I'm still on the fence

As a long time Windows user, with a family of them as well, I still can't fully decide if the Mac is the right way to go.

I actually went to the Apple store in Soho, with wife and 3 kids in tow, to buy the 20" iMac. After they all played with it for a while they were all convinced, and I was pretty convinced myself. The one remaining issue was resolved of course by Bootcamp.

But then there's the price. When all is said and done it comes in over 2kUSD. For 2k I can get a Dell with all the bells and whistles, and other machines with even more. The other issue is the upgradeability. You can't upgrade this machine. If some new hot hardware comes out next year, such as an HD all in one recorder/dvd player/sat rcvr, I can't use it unless it's an external box. I guess the alternative would be a big box system with expansion slots, something Apple is still working on.

I'd used a Mac when I worked at an ad agency about 8 or 9 years ago, as a programmer for business systems. The graphics/creatives all used macs so we had to program for the mac. I never fully embraced it then, preferring windows. I did have a 20" monitor, which back then was a very big deal.

Ultimately the only reason I'm not a Mac user today is that the store didn't have a 20" iMac with 256mb VRAM in stock. I was at the counter, credit card in hand, when the sales guy (if you can call him that) came back empty handed. He called the other store and they didn't have one either. They didn't seem to care at all that I was walking out on a $2k sale. Most places they'd be following you out the door trying to get you to commit to something. I guess that's what wrong with a semi-monopoly. If you want a Mac, you can only get it from Apple.

Buy from the online store. I agree that the Macs are all very expensive and you could buy 3 dells for that price. But the product is great and with the intel processor and bootcamp, the sky's the limit.

I had your same feelings about hardware and stuff. but i figured that i would cross that bridge when i got to it. the past 4 years i havent bought anything for my PC except a TV tuner that i loaded on a spare desktop i had. and then i never used it.

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

Mac's simply aren't for everbody. They inherently are not better than a PC, just different, which most people confuse for better. The majority of people on this forum are switchers, which are people that absolutely hate Windows and do not use PC's in their lives, with the exception of school or work if they are forced to. Then you have what I call dual users. I fall into this category because I maintain two Apple computers at home along with 3 windows based PC's. I enjoy both of the platforms and will continue to use Windows in some capacity on a day to day basis.

One of my Apple computers is a 20" Intel imac. I love that machine because its speedy, stable, and full of neat programs such as the iLife suite. You mention that you have kids, and I think bringing them up on an imac would be a really good experience for them. It gives them a chance to learn something different and for you to put together home movies and photo albums if you choose, all hassle free.

Your mention of price is a sore spot with me. I personally think that Apple has an overpriced product. Except for an exterior case with rounded corners, the guts of their computers are right there with a PC. They both use the same processors, video cards, ram, hard drives etc. With Apple you are paying a premium for their software and the salaries of their design team. Is it worth it? To a lot of people it is, and to many others it isn't. Thats a decision that only you can make. I can only say that I have no regrets in purchasing my macs as I am on my 12" Powerbook 80% of the time. The attitude you got from Apple about not having the computer was because, as you stated, you get it from them or you don't get it at all. But also take into consideration that you wanted a custom imac by upgrading the vram to 256mb versus 128mb.

Weighing the pros and cons I still say go for the 20" imac. I had the same thoughts looking at Dells that you did. I could go and purchase a screaming fast PC for almost half the price of a comparable mac. But 5 years from now, your mac will most likely be able to run the latest OS from Apple and will actually retain most of its value. Good luck with your decision.

It wasn't a "take it or leave it" attitude, more of a "whatEVER" type attitude. I wouldn't call it custom either, the Apple stores usually do stock them that way. I think the resellers have to order them custom.

I'll probably still get one, maybe I should just order it online since I won't get to the store again until next week anyway. They said I should just come back later in the week and they'd have it. My biggest fear with online is UPS, they've been really bad about deliveries lately in my neighborhood.

My old Dell is a 7 year old P3/450mhz win 98 machine. It won't run anything new anymore. Its a good thing we have corporate laptops.

zacster said:

As a long time Windows user, with a family of them as well, I still can't fully decide if the Mac is the right way to go.

I actually went to the Apple store in Soho, with wife and 3 kids in tow, to buy the 20" iMac. After they all played with it for a while they were all convinced, and I was pretty convinced myself. The one remaining issue was resolved of course by Bootcamp.

But then there's the price. When all is said and done it comes in over 2kUSD. For 2k I can get a Dell with all the bells and whistles, and other machines with even more. The other issue is the upgradeability. You can't upgrade this machine. If some new hot hardware comes out next year, such as an HD all in one recorder/dvd player/sat rcvr, I can't use it unless it's an external box. I guess the alternative would be a big box system with expansion slots, something Apple is still working on.

I'd used a Mac when I worked at an ad agency about 8 or 9 years ago, as a programmer for business systems. The graphics/creatives all used macs so we had to program for the mac. I never fully embraced it then, preferring windows. I did have a 20" monitor, which back then was a very big deal.

Ultimately the only reason I'm not a Mac user today is that the store didn't have a 20" iMac with 256mb VRAM in stock. I was at the counter, credit card in hand, when the sales guy (if you can call him that) came back empty handed. He called the other store and they didn't have one either. They didn't seem to care at all that I was walking out on a $2k sale. Most places they'd be following you out the door trying to get you to commit to something. I guess that's what wrong with a semi-monopoly. If you want a Mac, you can only get it from Apple.

Click to expand...

Lots of sales clerks today are not really trained in sales, nor do they care. They are often college kids with no clue how the real world works, so they cannot even fathom the concept that they are losing a $2,000 sale. Oh well. As for Mac? I am switching because I got tired of Windows crashing, freezing, slowing down, software compatibility issues, etc.

me too

I was willing to pay extra for --

1. No (or minute) problems with capatability
2. No (or minute) problems with viruses, mal-ware, spy-ware, etc.
3. Elegance

For me it was worth it. Absolutely not necessary as I have been
bumbling along with a PC for 20 years.

Chris

p.s. as far as hardware of the future -- if it's something
trully worthwhile I'm sure a version will soon be available
that you can plug into (the back of) the iMac.

Intel iMac 20
"refurb"

See as techster82 said that you will most probably be able to upgrade to the latest OS by Apple in about 5 years, you wouldn't be able to do that with a windows machine i bet you. Like they said that XP runs good with 512 MB of ram, now they are saying that Vista will run good with 1 GB of ram. See how it doubled. The next OS by Microsoft will probably require 2 GB of ram for good performance. As of Apple being in that time it will only require 512 MB or 1 GB for good performance.

After that its up to YOU.

I guess the alternative would be a big box system with expansion slots, something Apple is still working on.

Click to expand...

Actually, no. The PowerMac line is fairly upgradeable, including the Hard Drive, the Video Card and the PCI-E slots (3 of them). As for the processor being upgradeable, it's not likely for a variety of technical reasons. Granted the PM line can't run Bootcamp/Windows, and even the Quad G5 runs Virtual PC pretty poorly.

There WILL be an Intel based PowerMac replacement, likely by the end of this year. If that is what you want, then wait and see what comes out. Be forewarned though, it will be more expensive than the iMac, probably a fair amount more, but it will also likely be able to handle processor upgrades easier.

My two cents... and this might sound harsh to some.... but if you are on the fence at all, then you don't really want a Mac and a Mac probably isn't right for you. In my opinion, if you really wanted one, then you would have had one by now and would have got it from somewhere else... maybe even the Apple online store by now.

Reading up on them, trying them out, getting others' opinions on them, etc... are all good things, but if you are thinking even for a moment that you need to have someone else "push" you in one direction or another, then you may not be happy with a Mac. I am not saying that you are that way, but merely pointing out that one should not go with that route of thinking.

Just something to think about. :black:

Good luck with whatever choice you make!

baggss said:

Actually, no. The PowerMac line is fairly upgradeable, including the Hard Drive, the Video Card and the PCI-E slots (3 of them). As for the processor being upgradeable, it's not likely for a variety of technical reasons. Granted the PM line can't run Bootcamp/Windows, and even the Quad G5 runs Virtual PC pretty poorly.

There WILL be an Intel based PowerMac replacement, likely by the end of this year. If that is what you want, then wait and see what comes out. Be forewarned though, it will be more expensive than the iMac, probably a fair amount more, but it will also likely be able to handle processor upgrades easier.

Click to expand...

This is what I meant. The PowerMac line has not been replaced yet with an Intel based product, but they're working on it. That would be the Mac I would really want, but it would come at a very steep price I'm sure.

D3v1L80Y said:

My two cents... and this might sound harsh to some.... but if you are on the fence at all, then you don't really want a Mac and a Mac probably isn't right for you. In my opinion, if you really wanted one, then you would have had one by now and would have got it from somewhere else... maybe even the Apple online store by now.

Reading up on them, trying them out, getting others' opinions on them, etc... are all good things, but if you are thinking even for a moment that you need to have someone else "push" you in one direction or another, then you may not be happy with a Mac. I am not saying that you are that way, but merely pointing out that one should not go with that route of thinking.

Just something to think about. :black:

Good luck with whatever choice you make!

Click to expand...

I wasn't really looking for a push, this was more of a vent. I'm convinced about the mac OS, the ease of use, etc... Plus with Bootcamp I'm not giving anything up with Windows. We also like the design, lack of box (although see my reply above), the software.