Reasons I am GRATEFUL for Windows....

I, being a 2 month old Mac user, love my MBP, but I have to be honest. I am grateful for ALL of my windows machines. I thought I would start a thread that would celebrate the things I, or we, learned from owning a Windows machine.

The one thing I do ask is that people don't start posting stuff like:

I hate windoze
Bill Gates Sucks

Etc....

The truth is that one of the hardest things for me when deciding to switch is to admit that I found something better then what I had used for the past 15-20 years. If we all did the switch on just tech issues it would be a no brainer, but the fact is that we are emotional beings.

People who are new, want to know, need to know that they were not DUPED for the past years by marketing. There are valuable skills that we have all learned from them, and I think we need to tell those things to gain more recruits.

Ok, let's start.....:

"Hello, My name is DeathtoToasters." I say.

"Hi, DeathtoToasters" says the crowd.

"Hi, Everyone. It has been 2 months since I have used my last dedicated windows machine. I just wanted to express how grateful I am to windows for helping make my use of my MBP so much easier and more productive"

Curious looks form the crowd.

"Hold on a sec" I say while holding my hands up in surrender.
"We all have to admit we have learned something valuable from using or owning a Windows machine. Even if it is just learning how much we love our Mac's"

A few nods and amen's.

"Ok, Well to open the discussions, here are some of the things I am grateful for:

1) I learned how not to just throw the computer when it gets me mad, but I leaned how to troubleshoot correctly and through a process.

2) I also learned how to appreciate a machine that actually can multi task well, my MAC.

3) I learned how to make some good excuses for other people by just saying "Hey must have been a computer error"


Ok, Ok, Ok, that last one was a joke. (Kind Of)

So I hope those are some starting points for this new discussion.

Please feel free to add your thoughts.

Thank You"

(Lines of people start coming to the podium)

Okay this is what I got out of Windows and PC's. Due to all the things that would go wrong I actually learned a lot about Operating Systems and hardware just by troubleshooting. Fixing problems forces you to analyse and problem solve. I still know more about Windows underpinnings than I do about OSX.

One thing that I learned from using a Pc was that your hair really does grow back in thicker after having pulled it all out..........

MrsRed said:

One thing that I learned from using a Pc was that your hair really does grow back in thicker after having pulled it all out..........

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HAHAHA!!!

MrsRed said:

One thing that I learned from using a Pc was that your hair really does grow back in thicker after having pulled it all out..........

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haha. Comedy gold.

I learned LOTS of patience!!

I learned that Windows was better than DOS (for what that's worth!).

There are a lot of things that many people have learned because of Windows but don't realize. The majority of computer users would not know what "cut and paste" means. They wouldn't know what "minimize" and "maximize" are either. The fact is that for most people the entire concept of a windowed environment and unified menu systems wouldn't be what they are without Windows. This doesn't mean that Microsoft gets full credit for the creation and concept of these things. It only means that they brought it to the masses. Now, along with all of the UI advancements came all the hacks, viruses, etc. To be fair though, if Mac had been the prevailing leader then all of those attacks may have been aimed at Mac OS. This could still happen, at some level, as the popularity of Macs increase. My point here is that as evil as everyone makes Microsoft out to be, they did advance the use of computers in many ways.

I do think that the Mac OS is a better system for the most part. I don't wear rose colored glasses so there is no such thing as a perfect OS. I'm very happy with my MacBook Pro but there are still plenty of reasons for me to keep my Vista desktop and my Vista laptop.

I'm going to say that troubleshooting was one of the best things I ever learned from Windows. I usually don't have many problems since I practice some simple preventive maintenance thing, but between friends and family I've had had a lot of practice troubleshooting. Sure, it can be annoying, but I've learned a lot about pc's over the years and it's made me a smarter computer user, a quicker problem-solver, etc.

I'm sure that once I finally make the switch, I'll really appreciate the new machine and OS.

NaplesBill said:

There are a lot of things that many people have learned because of Windows but don't realize. The majority of computer users would not know what "cut and paste" means. They wouldn't know what "minimize" and "maximize" are either. The fact is that for most people the entire concept of a windowed environment and unified menu systems wouldn't be what they are without Windows. This doesn't mean that Microsoft gets full credit for the creation and concept of these things. It only means that they brought it to the masses.

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That's sort of like saying that many people would not know what a steering wheel was if not for the Ford Taurus. Just because millions of people learned these things while using Windows (or the Macintosh) does not mean they would not have learned them using an alternative.

For all of its warts, the most recent incarnations of Windows handle networking very well. I learned the basics of TCP/IP, network design, support and configuration with Microsoft products and I do believe it would have been a lot more difficult to do so in Unix/Linux. So, aside from what the other posters have mentioned about troubleshooting, I'm grateful to Windows for the experience I've gained in having a solid grasp of networking.

cwa107 said:

For all of its warts, the most recent incarnations of Windows handle networking very well. I learned the basics of TCP/IP, network design, support and configuration with Microsoft products and I do believe it would have been a lot more difficult to do so in Unix/Linux. So, aside from what the other posters have mentioned about troubleshooting, I'm grateful to Windows for the experience I've gained in having a solid grasp of networking.

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From a historical perspective, I think this is hilarious.

Unix and TCP/IP went together almost since day one. When TCP/IP was first being deployed on the ARPANET decades ago, it was mostly deployed on Unix systems.

Apple eventually came up with MacTCP in the late '80s...mostly as a curiosity, but TCP on the Mac eventually led to some of the first GUI-enabled internet applicaions...Eudora and NewsWatcher and such.

In the early '90s, Windows still couldn't connect to the internet...because it didn't even have a TCP/IP stack! WinSock did not come along until 1992, and there were several implementations...many by third parties (anyone rememer Trumpet Winsock?) before Microsoft finally standardized on its own.

So, yes, Windows and TCP/IP get along beautifully today...but its funny to me that someone would associate the two.

technologist said:

From a historical perspective, I think this is hilarious.

Unix and TCP/IP went together almost since day one. When TCP/IP was first being deployed on the ARPANET decades ago, it was mostly deployed on Unix systems.

Apple eventually came up with MacTCP in the late '80s...mostly as a curiosity, but TCP on the Mac eventually led to some of the first GUI-enabled internet applicaions...Eudora and NewsWatcher and such.

In the early '90s, Windows still couldn't connect to the internet...because it didn't even have a TCP/IP stack! WinSock did not come along until 1992, and there were several implementations...many by third parties (anyone rememer Trumpet Winsock?) before Microsoft finally standardized on its own.

So, yes, Windows and TCP/IP get along beautifully today

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I was referring to recent incarnations, as I said in the paragraph you quoted (meaning NT, 2000). I started out in networking as a career path around the time MS started gaining serious ground from Novell. So, as it relates to the topic of this thread - learning network administration with a decent and relatively easy set of tools - that is what I'm grateful to Windows for. I'm fully aware of the history of TCP/IP.

...but its funny to me that someone would associate the two.

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Because you're operating under the assertion that I said I'm thankful for Windows because of TCP/IP. That's not at all what I said. Re-read my original post.

technologist said:

That's sort of like saying that many people would not know what a steering wheel was if not for the Ford Taurus. Just because millions of people learned these things while using Windows (or the Macintosh) does not mean they would not have learned them using an alternative.

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That's a bad analogy. There are a lot of things that Windows brought to the masses at an accellerated rate. You can't just say "we would have learned them using an alternative" because that is pure speculation. There is no way of knowing how much longer(or possible faster but doubtful) these things would have taken to make it to the masses. Whether you like MS or not they did avance computing in MANY ways. Before Windows you had to try and use DOS programs to share data and it was very inconsistent and seldom worked properly. Windows enabled so many ways of sharing and accessing data it was amazing in the early days. People take it all for granted now but I was around before Windows. Apple was around then too but unable to attain the success of MS. It doesn't matter how MS attained that success at this point. It only matters that they did. You cannot say that a Ford Taurus brought anything NEW to the masses or in any way accellerated technology or automobile development.

NaplesBill said:

You cannot say that a Ford Taurus brought anything NEW to the masses or in any way accellerated technology or automobile development.

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And yet millions learned to drive with one. That is his point. It was simply a vehicle (no pun intended) for training, although many ended up owning one for everyday use, just like Windows. My wife learned to use a computer with DOS, Win 3.1, Win 95/98/Me/XP but now prefers a Mac. Windows was the tool to learn about computers that got her where she is today.

The big difference is that the Ford Taurus was one of literally Thousands of makes of cars that the masses could use, Windows was one of less than a small handful of OSs one could use, and really only one of 4 or 5 that the average user could use to learn modern GUI based basics.

Before Windows you had to try and use DOS programs to share data and it was very inconsistent and seldom worked properly. Windows enabled so many ways of sharing and accessing data it was amazing in the early days. People take it all for granted now but I was around before Windows.

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Didn't the Amiga have a windowed GUI operating system back in 1985? Windows was well behind the times back in the day and it was only really in 1993 that Windows started to take off. I think the marketing and selling acumen of MS had more to do with how things are today rather than having a decent product.

You guys are missing the point on what Windows did for PCs. Sure there were Amigas and there were Apples back when Windows started. The difference between Windows and the other choices was compatibility. Windows offered a path to a GUI with the ability to run existing DOS applications. This was especially important for businesses who were already invested in DOS apps. People who worked with DOS/Windows at work liked to have the same thing at home for ease of use and compatibility as well. The other difference between Windows and the other systems is that Windows did not require you to buy a PC from IBM or MS. You could build your own machine to your liking and then load Windows. You can try and discount the contributions that MS has given to the computing world all you want but the truth will still be there. That does not mean that Microsoft is the best at everything but they do offer the broadest appeal.

I do think the Mac OSX is a better OS in most ways. Some things are a little oversimplified but that is about the only bad thing I could say. I'm not a MS fanboy either but I have been dealing with computers and IT for 17 years. I have been looking for something worthy of replacing MS as my main system for years and the MBP/OSX fits the bill very nicely. I do not regret purchasing it at all.

NaplesBill said:

The majority of computer users would not know what "cut and paste" means. They wouldn't know what "minimize" and "maximize" are either. The fact is that for most people the entire concept of a windowed environment and unified menu systems wouldn't be what they are without Windows. This doesn't mean that Microsoft gets full credit for the creation and concept of these things. It only means that they brought it to the masses.

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The Amiga had all of these things way before Windows came out. Amiga was the one who brought it to the masses. Multitasking, task switching, minimize, maximize, etc... you name it the Amiga had it. But IBM took them out in one hit.

....

One thing I'm happy for in owning my windows PC... is I finally know what everyone is referring to when they say the "blue screen of death".

I can honestly say nothing at all.

I didn't even touch a Windows box outside of a very restrictive work environment until the Demise of Acorn in the late 90's.

I learned programming on a PET, multitasking and windowing on QD0S, Atari and Amiga, proper GUI (cut and paste etc) on RiscOS and Unix, Application "Dock" on RiscOS.

I "switched" to Win 95 in the late 90's, then NT4, then Win98SE and finally (almost bald by then) to OS X on version 10.1 (What was that one called? Alley Cat?).

My hair has all grown back again now. ;-)

Amen-Moses

bonafide said:

The Amiga had all of these things way before Windows came out. Amiga was the one who brought it to the masses. Multitasking, task switching, minimize, maximize, etc... you name it the Amiga had it. But IBM took them out in one hit.

....

One thing I'm happy for in owning my windows PC... is I finally know what everyone is referring to when they say the "blue screen of death".

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The Amiga was an amazing piece of hardware and software. It did not, however, bring anything to the masses because it never reached the masses. It was way ahead of it's time for sure. My point is that MS is the company who capitalized and brought computing to everyone. There are plenty of "tech people" who would have learned many of the things that Windows taught the world, regardless of MS, but that is a minority of users.