2.4 or 2.8 EXTREME

Sooooo Friday fast approaches..

I was goingto get a 2.8 EXTREME 24" iMac, but now I'm thinking of the 2.4 and saving the cash. Do you think the 2.8 is goingto be that much different for general use?

I would maybe like it for some games but you know what.. I haven't used my PC for games other than Age of Empires 2 and Star Craft for about 8 months now. So.. whilst I might think I want to play some RTS.. maybe its not that critical. HAve a 360 and Wii and DS anyway...

I'll definitely be using it for photo stuff.. and a little movie editing..

thoughts?

Its going to work out at a £200 saivng I reckon, which is a nice saving plus a 500Gb external disc for Time Machining..

I would also like to know as I'm in the market to buy an iMac in the next two week's and I only saw recently the EXTREME..

I like the size of the hdd and the 2G ram is always nice..

But I only use my MB at the best of times for chatting and photo's so I think it would be a bit of an over kill..

Thoughts on this would be helpfull.

Well, the basic math suggests that the 2.8 will only be 16.7% faster than the 2.4. That is not really all that significant. I have test driven the 2.4 24" iMacs. They are darn fast machines. I think you can save a bit of money and still be very pleased with the performance of your new 2.4 iMac.

For video games and video editing, your graphics card will make a bigger difference than the processor. Even then, the older games won't know a difference between a good card or a bad card since they'll be running at full speed on either.

Since the 2.4 and the 2.8 both come with the same graphics card, I'd go with the 2.4. If the 2.8 had a better graphics card, then it would be a tough call, but just for future use as it doesn't sound like you need EXTREME performance for anything right now.

You ready for Starcraft 2?

I doubt that the 2.8 is more than about 5-10% faster most of the time. Its not all about processor speed. The speed of any computer is a combination of cpu, memory, hard drive, chipset, video card and os. These two computers share everything but the processor. If it is something like encoding then it will be nearer the percentage difference but other tasks push one of the other components more so they would be the limiting factor. I use three macs regularly my main computer a mac pro quad 2.6 intel with 6gb ram, a mac mini 1.67 intel duo with 2Gb and a 1.33GHz ibook with 1.5Gb. Most of the time there is not really much difference in speed. Most of the time the computer is waiting for me to press the next button!

I would go for the 2.4 and max out the memory!

the 2.8 is a different processor than the 2.4
intel core 2 duo extreme vrs regular core 2 duo

amrk47 said:

the 2.8 is a different processor than the 2.4
intel core 2 duo extreme vrs regular core 2 duo

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What are you saying?

Sticking the word 'extreme' on the box doesn't make them quicker. They are from the same processor family and are the same except that on the extreme model the multiplier lock has been removed which allows you to run it at whatever speed it will run at. If you could unlock the 2.4 and the imac allowed you to change the multiplier then they would be the same thing.

All intel dual core processors have been pretty overclockable for some time. My main windows pc is an 805 2x2.66Ghz machine running totally completely stable at 3.6Ghz with nothing more than a decent quiet fan.

But back to my point the processor is just one cog in the machine, yes an important one, but still one cog. I doubt you would notice much difference between the two machines in actual use. You would get more performance spending the difference on more ram. I bet my quad 2.6 with 6gb is as fast as a quad 3.0 with 1Gb in most situations and cost less (using non apple ram!)

"Extreme" - what specifically does it add

If the "Extreme" is a different processor, what is the difference?

Cowasaki

Okay, I think you just answered my previous question. Which RAM would you recommend? (By the way, who makes Apple RAM?)

i thought there was a difference between core extreme and core2duo maybe not

i made an assumption that the extreme processor had possibly a faster bus speed, more onboard RAM and a faster clock speed. which was why in some tests it was just a bit faster than the 2.4 and in others it mushed it.. however I'm not sure thats a real world way of viewing it. Although there is no doubt you seem to get 20 more fps on gamss with the faster processor.

Maxing out the ram to 4GB is a frigthning amount of money, but I think I will get the 2.4GHz and then upgrade the RAM myself from Crucial. I'll also upgrade the internal hard disc on purchase to 500GB and then get a wireless mouse, wired keyboard, additional 500GB external USB drive, partridge in a pear tree and then hopefulyl.. be happy

one of the posts on this forum about 2not trying to use the mac like windows" worried me a bit. I guess its just learning a different mind set which could be fun!

I assume new imacs dont come with manuals that tell you how to use the OS in the same way PCs dont tend to?

Wombat33 said:

Okay, I think you just answered my previous question. Which RAM would you recommend? (By the way, who makes Apple RAM?)

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Ram is supposed to be Ram.

option 1 is to go to the web site of one of the top memory suppliers like Crucial or Kingston and write down the exact spec of ram then look round for a supplier that does the same ram cheaper in what is called GENERIC ram. It SHOULD work.

option 2 is the same as above but look round all the suppliers for kingston ram or crucail ram

option 3 is just to go straight to crucial or kingston and buy it

I have just upgraded my mac mini to use it as a server! and when I looked at the prices crucial was within a £1 of the cheapest price anyway because crucial had free postage at the time.

Apple WILL be very expensive and it is a very easy task to change the ram. Plus you could sell the genuine Apple ram you take out of your imac on ebay. It will make a nice upgrade to someone running a macbook or similar that started with less ram!

DB2k said:

i made an assumption that the extreme processor had possibly a faster bus speed, more onboard RAM and a faster clock speed. which was why in some tests it was just a bit faster than the 2.4 and in others it mushed it.. however I'm not sure thats a real world way of viewing it. Although there is no doubt you seem to get 20 more fps on gamss with the faster processor.

Maxing out the ram to 4GB is a frigthning amount of money, but I think I will get the 2.4GHz and then upgrade the RAM myself from Crucial. I'll also upgrade the internal hard disc on purchase to 500GB and then get a wireless mouse, wired keyboard, additional 500GB external USB drive, partridge in a pear tree and then hopefulyl.. be happy

one of the posts on this forum about 2not trying to use the mac like windows" worried me a bit. I guess its just learning a different mind set which could be fun!

I assume new imacs dont come with manuals that tell you how to use the OS in the same way PCs dont tend to?

Click to expand...

NO NO NO get the smallest hard drive you can from Apple. Buy a larger hard drive on line with an external fire wire box. Stick the new hard drive into the imac and stick the original hard drive into the fire wire box. You will save a packet. Mac OS will happily just re-install on the new hard drive, you really don't need much Apple experience to do that. Apple charge a BIG premium for their hard drive upgrades.

4Gb is a decent sized amount of RAM on a modern machine either PC or MAC. Remember that we are dealing with much bigger amounts of data now over what we dealt with previously. One RAW picture from my camera is massive ie 10.1Mpixel with 16/32 bits PER pixel! Anything note used by the software will be used by the OS as a drive cache so speeding everything else up

I am glad Apple do not provide manuals. You can buy them seperately. If they did supply them then they would have to incorporate the price of doing so within the cost of the machine. Several of us run 2 or 3 machines. I have a mac pro and a laptop plus a mac mini as a server and attached to my TV. Plus my wife and kids all have a macbook! We do not need 7 manuals!!

DB2k said:

i made an assumption that the extreme processor had possibly a faster bus speed, more onboard RAM and a faster clock speed. which was why in some tests it was just a bit faster than the 2.4 and in others it mushed it.. however I'm not sure thats a real world way of viewing it. Although there is no doubt you seem to get 20 more fps on gamss with the faster processor.

Click to expand...

Thats intels really good marketing for you! Also it is seriously confusing having several lines of processors at the same time! On a PC it is worth getting an extreme and maxing it out by overclocking it till it falls over then throttling it back till it is 100% stable. I got a massive boost on my PC from 2.66 to 3.6 doing just that but you can't overclock an Apple machine easily so I would say paying that premium to go from a 2.4 to 2.8 is not really worth it unless you have plenty of cash in which case get a pro they are much better IMO and you have four internal hard drive bays, two external optical bays and you can choose your monitor!

cowasaki said:

NO NO NO get the smallest hard drive you can from Apple. Buy a larger hard drive on line with an external fire wire box. Stick the new hard drive into the imac and stick the original hard drive into the fire wire box. You will save a packet. Mac OS will happily just re-install on the new hard drive, you really don't need much Apple experience to do that. Apple charge a BIG premium for their hard drive upgrades.

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Not a good idea. I'm guessing you have no idea how to replace the HD in an iMac. I've taken apart my G5 iMac, and it was extremely difficult. I was planning on doing the same for the Alum iMac, but then I saw the Apple Tech manual for it. Let's just say you'd be an idiot to try to do it, you pretty much need a clean room to do it in. It's very difficult, and requires a few very special tools.

If you want to have a larger HD in your iMac, let Apple do it.

Stretch said:

Not a good idea. I'm guessing you have no idea how to replace the HD in an iMac. I've taken apart my G5 iMac, and it was extremely difficult. I was planning on doing the same for the Alum iMac, but then I saw the Apple Tech manual for it. Let's just say you'd be an idiot to try to do it, you pretty much need a clean room to do it in. It's very difficult, and requires a few very special tools.

If you want to have a larger HD in your iMac, let Apple do it.

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The imacs are a different beast to your G5 but its difficult to judge other people's level of competence with a screw driver! Being a component level service engineer (I will fix boards not just replace them) I doesn't faze me but fair enough other people could find it more difficult.

Just look at the price difference and make a judgment based on that. Some retailers will do the change too but if you can live with the difference in price do so and get Apple to supply it!

The Ram IS easy to change though so don't go buying Apple's!

cowasaki said:

NO NO NO get the smallest hard drive you can from Apple. Buy a larger hard drive on line with an external fire wire box. Stick the new hard drive into the imac and stick the original hard drive into the fire wire box. You will save a packet. Mac OS will happily just re-install on the new hard drive, you really don't need much Apple experience to do that. Apple charge a BIG premium for their hard drive upgrades.

Click to expand...

That sounds like it could take me a couple of hours.. and the upgrade from 320 to 500 GB is only 60 quid so frankly I'll let apple do it. But thanks for the tip!

cowasaki said:

4Gb is a decent sized amount of RAM on a modern machine either PC or MAC. Remember that we are dealing with much bigger amounts of data now over what we dealt with previously. One RAW picture from my camera is massive ie 10.1Mpixel with 16/32 bits PER pixel! Anything note used by the software will be used by the OS as a drive cache so speeding everything else up

Click to expand...

Possibly but I would still rate 2GB as a decent amount? Also.. upgrading to 2GB (from the 1 installed) cost 35 quid, upgrading to 4GB cost 150 quid. As with the processor, you think I'd see the difference compared to the price? Probably not. I have a DSLR but its 6MP although I always shoot in RAW. I would think 2GB should be enough to edit this?

cowasaki said:

I am glad Apple do not provide manuals. You can buy them seperately. If they did supply them then they would have to incorporate the price of doing so within the cost of the machine. Several of us run 2 or 3 machines. I have a mac pro and a laptop plus a mac mini as a server and attached to my TV. Plus my wife and kids all have a macbook! We do not need 7 manuals!!

Click to expand...

I hardly think a PDF on a CD would up the cost that much. If anything it would help people switch. Just because you have 45 apple computers it doesn't mean the rest of us know how they work.

cowasaki said:

Thats intels really good marketing for you! Also it is seriously confusing having several lines of processors at the same time! On a PC it is worth getting an extreme and maxing it out by overclocking it till it falls over then throttling it back till it is 100% stable. I got a massive boost on my PC from 2.66 to 3.6 doing just that but you can't overclock an Apple machine easily so I would say paying that premium to go from a 2.4 to 2.8 is not really worth it unless you have plenty of cash in which case get a pro they are much better IMO and you have four internal hard drive bays, two external optical bays and you can choose your monitor!

Click to expand...

Ok I've done some research. I *think* that the processors in iMacs are mobiles ones because intel doesn't make a 2.8GHz desktop extreme processor.
therefore using the standard mobile one vs the extreme mobiles one we have:

2.8GHz mobile
4MB L2 cache
800MHz FSB

2.4GHz mobile
2MB L2 cache
667MHz FSB

cowasaki said:

The Ram IS easy to change though so don't go buying Apple's!

Click to expand...

This for sure is my way forward. I still think the 4GB is a lot of £ but I think adding an extra GB to 2GB is super cheap and worth it totally.

However now given my CPU research im now unsuer again on where to go with the model in general

I'm waiting for the new OS and will probably go for the extreme package, then upgrade the RAM on my own. I will probably buy a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse since Apple doesn't offer a _real_ wireless keyboard (with a numeric pad). So I'll save a few bucks with the wired OEM components.

Anyway, in my case I'm buying the iMac to have the absolute (current) best and also for the long haul, and I don't want to look back in two or three years and wonder why I didn't get a little more umph! Unlike a PC, where I could simply buy a new CPU and install it in 15 minutes, buying a iMac is a bit more of a commitment with the knowledge that unless you're filthy rich, and can afford a new one every 3 years... you've got it for the long haul. Plus... if you _DO_ decide to upgrade down the road to a hypothetical iMac 28" 3.4 Super Quad Core and 10 Gigs of RAM in 2010... your extreme might have some additional market value.

It sounds like the only user-friendly mod is the RAM, but nobody has explained how many slots there are and what sticks can be installed to either replace, or supplement the OEM stuff. Can someone chime in?

And yeah... Steve Jobs pulled me aside at a local bar and told me he's working on the replacement for the extreme right now along with yet another OS ;D !