What would it take for the Masses to switch?

I think that price is the major barrier for people to switch to Macs. The Mini is the cheapest new Mac on the market right now and it starts at $600, while $299 at Dell gets you a fast PC complete with keyboard, mouse, and 17" CRT monitor. It's hard to beat that deal when you're on a budget, which 99% of consumers are. I think that Apple could have a real winner on their hands if they dropped the price of the Mini and made a relatively inexpensive iPhone Nano. For example:

$399 - Mac Mini with 120gb hard drive, 1gb ram, and wired keyboard and mouse
$149 - 2gb iPhone Nano

Selling an inexpensive LCD monitor would sweeten the deal even more, such as a $199 17" widescreen. Then you could be in and out of the store with a new Mac setup for under a grand. Some other ideas to get consumers to switch:

-offer Parallels preloaded with XP or Vista on Mac computers
-team up with Best Buy to sell gift cards for car stereo installations with front inputs or iPod link cables to use your iPhone Nano in your car
-offer free switching workshops (a number of others are already offered)

Apple seems really keen on getting people to switch, but they're not pricing their equipment competitively enough imo. I'm not saying they have to be bottom of the barrel $200 or $300 systems, but something in the middle like $350 or $400 would be great because that is something most people would consider for a computer. Plus a cheaper iPhone would really help the cause - all the devices you need, right in your pocket.

What do YOU think?

I'm half with you there - lowering prices like that to the price of a cheap dell would drive up apple sales even more to make more money. However, I think that apple is growing steadily now with the prices that are current.

I don't think that 'the masses' should switch to any platform. It comes down to using the computer that best suits a person's needs. Sometimes that is a Mac, sometimes its a Linux box, and sometimes that is a Windows machine.
It is about choice and using the best computer for your needs.

offer Parallels preloaded with XP or Vista on Mac computers

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Parallels or Boot Camp should not be used as a tactic to get people to "switch". It isn't switching if you buy a Mac to just use Windows. In that instance, Parallels and Boot Camp are nothing but crutches for people who were comfortable with their current systems and had no valid reason to "switch". If you are going to "switch" to Mac, then do so full on... leave the old way behind and learn the new.

but they're not pricing their equipment competitively enough

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Quite the contrary. As it has been shown countless times on these very forums, the hardware pricing is the same as any other machine that meets those specifications.
Simply lowering the price on the existing hardware a Mac has is not a solution.
A better way to state this would be to allow customers to have a greater configuration possibility with a new Mac. Allow a customer to build a Mac to the same hardware specs as those $400 "wonders" that Dell, HP, Gateway, etc offer. That way, the price is lowered because the hardware used in it is lowered to match the quality of the competitors.

Plus a cheaper iPhone would really help the cause

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I fail to see the relevance in this. We were talking about Macs, not peripherals or other devices. Apple TV, iPhones, and iPods (while having good integration with) are not Macs and hold no major significance in this matter. Just because Apple makes something does not equate it or hold any relevance to their Macintosh line of computers.
Sure, one could say the, "if someone likes the iPhone/iPod/Apple TV and likes it then they are more likely to buy a Mac" line, but that is a weak statement. This is truly comparing Apples to Oranges... two completely different arenas that have no bearing on one another.


Overall, yes Apple is a business. It is their duty to sell their products. Yet, no person should ever be "convinced" or duped into changing their computer system for the simple reason that one group of people feel that it is superior. No OS is better than the other. "Better" is a relative term that can only be determined by ONE PERSON... yourself.
What might be right for you, will not be right for the next person.

i dont want the masses to switch, i like being different. Not to mention it is nice knowing that you are having a superior computing experience than most of your friends, almost like you know something they dont.

D3v1L80Y said:

I don't think that 'the masses' should switch to any platform. It comes down to using the computer that best suits a person's needs. Sometimes that is a Mac, sometimes its a Linux box, and sometimes that is a Windows machine.
It is about choice and using the best computer for your needs.

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I definitely agree with you there!

Parallels or Boot Camp should not be used as a tactic to get people to "switch". It isn't switching if you buy a Mac to just use Windows. In that instance, Parallels and Boot Camp are nothing but crutches for people who were comfortable with their current systems and had no valid reason to "switch". If you are going to "switch" to Mac, then do so full on... leave the old way behind and learn the new.

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I don't necessarily think it's a crutch to keep Windows around. I have several thousands of dollars invested in Windows software that I'm not just going to ditch because I switched to Mac. I'm sure a lot of consumers are in the same situation - they'd love a Mac and the ease and stability associated with it, but maybe they have Print Master or something else they've spent $100 on and invested multiple hours learning that they don't want to give up or have to buy again for the Mac platform.

Quite the contrary. As it has been shown countless times on these very forums, the hardware pricing is the same as any other machine that meets those specifications.
Simply lowering the price on the existing hardware a Mac has is not a solution.
A better way to state this would be to allow customers to have a greater configuration possibility with a new Mac. Allow a customer to build a Mac to the same hardware specs as those $400 "wonders" that Dell, HP, Gateway, etc offer. That way, the price is lowered because the hardware used in it is lowered to match the quality of the competitors.

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I'm not talking about dollar comparison, I'm talking about overall market competition. Hardware-wise, Macs are more than competitive with similar PC-based products from Dell, Alienware, and any other top manufacturer. But Dell has a $299 computer while Mac's lowest-priced offering is $599. I work in the IT field and have discovered that price is pretty much the #1 reason people won't switch to Macs.

I fail to see the relevance in this. We were talking about Macs, not peripherals or other devices. Apple TV, iPhones, and iPods (while having good integration with) are not Macs and hold no major significance in this matter. Just because Apple makes something does not equate it or hold any relevance to their Macintosh line of computers.
Sure, one could say the, "if someone likes the iPhone/iPod/Apple TV and likes it then they are more likely to buy a Mac" line, but that is a weak statement. This is truly comparing Apples to Oranges... two completely different arenas that have no bearing on one another.

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Apple is no longer just a computer company - instead of "Apple Computers, Inc." they are now just "Apple, Inc.". As such I am not talking about simply switch computers since Apple has other offerings now (not that I'm saying that everyone needs an iPod, AppleTV, etc.). Also, in terms of switching, I like the idea of both a Mac computer and an iPhone. The iPhone is really nice because it's easy to use and it syncs with your computer. Most people I know would kill for something that easy to use.

kaidomac said:

I'm not talking about dollar comparison, I'm talking about overall market competition. Hardware-wise, Macs are more than competitive with similar PC-based products from Dell, Alienware, and any other top manufacturer. But Dell has a $299 computer while Mac's lowest-priced offering is $599. I work in the IT field and have discovered that price is pretty much the #1 reason people won't switch to Macs.

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You get what you pay for. There is always going to be the "cheaper is better" crowd, but in the end they buy 2 or even 3 computers over the life-span of a single Mac, all the while complaining that their PC sucks and won't do this, that or the other thing. Usually they blame MS. People want something for nothing but that doesn't exist. If Apple cut prices they would have to cut something else too. Be it quality or profits neither is a good thing for the customer or the shareholder.

Yes, Dell makes $200 computers, but they are a POS. We all know it, even the people who buy them know it, although it's usually AFTER they spent the money. Then they wonder why they threw away $200. Then they blame MS.

The only are where this is really an issue is if you build your own. You can use quality parts and build a decent PC for much less than a Mac.

One should also consider that in this period of market slump in the PC world, Apple is the one still doing quite well. Maybe there is a reason for that.

I don't necessarily think it's a crutch to keep Windows around. I have several thousands of dollars invested in Windows software that I'm not just going to ditch because I switched to Mac. I'm sure a lot of consumers are in the same situation

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And in that case, the best machine for the situation is the one that has the greatest personal investment in it... the Windows Platform Machine.

Apple is no longer just a computer company - instead of "Apple Computers, Inc." they are now just "Apple, Inc.". As such I am not talking about simply switch computers since Apple has other offerings now (not that I'm saying that everyone needs an iPod, AppleTV, etc.)

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But that isn't what your original post implied.

I think that price is the major barrier for people to switch to Macs.... something most people would consider for a computer

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Your post clearly states "Mac", not "Apple devices".
There are several companies that offer multiple and varied products: Yamaha offers audio/visual equipment, motorcycles and scooters, musical instruments... Mitsubishi makes TV's, Automobiles, and HVAC systems... Sony makes computers, stereos, TV's, cellphones...etc. Just because a company has a wide spectrum of product doesn't mean that a person should buy only one company's offerings. That has no bearing or relevance to a situation. You buy what works for you and what is best for your needs. One shouldn't buy something just because Brand XYZ makes it.

Also, in terms of switching, I like the idea of both a Mac computer and an iPhone.

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Again, that is where personal preference comes into play. YOU like it and that is great. Not everyone (read: "the masses") is going to agree with that opinion.

baggss said:

The only area where this is really an issue is if you build your own. You can use quality parts and build a decent PC for much less than a Mac.

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Yep, if I could go buy the parts I wanted, I'd have myself a new OS X rig sittin on my desk now.

I don't want the masses to switch either. I like things the way they are , prices and all.

Netty4mac said:

I don't want the masses to switch either. I like things the way they are , prices and all.

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I'm with you Netty. Call me a snob but once things go mainstream or to the masses it's dumbed down and made middle of the road. You find the lowest common denominator and target your product to that market. Hence beige box PC's and Windows.

D3v1L80Y said:

And in that case, the best machine for the situation is the one that has the greatest personal investment in it... the Windows Platform Machine.

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You know, as a Mac fanboy you're worse than the Windows fanboys in trying to get people to switch

The title of my post is, "What would it take for the Masses to switch?" The iPhone was thrown in as part of the switching process. Macs are still Apple's main product, but I think an inexpensive iPhone would help draw people over (they just need to make a flip phone so Americans will accept it, lol). Most people I know have a cell phone and a computer, so it would make sense to kind of sell them together or at least sell toned-down versions at more reasonable prices. Nearly all cell phone users I know have complained about how difficult it is to sync their phones with their computers to get music, contacts, and other files and data to transfer over. Just last week a friend of mine got a new AT&T phone and it took him a week to figure out how to get a little song clip transferred to his phone to use an ringtone (ignore the fact that you can't use custom ringtones on an iPhone right now, lol). Now point out the fact that hey, you can get an cell phone and a computer from Apple for under a grand together and it will solve your usability problems!

My point with the financial issue being that Mac isn't competitive in the lower-end market. Say you want to jump into Mac in a big way - you spend $600 on a Mini and $600 on an iPhone. You still need a keyboard, mouse, and monitor, as well as some kind of protection for the iPhone (hopefully), but you're already at $1,200 and your Mini only comes with half a gig of ram (Parallels would run like crap on that) and doesn't even have a DVD burner. Hardware-wise, dollar-per-dollar, the Mini stacks up against competitors, but Apple is missing a huge chunk of the low-end market. Normally this wouldn't bother me, but they're really pushing the "switching" campaign and it just doesn't make sense to me that they wouldn't offer something more reasonably priced to lure customers away from Microsoft. It's like offering the homeless a soup kitchen but then charging ten bucks a plate!

Going off on a tangent, my personal dream is to have a world of technology where everything just works together. The iPhone & Mac platform come pretty close to that. Now we just need situational computing (smart house, smart car, smart boat, smart plane). There are several aftermarket companies, such as Indigo, who are going after those markets, but none are as elegant as Apple would be. Gimme my iHome, dangit!

cjay said:

I'm with you Netty. Call me a snob but once things go mainstream or to the masses it's dumbed down and made middle of the road. You find the lowest common denominator and target your product to that market. Hence beige box PC's and Windows.

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As long as Steve Jobs is around, Johnathan Ive will always have a job and we'll never have crappy-looking computers I would love for OS X to get more popular - I started switching my family over to Macs last year and my tech support calls have drastically diminished. Yes, I want them to switch for selfish reasons. So what?? ;D

bobtomay said:

Yep, if I could go buy the parts I wanted, I'd have myself a new OS X rig sittin on my desk now.

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That goes back to my financial point again. Why don't you have an OS X desktop rig? Because they're expensive, especially as a second computer.

kaidomac said:

You know, as a Mac fanboy you're worse than the Windows fanboys in trying to get people to switch

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I am the furthest thing from a being 'fanboy' of anything.
I cannot stand fanboys of any kind.
I despise Apple fanboys and Microsoft fanboys equally.

D3v1L80Y said:

I am the furthest thing from a being 'fanboy' of anything.
I cannot stand fanboys of any kind.
I despise Apple fanboys and Microsoft fanboys equally.

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So you're saying you're a fanboy of hating fanboys?

I know this is a bit OT, but business success in terms of market share is a dangerous concept. Nobody argues that Apple is a successful company and you have to consider that maybe they don't want "the masses" to switch, maybe they are happy being a niche product in terms of computers. Just like cheaper iPods, they could offer cheaper computers if they wanted to, but they don't. Market share is easy to get, just make something cheap and sell it for less than you put into it. You'll get market share, but go out of business doing it.

I like the feeling that the Apple brand gives, but not because few others have it. That's snob-ish and exactly the feeling Windows users have about Mac users. I like it because it promotes a higher standard of quality and workmanship. That reputation would be quickly lost in the pursuit of the budget market. Like BMW. People like BMW's because they stand for something of higher quality. What would happen if BMW made a $15,000 Corolla-like car? Their rep would go down the tubes and their current customer base would lose interest. They'd probably sell more cars, but that's not the business goal.

If Apple started making budget PC's their whole image and core strategy would be thrown right out the window. For instance, Dell broke into the consumer PC market with a reputation of quality. Then they got heavy into budget sales. They still make high-end PC's, but what do you think of when you think of Dell these days? Do you want Apple to be the next Dell?

fleurya said:

I know this is a bit OT, but business success in terms of market share is a dangerous concept. Nobody argues that Apple is a successful company and you have to consider that maybe they don't want "the masses" to switch, maybe they are happy being a niche product in terms of computers. Just like cheaper iPods, they could offer cheaper computers if they wanted to, but they don't. Market share is easy to get, just make something cheap and sell it for less than you put into it. You'll get market share, but go out of business doing it.

I like the feeling that the Apple brand gives, but not because few others have it. That's snob-ish and exactly the feeling Windows users have about Mac users. I like it because it promotes a higher standard of quality and workmanship. That reputation would be quickly lost in the pursuit of the budget market. Like BMW. People like BMW's because they stand for something of higher quality. What would happen if BMW made a $15,000 Corolla-like car? Their rep would go down the tubes and their current customer base would lose interest. They'd probably sell more cars, but that's not the business goal.

If Apple started making budget PC's their whole image and core strategy would be thrown right out the window. For instance, Dell broke into the consumer PC market with a reputation of quality. Then they got heavy into budget sales. They still make high-end PC's, but what do you think of when you think of Dell these days? Do you want Apple to be the next Dell?

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I can see the danger there, but I don't necessarily think that Apple needs to sell crap to grab more marketshare. Just make something more affordable to people. The major barrier I've run into with my own family and trying to get them to switch is the financial issue - "you want me to spend $600 on this tiny little box plus another hundred on ram when I got this Dell I have here for $300 with a monitor?" Share the love, Apple! Again none of this would matter if Apple weren't pushing their switching commercials so much. But they've made it a point to tell people that they want them to switch, but they kind of hold the carrot just out of reach of the price tolerance of most non-technical consumers.

Also as far as iPods go, I didn't really get interested in iPods until they made the 2nd-gen Shuffle. Under $100 and has a clip, what a concept! It's my new workout buddy

Well, I can't think of many computers priced less than a mini that I would label as a quality product.

fleurya said:

Well, I can't think of many computers priced less than a mini that I would label as a quality product.

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WOW! I agree with everything you've said in this thread fleurya!

"you want me to spend $600 on this tiny little box plus another hundred on ram when I got this Dell I have here for $300 with a monitor?"

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And it is rationalization like that which show how little most people understand. They have no concept of what they are getting for the price.
Is the cheapo Dell system more complete? Yes, it is. But that completeness comes at a loss in quality of components, hardware, and longevity of the computer. Yeah, one saves money, but there is more to value than monetary worth. Is that cheapo Dell going to be able to handle software and operating systems 5 years from now? Is it even going to last 5 years? No... chances are it won't.

People who use that comparison rationale are only looking at the base level. They only see two computers... one costs more, one costs less. They have no idea about hardware quality, life span, or additional features.
Using that kind of decisive process, one could look at a hamster and a Great Dane and call them the exact same, for the simple notion that they are both pets. Nevermind the fact that one is a very large dog and the other a small rodent. They are both pets and therefore equal in all aspects. Even if they were both dogs, they would look at a champion purebred dog and a kennel mutt and call them equal because they are both dogs. Why pay more for the AKC purebred champ when you can get a mongrel for hundreds less?


Basically, the only people who think Apple computers are overpriced and cost too much are the people that have no clear concept of an item's worth. They put no importance on details of an item and care only about a dollar figure.
They are overly frugal and will always choose the least expensive of two choices, even if the less expensive item it a hunk of junk.