iMacs are not overpriced

This weekend I got into a heated argument over computers with my cousin during a family gathering so I felt it was necessary to blow off some steam. We were discussing computers, now my cousin isn't exactly the most computer saavy person out there so I got really offended by this conversation.

We argued about pricing of iMacs, and how they are so much money compared to a PC. I explained that you get everything you need for the one price and that's why it seems slightly more expensive.

He asked me how I came to this conclusion so I told him:

For $800 you would get a Tower, Keyboard and Mouse. Software: Vista, then He would need to purchase a decent monitor, which would run about $300 for a 19". Not to mention you would need a webcam which for a half-decent one would run about $60 The Computer would probably be pretty low-end too with only max 160 gb harddrive, 1 gb Ram (if lucky), and processor would be no faster than 2.0GHz anyway, and probably a low end integrated shared-memory graphics card. The Grand total would run close to $1200.00

I went on to explain the specs of the iMac. It took awhile but he started to look at things from a different prespective. So remember if you ever find yourself in a similar conversation look at it from one point of view, you're getting everything for one price, which is equivelant to (or better than) purchasing equivelant hardware with several different prices.

My wife realized as much yesterday at the Apple store. She really likes the Mac, and can see the value. Even at base, a 24" Imac is a great deal. A huge hard drive, fast processor, built in camera, and a large monitor. The monitor alone could cost you upwards of $700 if purchased separately. Knock the monitor off the price and you are still looking at a very fast desktop computer.

The only place I would improve is the video card.

bryans83 said:

This weekend I got into a heated argument over computers with my cousin during a family gathering so I felt it was necessary to blow off some steam. We were discussing computers, now my cousin isn't exactly the most computer saavy person out there so I got really offended by this conversation.

We argued about pricing of iMacs, and how they are so much money compared to a PC. I explained that you get everything you need for the one price and that's why it seems slightly more expensive.

He asked me how I came to this conclusion so I told him:

For $800 you would get a Tower, Keyboard and Mouse. Software: Vista, then He would need to purchase a decent monitor, which would run about $300 for a 19". Not to mention you would need a webcam which for a half-decent one would run about $60 The Computer would probably be pretty low-end too with only max 160 gb harddrive, 1 gb Ram (if lucky), and processor would be no faster than 2.0GHz anyway, and probably a low end integrated shared-memory graphics card. The Grand total would run close to $1200.00

I went on to explain the specs of the iMac. It took awhile but he started to look at things from a different prespective. So remember if you ever find yourself in a similar conversation look at it from one point of view, you're getting everything for one price, which is equivelant to (or better than) purchasing equivelant hardware with several different prices.

Click to expand...

Actually, from a company like Dell you can get a decently equipped computer with 19" lcd monitor for about $800.

Don't forget, just typing in Dell Coupons in google can save you $200 usually. They're running $350 off inspirons over $999 now.

Just priced this out now. This is a killer system and killer deal. Sure it's bigger than a 20" iMac, but I think it's worth it.

Dell Inspiron 530 Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6550 (4MB L2 Cache,2.33GHz,1333 FSB) SME655H [223-2222]
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium VHP3E [313-5582][420-5769][420-5924][420-6436][420-6540][420-6995][420-7244][463-2282]
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs 2GB62 [311-7239]
Keyboard and Mouse Bundles Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse EKOM [310-7966][310-8025]
Monitor 20 inch E207WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel E207WFP [320-5612]
Video Cards 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT-DDR3 NV8600 [320-5747]
Hard Drives 320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ 320S [341-4810]
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included NFD [341-5008]
Mouse Mouse included with Keyboard purchase N [310-1966]
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0412]
Modem & Wireless 56K PCI Data Fax Modem DFAX [313-4593]
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 8.1 AAREAD [420-7468]
Optical Drive 16X DVD+/-RW Drive 16DVDRW [313-5270][420-6464]
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio IS [313-2758]
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system) N [313-2198]
Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed) Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD DWRK [412-0912]
Security Software No Security Subscription (30-day trial) VNSNOR [412-0940]
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor, 24x7 Phone Support S111OS [950-3337][960-3249][982-4310][983-3680][987-3137][987-6238]
Internet Access Service 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0933][412-0934][412-0935]
Digital Media Editing Software Yahoo! Music Jukebox - Music Player SEP [412-0943]
Dell Digital Entertainment No Entertainment software pre-installed NODE [464-9572]
Labels Windows Vista™ Premium VPD [310-8626]
DataSafe Online Backup Free 3GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1 Year

$899

320 gb drive
2.33 C2D
2gb RAM
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT
20" monitor.

Now if you went and bought a computer from wal-mart or cicuit city with those specs, you'd be paying a ton, but it's all about going to the right place, right?

Wow...some one got their panties in a bunch because I posted that the OP's misconceptions were wrong...

Dell coupons are great. It is the only real problem I have with Apple. They never run any discounts or coupons that save real money. The system you spec'ed is about the equivalent to the 20" iMac at $1400. Add speakers and throw in a discount, and you get to the price level of the dell.

My iMac came in at £836 and has the following:

20” Monitor
C2D 2.4GHz Processor,
320GB HDD
Keyboard and Mouse
ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256MB GFX
8x double-layer SuperDrive
1GB RAM

My Last PC, bought November last year was £699 and cam with the following:

Pentium D 3.4GHz Processor,
150GB HDD
GeForce 7600GT 256MB GFX
DVD Drive
1GB RAM

So I would say the iMac is defiantly good value for money

But then again, we don't buy Macs because of the price, we buy them because of things like OS X or the form factor.

I guess some people on this board just don't realize that even though it is true that Apple computers cost more than some similarly equipped machines at some points in time, that people that use them will still continue to use them.

I guess they just get angry when some of their ammo gets taken away in a Mac vs. PC argue fest and have problems coping with that.

Then again, it's usually the fan boys that start problems. At least most of the members on this site are level headed and use/have used both platforms and understand why one user would choose one over the other without having to bad mouth either of the two systems.

Stetwin said:

My iMac came in at £836 and has the following:

20” Monitor
C2D 2.4GHz Processor,
320GB HDD
Keyboard and Mouse
ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256MB GFX
8x double-layer SuperDrive
1GB RAM

My Last PC, bought November last year was £699 and cam with the following:

Pentium D 3.4GHz Processor,
150GB HDD
GeForce 7600GT 256MB GFX
DVD Drive
1GB RAM

So I would say the iMac is defiantly good value for money

Click to expand...

See...different points and time and no telling where they came from. when the MBP's upgraded the Dell notebooks weren't really that much cheaper at the time for the 15" and under vs the refurbed MBP 15". The Apple build quality is better to boot. Dell pretty much just upgraded their lines, so their notebooks will probably be a bit cheaper...still made out of plastic though.

And you can also look at the Sony all in ones which start at $1799

I definitely think the argument can be made they are overpriced, btu they also run beter and faster. So maybe for teh physical specs and components, it might be overpriced compared to dell, but you are also getting a compter that runs OS X.

The form factor has to be taken into account. After leaving the Apple store yesterday, we passed a Dell stand in the mall. The Dell's looked antiquated. Even with the Dell you are going to pay more to get Vista Ultimate. At least OSX is the full OS.

People still pay more for iPods than other mp3 players. There's a reason for that.

One thing that everyone is forgetting is firstly the life span and secondly the resale value mac.

Apple macs are known to last a **** lot longer than PC's, this is because of a number of factors. You can potentially keep your mac for up to 7 years and you ain't going to see much of a decrease in performance. For example look at Mac OS X 10.5 which is coming out soon, it can work on G3 up, which is about 6-7 years old I think. Whereas vista needs a PC made in the last year or 2.

Secondly because of the long life span the resale value of an Apple mac is much higher.

Oh and one last thing - one good reason why macs may cost more is because your getting Mac OS X, you ain't getting no crappy windows xp/vista OS

Spankey said:

People still pay more for iPods than other mp3 players. There's a reason for that.

Click to expand...

Yes there is....

It's called Apple's marketing department.

Does that $899 dell have Firewire 800? Does it have video chat capabilities? Does it have Gigabit ethernet? How about 802.11n wireless?

Doesn't look like it to me. Granted, the average user may not use that stuff, but some folks might. I'm just not sure that it is an accurate feature-for-feature comparison.

OK, I just answered my question. That system listed above does not include the following:

1) Wireless anything.
No 802.11g (or n) Add the g card for $30, no n option listed.
No Bluetooth, add that for $40
2) Firewire
No, add FW 400 for $30 (no option for FW 800)
3) Speakers
Nope, add those for $20
4) Webcam (probably inferior to iSight) added for $79
5) De-select default AOL membership - priceless.

List price when you make it an equivalent system is $1219. Dell is offering $150 off without asking, so that takes it to $1148. Probably can get closer to $1000 even with the right coupons.

But wait... The included Dell monitor is rated at only 1440x900 resolution, the Mac is 1680x1050, so let's make that equal.

Now we are back to $1198 out the door.

A slightly faster (2.4GHz) iMac is $1425 after a $75 rebate from Amazon. A slightly slower one (2.0GHz) with smaller hard drive (250 GB) is $1150.

IMHO, this is about a draw price-wise when all the features are included. If you don't need the features, then the Dell can be configured for less. However when comparing Apples and Apples (ha, a pun), then it's pretty close, and we've yet to consider the styling of the Apple.

The Apple also comes with a remote control, and the Dell doesn't.
Scott

celica73 said:

Does that $899 dell have Firewire 800? Does it have video chat capabilities? Does it have Gigabit ethernet? How about 802.11n wireless?

Doesn't look like it to me. Granted, the average user may not use that stuff, but some folks might. I'm just not sure that it is an accurate feature-for-feature comparison.

OK, I just answered my question. That system listed above does not include the following:

1) Wireless anything.
No 802.11g (or n) Add the g card for $30, no n option listed.
No Bluetooth, add that for $40
2) Firewire
No, add FW 400 for $30 (no option for FW 800)
3) Speakers
Nope, add those for $20
4) Webcam (probably inferior to iSight) added for $79
5) De-select default AOL membership - priceless.

List price when you make it an equivalent system is $1219. Dell is offering $150 off without asking, so that takes it to $1148. Probably can get closer to $1000 even with the right coupons.

But wait... The included Dell monitor is rated at only 1440x900 resolution, the Mac is 1680x1050, so let's make that equal.

Now we are back to $1198 out the door.

A slightly faster (2.4GHz) iMac is $1425 after a $75 rebate from Amazon. A slightly slower one (2.0GHz) with smaller hard drive (250 GB) is $1150.

IMHO, this is about a draw price-wise when all the features are included. If you don't need the features, then the Dell can be configured for less. However when comparing Apples and Apples (ha, a pun), then it's pretty close, and we've yet to consider the styling of the Apple.

The Apple also comes with a remote control, and the Dell doesn't.
Scott

Click to expand...

Dell is also offering a $350 off coupon. Adding that in is another $200 off of whatever price you have configured. Dell ALWAYS has coupons. Search dell coupon on any search engine and the first couple pages will have them listed.

And if you want to make the comparison some what equal, you have to go with the 2.4 imac.

A 2.0 Dell is $100 less.

They also come with 2gb of memory. A base model 2.4 is $1649 from Apple. If you configure the Dell to compare with a 2.0, it's still going to be cheaper since the dell comes with 2gb of memory and would still be about $799-899 when the 2.0 imac would be $1398.

Dell moves a lot of hardware. It's a fact that the more you sell, the cheaper you can price your product for and still make a profit.

I have no question what so ever that Apple could off a 20" iMac for $899 with comparable specs to a Dell if they sold as many computers. I mean, $150 for 1 1gb stick of RAM is rediculous when you can buy it for $40.

Aluminum = more $$$ than plastic
Exclusivity = more $$$ than "public"

If buying a Dell did cost as much as buying an Apple. If all things were truly 100% equal. Who would buy the Dell over the Apple? No one from here. A lot of people that would only buy a cheap Dell would probably switch at the prospect of having to pay no more for an Apple computer that can run OS X.

Face it. Cheaper parts + more product moved + cheaper build quality = lower price. That and the fact that only computers that can legally run OS X can only be bought from Apple lets them set the prices at what they want and not what we want.

Look at John Deer vs. Sears branded tractors. It's almost the same arguement. Mercedes Benz vs. Volkswagen.

See so many great points comparing PCs and Macs, I wish i mentioned some of these great points too. Apple might seem more expensive by around $100 when using comparible equipment, but
A) its a more stable system
B) it looks a lot nicer, can be placed almost everwhere and look like it belongs
C) Full OS, not segmented to make you upgrade

Im not saying PCs are bad, but I prefer the iMacs for what I use it for, And every cent I spent can be justified.

Vista Ultimate isn't really even justifiable to the average user in my opinion. The only feature it has over business is the Bit locker drive encryption. I would reccomend that any user go with at least a home premium.

I was trying to fix a person's computer with home basic and it didn't even have all the MMC options like a typical XP Pro install or like my copy of Ultimate has. It can be frustrating trying to fix a computer that doesn't have all the administrative tools in the OS where they should be.

Village Idiot said:

They also come with 2gb of memory.

Click to expand...

I guess you need to check out the Dell configuration page again. When I do it 1GB is thes tandard. Dell wants $100 to upgrade to 2GB (a deal compared to Apple, but still 100% markup over the aftermarket stuff).

As for the coupons, I don't dispute those. I also have no clue how "additive" they are, but I know that if I go to the Dell site today, they only offer $150 off without extra digging.

We still haven't configured a Dell machine comparable to the iMac (FW 800).

On edit...

In the quest to be fair, as "Village Idiot" wants us to use the 2.4GHz Apple. Fine. Let's also use a 2.4GHz Dell. That puts us into the XPS line. A comparable XPS 210 costs $1747. That does come with 2GB of RAM, so add $150 to the 2.4GHz Apple 20" iMac price.

The XPS is likely the better comparison anyhow.

Scott

celica73 said:

I guess you need to check out the Dell configuration page again. When I do it 1GB is thes tandard. Dell wants $100 to upgrade to 2GB (a deal compared to Apple, but still 100% markup over the aftermarket stuff).

As for the coupons, I don't dispute those. I also have no clue how "additive" they are, but I know that if I go to the Dell site today, they only offer $150 off without extra digging.

We still haven't configured a Dell machine comparable to the iMac (FW 800).

Click to expand...

If you're going to point out something that small, you could say that there's no Mac that's comparable to a dell as they offer video cards options in most of their machines that trump pretty much anything Apple offers right now and will probably continue to do so.

Plus for a few bucks extra, you can get dual DVD burners and hard drives in a computer that cost a lot less than a Mac Pro and iMacs can't accomodate those options.

The thing is, there will never be a perfect comparison. The Dell I configured and priced came with 2gb of RAM a video card that trumps anything Apple offers, a 2.3 processor, and a 320gb hard drive. To get a 2.4 chip, alone, it's nearly an extra $400 more than the 2.0 that Apple offers. You can't touch a 2.4ghz computer from Apple for $899. That's where the value comes in. The base iMac also has something like a 160gb drive and only a 126mb GPU and 1GB RAM. Compare that to the same computer with only a 2.0 chip and the Dell has better base hardware specs, minus the monitor resolution, speakers, firewire card, and web came. Most are peripherals that never get used.

Even if you took those two computers and added all that stuff, you could still get the dell for under $1000 and the 2.0 iMac would be something like $1400.

Like I said before. If both systems had the exact same specs and price, then it would be practically no competition, but you can purchase mass produced Dell machines with better core components for less than something with similar specs made by Apple. That's why Dell sells so many computers. They're cheap. If I can spend $900 on a computer that can play pretty much any computer game out there with high graphics options and run DX10 games, then I'm going to purchase it instead of a $1500, or even a $1100 iMac that won't natively run games without a purchased and installed copy of Windows on top of it.

People see specs and price and shop. They usually don't see OS X vs Windows and optimization vs. price and form factor vs price

If they did, then again, there would be a lot more Apple computers in people's homes.

And just because you don't want to find a coupon by typing in dell coupons in a search engine because it will hurt your arguement of price, doesn't mean that every single person that I know that have bought a Dell haven't done it to save an extra couple hundred. This includes personal aquaintances and people that frequent forums asking about configuring cheap pc's.

I would pay £799 for a iMac any day.

I would rather pass a kidney stone than have another Dell again. AWFUL.

Cheap, plus a decent PC. Not a Dell, e.g HP will cost loads.

Nick.