Recording Systems

Hey everyone!

As some of you may know, im going to university soon to study audio and music technology. A fair portion of the course is dedicated to recording. On top of this, I would also like to do lots of home recording, typically band stuff (guitars drums bass vocals etc)

Now I am willing to invest in some decent software/hardware that will help me acheive the best possible sound.

I currently have a macbook 2.0ghz with 2Gb ram and 80+250gb HDD which i have been assured should be fine for fairly complex recordings.

I am thinking of purchasing Apple's Logic Pro 7 as many people recommend it. But what interface should i use to go with it?
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/4718

Perhaps i shouldnt use Logic pro at all but perhaps look at pro tools?

Or perhaps neither of those?

What interface could i use across these that would have a fair few XLR as well as 1/4 inputs?

~~ TS ~~

I'm using logic and a Motu 828 mkII in studio. The 828's are interconnectable, so if you want more connections, you can daisy chain them together. Great devices.

Anyways, a firewire input is probably going to be your best bet, unless you go with something like protools, but protools is expensive and not neccessarily the best option.

Hey thanks for the reply Village Idiot

The Motu 828 mkII looks very cool, and would seem to suit the sort of thing im looking to do. I presume with it being firewire or USB2, that for example, If i plug things into channels 1, 2, 3, and 4 on the Motu 828 mkII, It comes onto my mac as 4 SEPERATE channels?

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Hey thanks for the reply Village Idiot

The Motu 828 mkII looks very cool, and would seem to suit the sort of thing im looking to do. I presume with it being firewire or USB2, that for example, If i plug things into channels 1, 2, 3, and 4 on the Motu 828 mkII, It comes onto my mac as 4 SEPERATE channels?

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

Yes. You can record up to 10 inputs at a time with the 828. Presonus makes the firepods and Apogee has some equipment. I just mentioned Motu as that's what I have experience with and it's expandable. Recording a drumset alone can set you back at least 3 inputs, and that's when you ge the rare occasion of a drummer on a 3 piece set. Usually you're looking 4-5 for a decently micced normal drummer. You're probably not going to record a full band in a room together because of track bleed and all, but you'll always have the option too with the right equipment.

Me and another guy were goofing around with my guitar which I just brought over. We stuck one AT2020 about 2-3 inches infront of the cab and played for a bit. With the setup we have, it sounds pretty nice.

Maybe see what software you'll be using at university? That way you can work on projects at home as well as in uni. Im on a Music Tech course myself and we mainly use Cubase and Audition, for example, for multi track recordings.

Before splashing out on Logic PRO check Logic Express. It still has tons of features and the Pro version may have features that you'll never use.

I see your in the UK as well! Which uni are you at?

Hey there Stefan

I will be studying at ARU (cambridge) starting in september. I will phone them later today after my A level exam to find out what software we use mainly, and hopefully that will narrow it down somewhat.

Also I will look at logic express later, thanks for the heads up

~~ TS ~~

Ive made a first provisional shopping list although bare in mind it could entirely change

Whadya think?

Alesis RA150 (Poweramp @ 75watts per channel) - £94.95
Tannoy Reveal 6 (Monitors) - £155
Motu 828 MKII USB - £328
Apple Logic Pro 7.2 - £599

Total - £1176.95

I know i will need some cables etc, advice anyone?

Does everyone think the USB version will be ok? It says it can do 10 tracks playback/recording which sounds ok to me considerin the most i usually do is around 6 to 8 tracks at once

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Ive made a first provisional shopping list although bare in mind it could entirely change

Whadya think?

Alesis RA150 (Poweramp @ 75watts per channel) - £94.95
Tannoy Reveal 6 (Monitors) - £155
Motu 828 MKII USB - £328
Apple Logic Pro 7.2 - £599

Total - £1176.95

I know i will need some cables etc, advice anyone?

Does everyone think the USB version will be ok? It says it can do 10 tracks playback/recording which sounds ok to me considerin the most i usually do is around 6 to 8 tracks at once

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

Firewire. No USB

Apple gives about $400 US off of Logic Pro with the academic discount, look it up on their site.

You'll probably need a mixing board if you don't have one. You can plug directly into the motu and it has two preamped xlr inputs, but there's better out there. I have a Mackie VLZ 1402. It has 6 preamped inputs and an additional 8 inputs without preamps. The preamps sound pretty good for not being a $1000 dedicated mic preamp.

Can you even chain the USB version together? Anyways, the firewire will have a better transfer rate and you'll probably be dealing with latency issues less.

I don't know where you're getting your equipment, but here's a few from a US supplier.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-1402VLZ3-Compact-Mixer-120V-?sku=630132
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828MkII/

As for cables it depends what your doing. If your running guitars straight in you'll want 1/4" Jack-Jacks with a DI box. If everything is micced just get a stack of XLR cables.

metalsam said:

As for cables it depends what your doing. If your running guitars straight in you'll want 1/4" Jack-Jacks with a DI box. If everything is micced just get a stack of XLR cables.

Click to expand...

And running a direct out on a guitar amp is pretty useless if you're recording with a tube amp or something similar. It may not be such a big deal on something like a line 6 or another digital amp, but you lose the tone and feel of the tube amp / speaker cabinet combo if you don't mic it. Some people suggest 2 mics even. It's definitely a little tricky when you get going, but figuring it out is part of the fun.

I'd say go buy 10 1/4" cables, nothing spectacularly long or expensive, as cables from motu to mixer and etc, then the xlr's for whatever mics you're wanting to use. If you're on a budget, the Audi Technica AT2020 is an awesome condensor for the price. They run $100USD, but sound better than some mics 3 and 4 times the price.

Hey Village Idiot, why so against USB2? I know in real world tests it doesnt keep up with firewire, but would a company make something utilising the USB2 format if it didnt work? Or is latency an issue?

As for where im getting my stuff? ANYWHERE in the Uk basically, so using my list, if you wouldnt mind, could you construct a better list perhaps?

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Hey Village Idiot, why so against USB2? I know in real world tests it doesnt keep up with firewire, but would a company make something utilising the USB2 format if it didnt work? Or is latency an issue?

As for where im getting my stuff? ANYWHERE in the Uk basically, so using my list, if you wouldnt mind, could you construct a better list perhaps?

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

I haven't personally used USB, but if you have a better option, why not use it? I figure that some times people have latency issues as it is, trying to record 10 inputs at the same time is a lot of bandwith that has to travel over that cord.

And it depends where you're setting it up, but if you already have a receiver and home stereo, you can use that instead of the amp. It's not ideal, but it's free.

Although I do have a home stereo etc, Id rather buy a proper poweramp and monitors mainly for when I do eventually move out, I will still have all the gear ready to go

As for USB V Firewire, Ill go with the firewire option if it is the best way forward

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Although I do have a home stereo etc, Id rather buy a proper poweramp and monitors mainly for when I do eventually move out, I will still have all the gear ready to go

As for USB V Firewire, Ill go with the firewire option if it is the best way forward

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

I was looking around a little bit and found some prices. What's dumb is you can't get the 828 firewire for the same price as the usb over there. Here they're the same. Check e-bay for the mackie mixers. I got mine for about $150 off of the new price on ebay.

http://www.dv247.com/invt/1888

MOTU 828 MkII Firewire Interface £489.00

http://www.gear4music.com

Mackie 1402 VLZ3 Mixer £ 319.00

http://www.apple.com/uk/

Logic Pro 7 £448.85

firewire vs usb for recording. Not by a professional, but the basic principals are there.

http://www.podcastpedant.com/2006/05/10/firewire-vs-usb/

Heya

Ive looked at the Mackie 1402 but theres something i dont understand...

I understand the theory of my inputs going into the mackie so i can control input level and EQ etc, but then how do i get SEPERATE tracks out of the mackie and not just a stereo line?

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Heya

Ive looked at the Mackie 1402 but theres something i dont understand...

I understand the theory of my inputs going into the mackie so i can control input level and EQ etc, but then how do i get SEPERATE tracks out of the mackie and not just a stereo line?

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

mackie has 6 preamp channels with 6 "inserts". The inserts are a direct line out from the mixer, controlled by the trim. I think that they are sent pre eq adjustments. channel 1 has your mic plugged in and an "insert" (funny name for an output) ran to the input in the motu. Channel 2 has a guitar mic plugged in and a line ran from the insert for channel two to the 2nd input on the motu.

The motu is connected via firewire to the mac.

You would open logic and add two audio tracks, specifying the input for each track. Track 1 would be input 1 and track two would be input 2, each track recording what is ran into the corresponding channel on the mixer.

So when you record, you can record both inputs at once, or seperately.

And the most frustrating part is going to be getting every thing to "work right". It's easy once you figure it out, but getting the plugs in the right places and the inital settings can be a bit confusing at first.

Ok you posted whilst i did

So in theory:

example 1:

~~ Inputs into mackie ~~

Channel 1 - Drum
Channel 2 - Drum
Channel 3 - Guitar 1
Channel 4 - Guitar 2
Channel 5 - Bass

~~ Inserts from mackie (ala send 'n' returns?) ~~

1 - 5 Into Motu in same order

~~ Logic ~~

1 -1
2-2
3-3
4-4
5-5

?

**** i didnt know this style of digitial recording was so hard

~~ TS ~~

TenderSurrender said:

Ok you posted whilst i did

So in theory:

example 1:

~~ Inputs into mackie ~~

Channel 1 - Drum
Channel 2 - Drum
Channel 3 - Guitar 1
Channel 4 - Guitar 2
Channel 5 - Bass

~~ Inserts from mackie (ala send 'n' returns?) ~~

1 - 5 Into Motu in same order

~~ Logic ~~

1 -1
2-2
3-3
4-4
5-5

?

**** i didnt know this style of digitial recording was so hard

~~ TS ~~

Click to expand...

Close. They're actually labeled "Inserts" Sends and returns are often used for effects I believe. I haven't messed around with any out board effects as everything I've been using is digital, but when we get to that I'll be able to tell you.

Other than that, that's correct.

You can even assign the same input to multiple channels and record at the same time or differently. I usually do that for vocals when some one wants to double their vocals or for harmonies and such. You may get people that want to double guitar tracks, but that's died down a bit since the 80's.

Logic has a steep learning curve. People say Digital Performer is easier to use but doesn't have the depth of Logic. I think you'll like it if you choose to go that way though. They also will tell you that Pro Tools is the industry standard, but that's kind of like people saying Apple computers are the best at graphics and such. Pro Tools was pretty much the first solution for digital recording and so people just kind of stick with it. It's integration is a little easier since the hardward and software go together, but it's sooooo expensive once you get out of the basic setups.

I think it's a US only company, but check out, http://www.sweetwater.com/ . They have a large selection of pro audio and digital stuff. You can kind of get an idea of what to look for. I'm not sure what's out there for UK people, but if you can find a large well known company that has good service and the products you need, that's often times more important than the cheapest price.