Mac zealots - Better? - Think not, Just different

Upfront, apologize to any that may be offended, this is just my rant for the day. And, why I am posting this here and not in the "Switchers" forum.

Now, don't get me wrong here. After 3 weeks, I think this MBP just may be one of the better and one of the most enjoyable computer purchases I have made, and there have been a lot of them since that first TI-99 back sometime in 1981 or '82. (Should have bought a laptop long time ago, but just couldn't bring myself to do it because I was always needing to upgrade my desktop.)

And, must say, I have to applaud many of the Mod's here in this forum (particularly enjoy D3v1L80Y's seemingly unbiased posts and straight forward responses) and also many who are not Mod's (MHC, eric, & ToddG come to mind at present, probably because I just read one of their excellent posts, there are many others, excuse me for not mentioning you all here), for showing us 'switchers' how to accomplish what we have come to view as the everyday "ordinary" tasks that we have grown accustomed to in the Windows, BSD, or Linux world over the years here in OS X. We 'Switchers' - Thank you all.

Hopefully, I speak for many of us whom the Mac long timers would call a 'switcher'. It's as good a term and maybe not as degrading sounding as 'Newbie' used for the those trying out Linux for the first time. At least some of the long timers in Linux make it sound degrading, though there are forums in Linux land getting much better than they were in the 90's. But, I digress.

Kind of doubt that I will become a true 'switcher'. As a long time computer enthusiast and gamer (although I don't do as much gaming as I use to - reflexes and timing just don't seem to be able to keep up with the youngsters any more), I can't conceive (at least right now) of giving up my windows box. I can however, foresee the possibility of OS X becoming my primary OS, which for me, Linux still cannot do and is really only a toy to play with.

I know, long winded, so on to the point. We're not bothered being reminded (on occasion that is) that OS X is different. But, better? - don't think so, just different. Better? - In some ways, yes - much; in others, not even close. "Better" is always in the eye of the beholder. I am not speaking about posts where someone is describing their new found joy with computers again, or their excitement with their first Mac. This is my first Mac and I'm still excited (and not easily excitable at my age any more). I love to read those posts, as I am sure most of us do. No, I am speaking about replies to existing posts (Fanboys we call them in Linux land). Particularly, where someone is asking "how-to" or has become frustrated trying to figure something out based on their 'old way'. A comment of "do it like ..... and you may find this way 'better'..." Yes, we might, then again we might not.

Either way, if it is, or if it's not "better".....Thanks so much, but we can make that determination for ourselves.

great post! seems well thought out and non-inflamatory.

for sure, it's a feeling, or thought process i believe many of us do have. OS X is different, and likely preferable to the alternative (mostly windows). categorically better? that can only be opinion. but of course, being here, it will surely be the opinion of many people.

also, i even fall victim to the feel good feeling he OS gives me at times. got an issue? hey! try this... it works great, and you may just kick yourself for having to do it the other way in windows!
i think anyone who enjoys anything is capable of that kind of enthusiasm, fanboy or not (you should hear me talk about my kid, my favorite bands, or my subaru!).

The psychology behind all things Apple is very interesting, and one of the things you have to consider is that the average Apple/OSX/Mac user choosed Apple, while on the other hand the average Windows user just took what was in front of him/her. If an individual chooses something it is because it is better (for the individual), not because it is worse or similar, thus the response you talk about is expected. Not only that, but because this individual chooses something different he or she has to defend his/her choice against the opinion of a majority. If you think this sounds like being part of a religion or political party you are right, that is why i think the name "zealots" fits to many Apple users.
I'm not talking about specific situations or people in this forum or outside it, just about general terms. You are right by saying that everyone should determine what is better for themselves, but if you ask to a group like Apple users (again, in general terms) don't expect them not to defend their position (Apple is better, this way is better).
While this psychology class is no excuse for improper behavior, at least i hope you can understand why some of us may answer in that way.

There is another thing to add to this mix. We have always been considered as minority users, which is true but I put behind that word a derogatory meaning in there as well.

In the 90s if you used a Mac you were using a toy, not a real computer, for example. And many system techies would not even look at a Mac dismissing it all together because it wasn't serious as a computing platform.

I have no problem with someone switching and still using Windows what I have a hard time with is switchers wanting to use an Apple box but wanting it to be, look and feel just like Windows.

Interesting post and no offense taken. People should not ever have to say 'I hope this doesn't cause offense' when making intelligent comments.

Firstly, I am not sure abut the title, but that's probably me being stupid. Is it meant to be aimed at Mac Zealots? I think the assumption that there is such a thing and that they make up a significant population of this board and need addressing somehow, might be unfair. The only Zealots I have seen here during my short 3 month tenure have been 'switchers' who have had a bad time and come on here to ask why their Mac didn't cure AIDS or world hunger.

Minority groups, whatever the situation, are usually more defensive and passionate about their group identity than the majority. The same is true of computer users. What annoys me is the assumption made on all sides that if you make a choice in what you use, somehow allies you with a particular company, brand or even personality. It doesn't occur to the extremists that as a Windows user, you may use Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org and be part of or contribute to the OpenSource community. Yet a Mac user may buy absolutely every Apple gadget and application that is humanly possible. Who's 'thinking different' there? Of course, it could be the other way around. Most of it is about education, many users just take the easiest route and install the most readily available apps.

I totally agree with what you say about 'better'. It's entirely objective, but again I think nearly all the responses I have seen on this board and certainly the responses I have made myself when someone asks 'which is better' have been along the lines of, 'well depends what you want to achieve'.

I am a recent switcher and I am very happy that I did so. The Mac experience for me has been great and I genuinely found myself spending more of my computer based time being creative, rather than wondering what configuration change I need to make to achieve something. It's not just the OS, it's the software. Logic is 10x more intuitive than Cubase ever was, iPhoto just works and iTunes, Fetch, iDVD etc just do their job without making their presence even known. Having said that, I still use FireFox, I bought MS Office 2004 (and will be head of the line for Mac Office 2007) and I even still run Windows for Parallels.

One final thing on Linux. I gave Linux a really good try out around 1998 and then again in 2006, just before going to the Mac. Linux users rave about how it's free, more secure, more stable etc than Windows and all this is true to an extent. The 'free' bit though, does annoy me somewhat. Something being 'free' is also subjective. It is possible to buy your Mac or Windows machine and pay the $130 or $300 for the OS and then from that point on, just use OpenSource software. With Linux, you may not pay for the OS, but you'll certainly spend a lot of time configuring, tweaking and playing around just to get simple things like Windows Media or even QuickTime working. Ubuntu is making this a little easier and their community is very helpful, but I don't know about you but my time is very precious. If I spend 40 hours in total setting up a Linux install (which I did with Ubuntu more or less) that more than covers the price of OS X, Vista and two machines combined and is time I'll never get back. So it's all about the individual and what's important to them. What's important to me now is having something that just works, looks nice and is powerful. For me, that said 'Macintosh'.

...sorry for the long post... :black:

Zoolook said:

The only Zealots I have seen here during my short 3 month tenure have been 'switchers' who have had a bad time and come on here to ask why their Mac didn't cure AIDS or world hunger.

Click to expand...

I don't know about world hunger but Macs can cure AIDS, just join the Mac Forums Folding team.

Better? I wouldn't say better but easier. I've used both and still do . I like the fact I can go right to work and not have to update all my spyware programs, I like the fact there is no registry to mess with or Bios to worry about. But what I really like, try this yourself. Put your pc next to your Mac, everything looks better on a Mac. At first I thought it was because of the video card, but not so. I probably won't be getting the MBP anytime soon, the reason is because I talked my company into getting 20 Macs before the Intel came out. They were so happy with production the bought me a brand new PB 1.67GHz that's still in the box. Figures don't lie, since getting the Mac, production is up over 35%. There just is to much wasted time using a pc. Maybe I'm wrong but........................

Bob -- Thanks for the kind words. :ninja:

Whether OS X is "better" really depends on the user and the user's needs.

My last vehicle was a Toyota 4Runner SUV. My current is an Infiniti G35x sedan. Which is "better?" They're much different vehicles. The 4Runner had a lot more utilitarian functionality given my line of work. The G35x is a lot more fun to drive on twisty roads, on highways, or on the rare chance I get it on a track.

So, I'd rather have the Infiniti. There are sacrifices I have to make -- things I could do easily with the 4Runner that I can't do anymore -- but on balance the sports sedan is a better fit for me.

I have been using Windows since 3.11. I was using DOS long before that. And before that I was writing programs in BASIC on my dad's Apple ][+. For me, for my needs, the Mac OS is a better choice than XP or Vista.

The best way I can say it is that OS X doesn't get in my way when I'm trying to work. It's elegant, from an engineering standpoint. I no longer have to combat the control panel, wrestle with the registry, punch dozens of pop-up menus, or deal with endless downloads as the system tries to fix and secure itself almost daily.

Are there applications I wish I could run natively rather than in Parallels or BootCamp? Sure.

Are there things that I'm used to doing in Windows that take some exploring and practice to do "naturally" in Mac? Sure.

But my Mac doesn't get in my way. It doesn't frustrate me. It doesn't insist on shutting down when I want to work. It doesn't put me to sleep running twelve different "security" protocols each time it starts. It just ... works.

Plus, people think my bright red MBP is cool.

bobtomay said:

Upfront, apologize to any that may be offended, this is just my rant for the day. And, why I am posting this here and not in the "Switchers" forum.

Now, don't get me wrong here. After 3 weeks, I think this MBP just may be one of the better and one of the most enjoyable computer purchases I have made, and there have been a lot of them since that first TI-99 back sometime in 1981 or '82. (Should have bought a laptop long time ago, but just couldn't bring myself to do it because I was always needing to upgrade my desktop.)

And, must say, I have to applaud many of the Mod's here in this forum (particularly enjoy D3v1L80Y's seemingly unbiased posts and straight forward responses) and also many who are not Mod's (MHC, eric, & ToddG come to mind at present, probably because I just read one of their excellent posts, there are many others, excuse me for not mentioning you all here), for showing us 'switchers' how to accomplish what we have come to view as the everyday "ordinary" tasks that we have grown accustomed to in the Windows, BSD, or Linux world over the years here in OS X. We 'Switchers' - Thank you all.

Hopefully, I speak for many of us whom the Mac long timers would call a 'switcher'. It's as good a term and maybe not as degrading sounding as 'Newbie' used for the those trying out Linux for the first time. At least some of the long timers in Linux make it sound degrading, though there are forums in Linux land getting much better than they were in the 90's. But, I digress.

Kind of doubt that I will become a true 'switcher'. As a long time computer enthusiast and gamer (although I don't do as much gaming as I use to - reflexes and timing just don't seem to be able to keep up with the youngsters any more), I can't conceive (at least right now) of giving up my windows box. I can however, foresee the possibility of OS X becoming my primary OS, which for me, Linux still cannot do and is really only a toy to play with.

I know, long winded, so on to the point. We're not bothered being reminded (on occasion that is) that OS X is different. But, better? - don't think so, just different. Better? - In some ways, yes - much; in others, not even close. "Better" is always in the eye of the beholder. I am not speaking about posts where someone is describing their new found joy with computers again, or their excitement with their first Mac. This is my first Mac and I'm still excited (and not easily excitable at my age any more). I love to read those posts, as I am sure most of us do. No, I am speaking about replies to existing posts (Fanboys we call them in Linux land). Particularly, where someone is asking "how-to" or has become frustrated trying to figure something out based on their 'old way'. A comment of "do it like ..... and you may find this way 'better'..." Yes, we might, then again we might not.

Either way, if it is, or if it's not "better".....Thanks so much, but we can make that determination for ourselves.

Click to expand...

That was an absolutely great post and I agree with most of it.

There are a number of new Mac users who have come here and said the same thing in a completely offensive way with none of the grace and dignity you have displayed. I've been using Macs for 12 years, and still use a PC on a daily basis. Nearly all long time Mac users do, it is a Windows world out there there is no getting around it.

What gets me is when new Mac users, or others, come here and tell us how much "better" Windows is or how the Mac doesn't work the way it should or how Windows does things more logically or how we must all have "drank the Kool-Aid" and so on. I also find it amazing how difficult it is for many new Mac users to "think outside the box", in other-words not assume that a Mac is Windows and therefore everything will be the same.

The term "better" is highly subjective, but one has to wonder why there are so many who use both systems on a daily basis and yet still choose the Mac for personal use. 90% of Windows users have never touched a Mac but will tell you why Windows is better. 99.9% of Mac users use Windows daily. Who understands the ups and downs of both systems better?

Only you can decide what is best for what you do with a computer.