"Microsoft collapsing under its own weight..."

Is it ever great to see Microsoft as the target of the press instead of the usual doom and gloom about Apple:http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9308/.

It's true... and funny. I was hearing a debate on the radio about how they speculate the delay and unstable Vista could be the death of Windows.

I'm hoping that this Christmas season we will have many more mac users. I'm really curious to see how Vista is going to be when it ACTUALLY comes out.

Smeshy

I've gone Mac, and I ain't goin back!

*yawn*
More negative, Anti-MS propoganda.

Read the other 4 parts in the series, you might be surprised....

I switched.....

I won't go back you can't drag me!!!

Well I think Thurrott is an excellent writer and has been for a very long time now.
As far as I can see, he's also usually a pretty strong supporter of Windows and Microsoft in general. He's bashed Apple and the OS plenty in the past too....

I think this guy is just honest and realistic

TS1AWD said:

It's true... and funny. I was hearing a debate on the radio about how they speculate the delay and unstable Vista could be the death of Windows.

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Yer Windows is going to die and Mac OSX will take over.

I also date.

Kelly Brook
Cheryl Tweedy
Angelina Jolie
Michelle Ryan
Elisha Cuthbert
Britney Spears
Abi Titmuss
Sarah Harding
Beyonce Knowles
Charlotte Church
Eva Longoria
Jennifer Love Hewitt
Rachel Stevens
Lindsay Lohan
Carmen Electra
Lucy Pinder
Jennifer Ellison
Keira Knightley
Alyssa Milano
Christina Aguilera

but i told them no more, they are not good enough for me

Hah, thats hilarious. When Jessica Beal brought me my coffee this morning in bed and told me about this article I accidentally spilt it all over the sheets and burned myself in the process.

If major problems arise with Vista and for some reason you do not see it in one flavor or another, it is only going to hold back Microsoft for a little while. I am actually perfectly content with running XP Pro on my PC and will hold off until Vista or whatever it will be by then is ready to go.

What I don't get is people saying that Microsoft not coming out with a new OS will cause people to switch. I don't buy this at all and heres why: The average computer user only comes in contact with some flavor of Windows everyday, whether at work, school, or home. Microsoft won the OS battle years ago and has been able to come out with whatever product they want (no matter how crappy) and succeed with it because of this. What we must realize is that the majority of computer users will stay with Window's because it is all they use in their lives currently, and all they have ever known. The people you see making the switch are ones that have become fed up one way or another with windows, very creative people who utilize the special Apple software, or are like me, total geeks who want to learn about every OS out there.

Scenario: The average consumer opens up the Sunday paper, and pulls out the CompUSA ad. They need a new family computer so they decide to take a look at the current sales. One page has a HP desktop with Monitor for lets say, $700. On the opposite page they see an Apple imac for $1300. They don't know what this Apple thing is, or why it costs almost double, so they decide to go pick up the PC. Most people do not care how stable OS X is, how many additional features it has over Windows, or just how da** pretty the machines are. They want to be able to feel comfortable and not have a perceived learning curve in front of them. Until Apple figures out someway to attract people in masses, they will stay in the same rut they have been in. (Yes, Apple may be content in this "rut" but adding hundreds of thousands of new users can't be bad for them). I guess what I am getting at is that Apple users are not the average consumer. I would also guess to say that the intelligence level of Apple consumers is much higher than that of PC users. It is just a different group of people, and thats fine, but it will never attract the masses.

Microsoft is having a major "mid-life crisis" as they struggle to be perceived as a "leader" and an "innovator."

Meanwhile, they're pulling in billions of dollars of profit, and have held onto their 85+% market share in the OS and office suite market.

MS may be dazed and confused, but it's not dead or even mildly sick.

techster82 said:

What I don't get is people saying that Microsoft not coming out with a new OS will cause people to switch. I don't buy this at all and heres why: The average computer user only comes in contact with some flavor of Windows everyday, whether at work, school, or home. Microsoft won the OS battle years ago and has been able to come out with whatever product they want (no matter how crappy) and succeed with it because of this. What we must realize is that the majority of computer users will stay with Window's because it is all they use in their lives currently, and all they have ever known. The people you see making the switch are ones that have become fed up one way or another with windows, very creative people who utilize the special Apple software, or are like me, total geeks who want to learn about every OS out there.

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Actually, I disagree, but not completely. There are folks who are fed up with MS products are willing to try something new. There are those who, even on this forum, that have had enough of MSs cycle of promise and failure of delivery. You cite the Laptops on price, but you completely leave out products like the Mac Mini or the iMac, that ARE turning consumers heads, and now still allow them to cling to Windows if desired. The fact is that the "average" computer user is smarter than many give them credit for and many are willing to look at something different to escape the trap of MS.

Does this mean MS is going down? Certainly not, but it does mean Apple has the very real ability of gaining at least some market-share and increasing it's already HUGE user-base. Does this mean that Apple is going to suddenly beat MS at the OS game and become the leader? Certainly not, but the more MS stumbles the more consumers are going to look for some alternative.

There will always be hardcore PC fans who would never consider a Mac, and there is nothing wrong with that. There will always be the geeks who want to learn different thing and that is ok too. There is also an increasing number of average consumer who are willing to take a chance on something different and Apple is that something.

You basically repeated the majority of my thread. Maybe you were wanting to disagree with me so badly that you didn't really read my post. There is no doubt you are a huge hater of anything microsoft, but I would beg to differ that they have started a cycle of not delivering what they promise. Vista is the only example I can think of that starts this trend, and we are basing all of this on a piece of software that isn't even fully developed and has therefore not reached consumers at this point. You also made a comment about the imac and mini turning heads and letting people still cling to windows. If someone buys an Apple computer to just run window's they haven't really switched, they have only sold one more computer. This is the point I have been trying to make all along: Apple can increase their market share by promoting the use of window's to those who aren't interested in OS X. Yes, Apple has a very large customer base, but when you say it is huge, what are you comparing that too? If you used the total number of computer users as your starting point then Apple is pretty much a dot on the map. When Microsoft actually commits a stumble then we can talk about the effect it is having on Apple.

baggss said:

The fact is that the "average" computer user is smarter than many give them credit for and many are willing to look at something different to escape the trap of MS.

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No, they aren't.

techster82 said:

Vista is the only example I can think of that starts this trend.

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Sure, of course.

But then again, that's a pretty BIG example isn't it?
Really, when you're dealing with a project as large as developing a Windows OS....namely in this case, Windows Vista....If you make big promises, exciting promises...People expect results. If you slightly fail, but still achieve mostly what you set out to do.....Ok well, limited harm is done.
But from what we are seeing currently, in black and white fact....from what Microsoft set out to achieve here with this project, they have failed to meet many of their core promises and objectives.
In my humble opinion, with a project of that size and magnitude....that is a very large and impacting example.

I'm far from a "Huge hater of anything MS", but I don't particularly relish using Windows. I'm not sure what orifice you pulled that little tidbit from. Even if I were though, this is a Mac based forum, so who cares?

Apple is not trying to promote Windows to those not interested in MacOS, they are giving those who might not otherwise consider buying a Mac the ability to do and still fall back on Windows if they desire. You have already pointed out why no one would want to buy a Mac over some generic PC in the CopmUSA ad. I don't consider Apple selling an iMac that someone is just going to run Windows on as increasing market share, although it could be considered such from a purely hardware perspective. I consider Apple increasing market share when someone buys that iMac and decides to switch from windows to OSX. Apples user base is huge, not as big as MSs, but it is still quite large. Either way, they are continuing to pick up new users and expand that base. It may be slow, but it's there.

As far as MS stumbling, they already have. There are enough disgruntled MS users switching to Mac (and OSX) because of those crappy MS products you spoke of earlier. Many are just fed up with security. The fact that MS has even admitted that the best way to deal with some Malware infested PCs is just to reinstall the OS from scratch makes this point more or less indefensible. Apple claims that roughly half of all new Mac sales made at the retail stores are by "new users", in other words, those who do not currently use a Mac. Now I'm sure you just going to dismiss that figure as propaganda or fanboyism, but this is a case of MSs stumble directly impacting Apple and their sales. Many MS apologists, such as yourself, like to claim that this has no impact, but if it keeps Apples sales up, I'd say it does have an impact.

And lastly, if you bother to read the other 4 parts of the report on the site in question, he says a lot of good things about Vista and MS. Have you bothered to read them?

Microsoft is starting dig it's own grave.

Microsoft is FAR from dead- remember, they have more than 90% of the market?

Yes that may be so, but you can start to see some weekness, and a bit more support for Apple.

TS1AWD said:

It's true... and funny. I was hearing a debate on the radio about how they speculate the delay and unstable Vista could be the death of Windows.

Click to expand...

You're kidding. . .right? The "death" of Windows - you think the majority of businesses and users around the world are all of a sudden going to abandon Windows and MS because VISTA is delayed? I would venture that the great MAJORITY of XP users - dont even know VISTA is coming out.

The fact is that the "average" computer user is smarter than many give them credit for and many are willing to look at something different to escape the trap of MS.

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IF they think the current computer setup they have is a "trap".

baggss said:

Many are just fed up with security.

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Ive NEVER had a problem with security on my machine, despite the security flaws found in XP. And there are security holes in OSX - dont kid yourself that their arent. MAC's just arent high targets for hackers and malicious code spreaders.

Now I'm sure you just going to dismiss that figure as propaganda or fanboyism, but this is a case of MSs stumble directly impacting Apple and their sales.

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That would make sense - ONLY if the reason for buying a MAC was because of frustration with Windows. Nothing in the CNET article (I think it was CNET - maybe WIRED) suggests the motivating reasons for the new mac purchases.

MJGUK said:

from what Microsoft set out to achieve here with this project, they have failed to meet many of their core promises and objectives.

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According to who though? I've seen articles critcal of VISTA, and I've seen articles where the reviewer is in love with it, and what the final build will be like. You cant please everyone.