Well, it finally happened . . .

1. Gas got down to $2.50
2. people are actually happy about it!

I guess you can be happy it's no longer at $3+, but long ago I said that the prices will be run up and down so much it will distort people's minds to the point where it will still be expensive, but people think it's actually cheap.

That happened today when I was at the pump and a guy willing up his F350 next to me said he's glad gas is "cheap" again so he can drive his truck around. I was speechless.

Did you remind him about the price of a gallon about four to five years ago?

We have very short memories.

You punch a guy in the face 3 times a day for a month, then start punching him in the face "just" once a day, and he'll smile all day long.

It's 95p a Liter here (minimum; it can go up to £1 or more). For the mathematically impaired, that's $7 a gallon.

Still, it's 70p for half a liter of bottled water.... It's a sad state of affairs when water is more expensive than processed oil... and it ain't like we don't get enough rain over here!

Levi said:

It's 95p a Liter here (minimum; it can go up to £1 or more). For the mathematically impaired, that's $7 a gallon.

Still, it's 70p for half a liter of bottled water.... It's a sad state of affairs when water is more expensive than processed oil... and it ain't like we don't get enough rain over here!

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The difference is you have a choice when it comes to water. If you are thirsty, you can drink Tap-Water, may not taste as well, but it will do the same thing in quenching your thirst.

Gasoline is a different story... my car will not run on anything other than Gasoline, I am a hostage.

Some may say "well you could walk"... but it's not realistic. Our society has become very spread out with modern travel, making most commutes to work much too far to simply walk.

I'm driving a 14 mile a gallon SUV. Most I've ever payed at one time to fill my tank: $72.

To me 2.5 a gallon is cheap, since I could not drive at a time when it was less.

lol yesterday gas here was 2.57 today it went up all the way to 2.75.
This is just a game for the oil companies.

RIDE said:

The difference is you have a choice when it comes to water. If you are thirsty, you can drink Tap-Water, may not taste as well, but it will do the same thing in quenching your thirst.

Gasoline is a different story... my car will not run on anything other than Gasoline, I am a hostage.

Some may say "well you could walk"... but it's not realistic. Our society has become very spread out with modern travel, making most commutes to work much too far to simply walk.

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Still, it put's the price of "gas" into perspective.

The cheapest price for gas here is $3.05 at Exxon. There's this cheap no name gas at these little marts that sell gas at $2.97.

I just stick to the ExxonMobil.

But we still need to keep some historical perspective. I recall paying $1.34/gallon for regular gas in 1982 when I was a poor college student. Feel free to list some things that have NOT more than doubled in price in the past 25 years.

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True Papercut, but wasn't that around the time when our economy was in a crazy death-spiral and a lot of prices were out of wack?

walmartconnect said:

Did you remind him about the price of a gallon about four to five years ago?

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I come from a red state and a rural community. I can't help but notice that many people around me and that I've known tend to be a little racially-biased against people of the middle east. I've also noticed that these same people drive the biggest gas hogs ever made. Sometimes I like to remind them that every time they hit the pump they're putting more money in the pockets of these people they don't seem to like.

I like seeing the little lightbulb go off the their heads when I mention that. I figure if they're going to harbor ignorant racial views, might as well get something positive out of it by getting them to drive those gas hogs a little less.

A little tidbit I like to mention is something I saw on TV where an oil-based multi-billionaire from somewhere in the middle east gave his daughter the most expensive wedding in history at a cost of $60 million!! Many people would kill for $1 million and this guy spent $60 million in a week like it was no big deal.

I was doing research for a college paper today (about supply and demand) and it quoted gas as being $1.27 in 1997. Quite coincidental that I can buy gas here at work -- less state sales tax -- for $2.54 today (exactly double). I do think oil companies are gouging us and making extremely high profits. What do you expect from a capitalistic, free society??

So, since this is America and they can sell their product for whatever they want, I try not to get upset. I know we in America have some of the lowest oil prices in the world. If people don't like it, they shouldn't buy it.

I just do what I can to limit what I use.

ArmyChief,

Here's something to consider as well. The Dow Jones industrials have averaged a 6.94% return in the past 10 years. http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/index.cfm?event=showAvgStats

For a financial investment to double in 10 years, by using the "rule of 72", you'd need about a 7.2% return. So, given the market's return, I'm not surprised that investments and prices are still somewhat in line with the 1997 levels. I don't quite see the gouging effect that everyone is talking about.

If you really want to see capitalism and free market forces work to bring prices down, the supply needs to be increased. The problem with the supply of gasoline is that no new refineries have been built in 30 years due to restrictive environmental laws. Yes, I want the earth to be clean but I'd think that new refineries could be built in ways that minimize pollutants.

Come to think of it, it seems that the market is working nicely even though the regulations make things more expensive for the consumer.

BTW, taxing the oil companies more isn't the solution. Corporations don't really pay taxes. They just pass them through to the consumers who buy their products. Taxing a corporation is just a hidden way of making the citizens pay higher taxes.
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Gas reached $0.75/Gal during the gas crisis of '73 or '74 (forget which year now). Twenty-three years later it still hadn't doubled, but has risen by a varying amount of between 100-133%. Have to believe we're being gouged. If not by the major oil companies here, for sure by the countries that are pumping it out of the ground.

However, on the good side, at least our cars don't run on ink.
Using Amazon's price for an HP cartridge - $19.99 for 19ml. We'll just round that down to $1 per ml.
That makes ink as sold in our typical printer cartridges $3,785.14 per Gal.

This ink can be purchased in bulk at $40 per quart or less. Now, this is gouging the public.

ArmyChief said:

I do think oil companies are gouging us and making extremely high profits. What do you expect from a capitalistic, free society??

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I, too, did a college paper on the subject and I couldn't find any objective source that confirms that. Data that are found objectively seem to point to the opposite, that it is a natural phenomenon. The FTC performed numerous investigations and found nothing. I wanted to find something to nail them, but I couldn't. The data just do not point to it. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just want to know the evidence and/or justification you have for that belief.

ArmyChief is on to something with his supply/demand comment. With virtually any product in the market, there's a supplementary product. Products in the market have a certain price elasticity based on a number of factors including product need and supplementary products, which keep keep prices in check and make the free market function. If price does too high, people can either buy something similar or do without.

Gas is one of those few products where there is no real readily-availible supplementary product for the masses. Also, most people simply cannot do without it. So what you end of getting is an industry who can basically charge whatever they want and get almost away with it. If gas went up to $10 tomorrow, those who could afford it would probably throw a fit, but eventually they would have to buy it. Of course such gouging would never be allowed, so the oil companies have to subtle and tricky, like what I originally posted in this thread as well as subtle and careful price and supply controlling.

Some may think this isn't true and the free market is working fine when it comes to oil, but how else do you get the highest concentration of the richest people in the world all selling the exact same product?

I am still paying $3.38

fleurya said:

ArmyChief is on to something with his supply/demand comment. With virtually any product in the market, there's a supplementary product. Products in the market have a certain price elasticity based on a number of factors including product need and supplementary products, which keep keep prices in check and make the free market function. If price does too high, people can either buy something similar or do without.

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Gas is inelastic. Both the supply and demand curve are. We're repeatedly warned about peak oil, and people really have no alternative that doesn't require some sort of really strong effort on their part. So both sides are pretty constrained. That's why small changes in the market result in huge price jumps.

So what you end of getting is an industry who can basically charge whatever they want and get almost away with it. If gas went up to $10 tomorrow, those who could afford it would probably throw a fit, but eventually they would have to buy it. Of course such gouging would never be allowed, so the oil companies have to subtle and tricky, like what I originally posted in this thread as well as subtle and careful price and supply controlling.

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That sounds like a conspiracy theory. As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Some may think this isn't true and the free market is working fine when it comes to oil, but how else do you get the highest concentration of the richest people in the world all selling the exact same product?

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How is that proof?

Again, I'm not saying there is no gouging going on, but there's no proof to show that there is. If there was, most economists, business experts, and especially lawyers would be jumping all over them. But they aren't, so why is the lack of evidence for price gouging evidence for price gouging?

I'm going to remain skeptical of the claim that there is a mass market manipulation conspiracy taking place on a global scale until enough evidence emerges to prove it.

I agree with TC99 (mostly). Other than the government interfering with the free market, the oil business is a competitive business. If there were only one oil refining company, then they could gouge with their monopoly position. If there are multiple companies they may be price-fixing (highly illegal) but making a profit is hardly gouging.

Here's a thought... If you think oil companies are making unfair profits, then I'd suggest buying some stock in these publicly traded companies. That way you'd be an owner and would be the gougER rather than the gougEE.

It's all a matter of perspective. When I was a kid I would have laughed at anyone who thought I'd pay a buck for a bottle of water. As I sit here with my Desani water by my side, it occurs to me that my water is probably just as expensive as my gasoline.
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