it tells you what's wrong! The OSX error message provides no information at all except that something bad has happened.

Click to expand...

Read the logs. More here.

That is my biggest problem with Macs - even if most of them are slightly more reliable than Windows computers, it is because everything is sorted out for you by one company instead of being able to mix and match the parts you want.

Click to expand...

You just said it yourself, having control over the hardware and OS make sit more stable.

Also, OSX gives you much fewer tools for fixing problems yourselves. Since they are geared towards people with little to no knowledge about computers, the OS doesn't give you as many tools that can screw things up if used incorrectly.

Click to expand...

Check out Apple Support and the Knowledge Base articles. The restore disk has Apple's Hardware Test.

Windows may be less reliable on the whole but it instead of insisting they "Just Work", Microsoft knows that no software is perfect, especially when running on an eclectic combination of hardware, so they build in more tools for fixing problems or working around them. I was amazed the first time my Macbook's keyboard stopped working and I realized there was no on-screen-keyboard application, like XP has.

Click to expand...

The logs must have reported something.

XP is a resource hog, but there are a lot of resources available out of the box to trim things down. If you want pretty and flashy, definitely get a Mac. If you are more concerned with a computer that can do stuff, get a PC.

Click to expand...

Wow! So you wanted something that could only be pretty and flashy?

And as far as gaming is concerned - Windows machines are without a doubt more suited to gaming, as most computer games are coded with windows-oriented hardware in mind, since the vast majority of gamers have PCs. It's kind of cyclical, but that's the way it is. And frankly, I think that the idea of agonizing over buying a PC or Mac, buying a Mac, and then using dual-boot for half the things you want to do is pretty funny.

Click to expand...

Sorry but Windows machines are not more suited. If game developers were willing to use OpenGL instead of going straight for DirectX, then doing a horrible job on porting the code to Mac, the Mac might have a chance in getting decent games.

It used to be that games were developed for both platforms, then the era of porting started with all the slowdowns this implies. Then the era of pleasing shareholders more than the gamers themselves took over.

Of course, Jobs could do a better job of making it easier for game devs to code for Mac, but not too many of them are interested to start with.

There are also indie game developers the Mac community has never or hardly ever heard of, but they are there. Small shareware game developers like Freeverse, Ambrosia, etc.

I've updated my first post, which changes the situation.

My question now: buy a nice iMac for 1600 or a PC - that's just as fast and with a 22" screen - for € 600 less?

I'll ask you a question now. What is speed? Is it CPU cycles or an photoshop filter test? Or is it getting your work done, whatever it may be, in the most efficient and quick way? And by work, I mean anything from entertainment to web surfing or even gaming. Of course in the case of gaming, the 'work' is done best by a fast Windows PC. But according to many of us here, Mac OS X + Mac provides for the best environment to work with most of the common tasks associated with a computer.

Now sure you might be able to buy a faster CPU with the same amount of money, but is it actually giving you that much more speed?

[Btw, you forgot to add the cost of Antivirus to that regular PC of yours...]