Mac or PC - What the same money can buy

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Title should be "Mac Mini or PC - What the same money can buy"
OK, I really want to move on to Mac but just can not justify dropping the $$$$ (already have a wide-screen LCD) on an iMac.

How about the basic Mac mini ($599) with 2GB RAM ?
Do you think this would be powerful enough, I mean compare to what the money can buy from say Dell/HP ?

One thing I will do is running a Windows virtual machine and maybe a Linux one.

thanks
 
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If you compare equally spece'd machines from Apple, Dell and HP you will find that the prices are all in-line with each other to within a few hundred dollars.

Comparing a low end Dell with a P4 to a C2D iMac is just stupid, and you're not getting more for your money by any means.
 
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matelot.
Yes, it's worth it. And you can't really buy that much more from HP, Dell, without a sale. True, when it's a sale you can get up to $450 off an HP computer, while you will end up paying the full price for MAC.
But, as far as I am concerned, you get a lot of benefits. I just bought an iMAc, so I don't have the stupid processor tower anymore. there are some PCs like that, but, the model of Sony costs $300 more than iMac.
The interface is just amazing. Windows looks like a boring old thing in comparison.
If you don't care about the looks, then maybe it's not worth it...
 
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matelot
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side question,

XP vs OSX which one has a higher memory footprint ?
 
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matelot.
Yes, it's worth it. And you can't really buy that much more from HP, Dell, without a sale. True, when it's a sale you can get up to $450 off an HP computer, while you will end up paying the full price for MAC.
But, as far as I am concerned, you get a lot of benefits. I just bought an iMAc, so I don't have the stupid processor tower anymore. there are some PCs like that, but, the model of Sony costs $300 more than iMac.
The interface is just amazing. Windows looks like a boring old thing in comparison.
If you don't care about the looks, then maybe it's not worth it...

and I guess (or I always have the impression) that those that get heavy price-drops are very possibly just cheap craps
 
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are you adding in: firewall, virus scanner, time you would take to download and restart for a majority of installs, all the security needed for a pc... the things like voice that come standard in osx or isn't needed much at all that you would have to pay for or go searching the net or stores for (even tho there are lots more free alterns for pc, they don't tend to have the versatility and cool options that mac progs have, even the free ones are better) then the emotional and productivity stuff... the list goes on O:)

I also won't get too much into the probs for work done on warranty.... I spent just over 2 mos daily trying to get them to deal with faulty hardware on my presario and when they finally did do it they sent the wrong hd on a computer they had just replaced and then the install disks were missing progs to which they responded "pay $10 and we'll send you a new one". It's also well known that both dell and hp don't use quality parts and quite a few buy upgrades (video and sound are both onboard).

You might be one of the lucky ones, but mac is priced the way it is cause it gives you the option to expand/upgrade (IMHO) but also quality if you don't... most macs last loooooooong. PC's are priced cause they tend to be made disposable and not simply upgradeable. Mac's also are 'made' to totally network easily (and are more tolerant of pc progs whereas that isn't the case with pc, you need to spend extra (minimum is crossover ethernet, macs can use standard ethernet cord-they are built intelligent and compatible).
 
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side question,

XP vs OSX which one has a higher memory footprint ?

Just booting up the OSs?

OSX 10.4.10 is just over 100MB of real ram. I haven't checked Vista or XP.
 

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Just booting up the OSs?

OSX 10.4.10 is just over 100MB of real ram. I haven't checked Vista or XP.

XP Pro SP2 on average with nothing else running takes around 150 MB plus at boot up. Vista Ultimate here on every system I tried it on was 490 MB or more with not even one thing running at first boot.
 
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Just booting up the OSs?

OSX 10.4.10 is just over 100MB of real ram. I haven't checked Vista or XP.

that is about the same as Ubuntu 7.04
 
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How about this, I just bought a mbp, with tiger, but oh no, the new os is out... oh but thats ok, for 100$ i can get the latest operating system... leopard... but that dell that my father bought a few weeks before vista was released... uh-** :( 400$ upgrade...
 
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and I guess (or I always have the impression) that those that get heavy price-drops are very possibly just cheap craps

You really have to take the time to look at it carefully.

You can't generalise and say a cheap computer is crap because it's cheap. It may be, but sometimes you really do get a bargain.

I bought a couple of HP proliant servers a few weeks ago for about $500 each. They are good solid servers, exactly what I needed, but they're older models - first launched in 2005. I plugged a few cheap sticks of RAM into them and they are absolutely fine.

After the upgrades, they still worked out to be a couple of bucks cheaper than a Mac mini.
 
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You're attitude is perhaps a little waywards. Do you WANT a Mac, or do are you approaching this like an accountant?

Some people say Macs are more expensive than Dells, some say they are about the same. But it's not comparing like for like. Nobody didn't buy a BMW or Mercedes because they thought they could get a Ford for cheaper.

Look at the Apple website pages and decide whether you really want one or not.
 
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I've looked at it like this. Apple dosen't make an e-Machines level computer. If you want to get something that can get on the internet and not much else, you can spend $300 for a Celeron class box and that'll be that.

As mentioned earlier, Macs are the Luxury Cars of the computer world. With Apple products, you're getting a machine engineered to perform at a certain level, provide certain ammenities and have a specific style.

So the question is, do you want a Geo Metro, a Ford Tarus, or a BMW M5?
Your choice...

-MikeM
 
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I like the way you put that MikeM and Alexis!
 
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The often used car analogies are weak.
Not to mention that most of them used are severely unbalanced and incredulous. One computer is not a $15,000 Ford and the other is not a $50,000 Benz. Macs are not overpriced foreign luxury cars and Dells (et al) are not some drab domestic vehicle.

Dells, HP's, and Macs all use pretty much the same innards. Same processors, same RAM, same HD's, same optical drives... etc.
If you were going to use the car analogy, it would more like comparing a Ford to a Lincoln.

The Ford Crown Victoria and the Lincoln Town Car are about 85% to 90% the same car. They use the same frame, have the same measurements, and can get serviced with the exact same parts.
A Crown Victoria's MSRP is around $25,000. A Town Car's MSRP is around $40,000. Only a $15,000 difference opposed to the heavily unbalanced $35,000 one in the previous comparison.
Still... why does the Town Car cost more?
Well, you do get more "extras" and amenities with the Town Car that you simply don't get with the standard Crown Vic. Can you add some of these things to the Crown Vic? Sure, but with the addition of those extras the cost goes up bringing it closer to match that of the Town Car. Will a Crown Vic ever really be the exact same as a Town Car? No, it won't. Is one car "better" than the other? That is subjective and a matter of opinion.

Same goes for a Mac and a Dell (et al). You can spec out a Dell to match a Mac point for point on the hardware end and when you do the cost comes closer to balancing out. Yet, even though they still use about 85% to 90% of the same materials in their creation, they will never be exactly the same. Is one better than the other? You might think one is "more aesthetic" or that one "works better" for you, but that doesn't mean that they aren't the same thing on the inside, hardware wise.
 
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The often used car analogies are weak.
Not to mention that most of them used are severely unbalanced and incredulous. One computer is not a $15,000 Ford and the other is not a $50,000 Benz. Macs are not overpriced foreign luxury cars and Dells (et al) are not some drab domestic vehicle.

Well, to keep up my Car analogy, ultimately every car company has a luxury brand. Ford has Lincoln, GM has Cadillac and Toyota has Lexus. For Computers, Dell has their XPS line, HP has their Elite series and so on. These companies make high end products, but their base market is in average level cars and computers.

Apple dosen't have an average system.

Neither does BMW. The lowest Bimmer is going to be on par with a mid level offering of a Ford/GM/etc... and so is the same with Apple. An iMac's hardware is on Par with a mid-upper level Dell. Even the Mac Mini (Which is Apple's lowest cost system) is much higher on the food chain then Dell's lowest system.

Can you get a Dell that is as good as an Apple, sure you can. That's not the point. Dell covers the full spectrum, Apple does not.

Like it or not, Apple is a luxury brand. If not, then where is the Celeron based Mac Mini? Where can I find a stripped down Mac for $300 brand new? Where is OSX Leopard Home Basic Edition? You won't find it.

Apple caters to a specific market that expects more and there are costs involved with that. Part of the cost is for aesthetics, part is for the performance and part is for the quality.

We're not just computer users, we're Mac users.

-MikeM
 
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that is about the same as Ubuntu 7.04


Wow I can't believe that Ubuntu and osx use the same amount of ram. I never would have thought that. I'm also surprised vista is such a memory hog. Hearing this makes me like my mac even more. I've been a hard sell. I've always been a windows then linux guy. I'm frugal and Macs always seemed like they were just overpriced because they were pretty and trendy. After having my mbp for just over a month I'm convinced. I'm already thinking of getting the 24" imac. So I'd have to say yes it's worth it. Mainly for the operating system. I've found I can do things more efficiently on my Mac. I do a lot of heavy multimedia work and it really goes faster. I'm always looking for ways to streamline my work flow and I've found that once I figured out the OS I was able to really speed things up. I think thats my main point. You are buying a very superior operating system. The hardware is just in the background running smoothly.

Anyone know how much ram is used by Leopard?
 

nZa


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If you compare equally spece'd machines from Apple, Dell and HP you will find that the prices are all in-line with each other to within a few hundred dollars.

well when the machine only costs $600, a few hundred dollars is a pretty huge difference, am i right?
 
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The people who argue about specs v. price are not the sort of people that Apple market to, which is something that MikeM hit on.

I work in a PC shop at the moment. I know, I know. Back, foul beast! Since I'm here alone today though I'm doing my accounts on my work PC and I have my MBP sitting next to me safe and warm in my case so I can swap once I've done the necessary.

The sort of PC shop we are though, we share a philosophy similar to Apple, in a way. We don't use crap gear. We don't load our PCs full of bloatware. We don't go for the cheapest options. We try and get the best value, best performance, best match for the customer who walks in the shop (all our systems are tailor made). And this is something that Apple does very well.

Anybody could buy an Apple computer and be VERY happy. They just might need to spend a little extra to get that - well, guess what, same with us.

Yes, the knowledgeable folk can go out and build their own PC. They can be their own support. Those that can't come to us, and we set everything up for them, so when they get it home, it works immediately. You pay more for that with us, you pay more for that with Apple.

There's something else too. You can deck out your home with kit all from the same manufacturer. Your hard drive fails? Go to the Apple store. Your Airport Base Station fails? Go to the Apple store. This, too, is something that is majorly overlooked. We get PC users come in with all manner of problems from all manner of manufacturers and the consensus is generally the same upon asking the question "have you tried telephoning <company>'s tech support?" "oh, they're completely useless."

Way I see it, what you get from Apple is a quality machine, indeed. That's only one part of it. They don't mess about with Celerons and AMDs for a very good reason: they want their machines to be smooth as anything because it keeps the customer happy and in turn means less 'aggro' for them! :p

The other part of it comes in when you take it home and it works right out of the box. Or when you upgrade your OS and you don't have to wipe it all and spend hours backing up your data. Or when something goes wrong and you can call one number, for anything. For me, if they are the sort of things that mean nothing to you, and you see things only in hardware terms, then maybe you won't be so content with splashing out the extra cash on an Apple.

If you consider your time 'free' then perhaps you would be more inclined toward a cheaper PC that you have to put a lot of effort into getting right. I don't consider my time free at all though; I work full-time and I don't want to have to work when I get home in order to get to a place where I can enjoy myself. I would rather spend a bit more money and just have fun.

It is so much more than a computer that you are buying. And the thing is, where I work, that is the battle I face every day, and people just don't want to listen. It's only when their £300 Dell fails or is riddled with spyware because no one told them better and they face shipping it to Ireland for three weeks that they think, 'maybe I should've bought it down the road'. But the simple fact is that those £300 PCs are killing us - PCs are disposable now, no one really cares about those extras anymore. Mac users do and something I honestly commend Apple for is RRPs and having, well, a standard pricing/spec balance.
 
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Its difficult to compare the cheapest mac (mini) with the cheapest PC

one the plus side with the mac you get:

Mac OS X pro business edition - well actually just OS X - everybody gets the full version

Built in firewall, Apache server, FTP for free

ilife , word processing, spreadsheets, slide shows et all included.

Imovie - make your own movies, and its a decent package not some dumbed down demo

No malware or viruses - cost in the time taken dealing with all that - but download clamx anyway just in case a virus pops up.

True plug and play (often literally - just plug a printer in)

Web site builder, Garagebandnd more

try getting all that lot pre installed on a dell
 

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